Jenksismyhero Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 28, 2013 -> 10:33 AM) Brandon Paul is the 2nd leading scorer in the B10 but he's regressed? Sounds like Malcolm Hill is legit. I'd stop worrying about what Weber did. Nunn is going off for Simeon the past few weeks as well. What happened to Mike Shaw? Since he committed as a junior, he hasn't done anything. High school or Illinois. And he had 4-5 terrible turnovers yesterday. He's not the same player he was in December. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 28, 2013 -> 10:27 AM) And yes, obviously the three ball is an issue. My point was more that it just doesn't matter anymore. Unless they're hitting 60% of their threes, they're still not good enough to beat the top 4-5 teams in the big ten. If they hit 40% of their threes against Michigan, Minnesota or Wisconsin, they still lose those games. Everyone in the conference knows they're weak inside and they don't run an offense at all. They've been exploited just like last year. Groce is to blame for part of that. I'm not seeing much adjustment. I mean, at some point it's just a lack of execution. But why aren't they running more designed plays? They've reverted back to last years offense where they just stand around and wait for someone to throw up a brick. Weber used to say they were fine when option A worked but they sucked at options B and C. Well, they're that same team again. They shot 40% from 3 vs. Butler and 42% agaisnt Gonzaga. In conference play, they are at 24.5%. That's nearly four 3's, or 12 points a game. That's a huge deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 28, 2013 -> 11:27 AM) Time will tell with Weber. I think what he admitted to during some of those last press conferences - that he coached and recruited not to lose/get the fans upset - are problems he won't have to deal with at KSU. I think they'll be a Purdue-like program in that they take character guys over skilled guys and after 2-3 years they develop into good players. Finishing in the top half of the conference will be much easier to do, and tourney appearances will be much easier to come by. But I guess we'll see in three years. And yes, obviously the three ball is an issue. My point was more that it just doesn't matter anymore. Unless they're hitting 60% of their threes, they're still not good enough to beat the top 4-5 teams in the big ten. If they hit 40% of their threes against Michigan, Minnesota or Wisconsin, they still lose those games. Everyone in the conference knows they're weak inside and they don't run an offense at all. They've been exploited just like last year. Groce is to blame for part of that. I'm not seeing much adjustment. I mean, at some point it's just a lack of execution. But why aren't they running more designed plays? They've reverted back to last years offense where they just stand around and wait for someone to throw up a brick. Weber used to say they were fine when option A worked but they sucked at options B and C. Well, they're that same team again. The offense was much better yesterday than it has been recently. They got quite a few open looks and there was more movement away from the ball. There was also a couple of really nice sets where our big men got the ball in position to score but they simply suck and don't finish. In one instance McClaurin got the ball in a position where most big men take it up and dunk but he isn't athletic enough to do it so he took an extra dribble and then tried to throw a pass to Egwu in traffic that resulted in a turnover. Later in the half they ran a set that ended up with Henry getting the ball on the block where all he needed to do was turn to his left shoulder and make a layup but his court awareness sucks and he didn't know where he was so he shoots a fadeaway that he missed instead. These guys just aren't very good basketball players and they fit together horribly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 28, 2013 -> 11:33 AM) Brandon Paul is the 2nd leading scorer in the B10 but he's regressed? Sounds like Malcolm Hill is legit. I'd stop worrying about what Weber did. Nunn is going off for Simeon the past few weeks as well. What happened to Mike Shaw? Since he committed as a junior, he hasn't done anything. High school or Illinois. Paul hasn't regressed from last year, he is the same player he has basically always been. Incredibly streaky and inconsistent on offense and good for at least 1 or 2 really stupid turnovers per game. His defense has also slipped in Big 10 play. And considering Weber single handedly destroyed Illinois basketball despite taking the program over when it was one of the two best programs in the Big 10, inheriting a ton of talent with the 2004-2005 team getting as much hype and media attention as any in the last 10 years, and the quality of the team for this year and next is mostly tied to Weber it is fair to talk about how awful he is. If we suck in year 3 under Groce then Groce will rightfully get all the blame. Edited January 28, 2013 by whitesoxfan99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jan 28, 2013 -> 10:48 AM) Paul hasn't regressed from last year, he is the same player he has basically always been. Incredibly streaky and inconsistent on offense and good for at least 1 or 2 really stupid turnovers per game. His defense has also slipped in Big 10 play. And considering Weber single handedly destroyed Illinois basketball despite taking the program over when it was one of the two best programs in the Big 10, inheriting a ton of talent with the 2004-2005 team getting as much hype and media attention as any in the last 10 years, and the quality of the team for this year and next is mostly tied to Weber it is fair to talk about how awful he is. If we suck in year 3 under Groce then Groce will rightfully get all the blame. He should have been fired 3-4 seasons ago. Like with football, the firing came too late and the effect is a longer rebuild. Edited January 28, 2013 by Jenksismybitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Weber left a lot to be desired, but I do not believe Richardson/Paul/Bertrand are bad players. We should be getting more out of them and we should have had it last season and before as well. I actually believe Abrams has progressed from last season, despite having slowed down since the beginning of the season. He plays an important role on a team where he is the only PG and he is our most productive dribble-drive player (Sorry Brandon, all we can hope for on your drives is a foul instead of a terrible shot/turnover). With that said, Weber has left us with VERY little in terms of the last couple recruiting classes. Egwu should become a good player and I've already mentioned Abrams who IMO is solid, but beyond that there is nothing. Groce has to provide very good players immediately because the recent recruiting has been terrible and the best performers (albeit underperformers) are graduating. Tough spot. At this point, I still find some culpability on the part of Groce but it is unclear how much of the problem is from some of these players having had poor coaching for too long. You can see fits and starts against these good teams where we play like we're well coached, but we always lose it. Also, Groce can shove that hedging on screens up his ass. It is very easy to scheme against and we have no defensive rotation to make up for it. Likewise with the constant switching, how many times do we need to see Egwu rack up fouls guarding a PG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Jan 28, 2013 -> 11:33 AM) Weber left a lot to be desired, but I do not believe Richardson/Paul/Bertrand are bad players. We should be getting more out of them and we should have had it last season and before as well. I actually believe Abrams has progressed from last season, despite having slowed down since the beginning of the season. He plays an important role on a team where he is the only PG and he is our most productive dribble-drive player (Sorry Brandon, all we can hope for on your drives is a foul instead of a terrible shot/turnover). With that said, Weber has left us with VERY little in terms of the last couple recruiting classes. Egwu should become a good player and I've already mentioned Abrams who IMO is solid, but beyond that there is nothing. Groce has to provide very good players immediately because the recent recruiting has been terrible and the best performers (albeit underperformers) are graduating. Tough spot. At this point, I still find some culpability on the part of Groce but it is unclear how much of the problem is from some of these players having had poor coaching for too long. You can see fits and starts against these good teams where we play like we're well coached, but we always lose it. Also, Groce can shove that hedging on screens up his ass. It is very easy to scheme against and we have no defensive rotation to make up for it. Likewise with the constant switching, how many times do we need to see Egwu rack up fouls guarding a PG? Yeah, or you end up with Richardson or Abrams guarding a center on the switch. That was stupid, and again, a lack of adjustment. Leonard leaving really hurt too. Had he stayed, this is an entirely different team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Hasn't Groce's reputation always been that he's a good, energetic recruiter who plays a player-friendly style, but his in-game coaching is fairly mediocre? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 28, 2013 -> 01:14 PM) Hasn't Groce's reputation always been that he's a good, energetic recruiter who plays a player-friendly style, but his in-game coaching is fairly mediocre? Hard to say, he was only a head coach for 4 years prior to getting the Illinois job and it isn't like anyone was watching a ton of Ohio basketball. He did a really good job in postseason play there but had pretty mediocre regular season results. Basketball is almost all about talent anyways. There are a few coaches that are able to consistently elevate their teams and a few coaches who consistently underachieve despite having talent but at the end of the day talent generally wins out as long as you are able to manage players and get them to play hard and play defense. I think we will know in year 3 whether Groce is the right guy for the Illinois job or not. I don't think that team will be great since unless something changes you will only have 2 upperclassmen worth a damn but you will have 3 years to evaluate his recruiting and he will have had a chance to implement his system to a pretty large number of his recruits since we have 5 commits in the 2013 class and I think they bring in 4 commits in the 2014 class (I expect that 2 of the 2011 kids will transfer after this year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) Read somewhere that Kentucky and North Carolina have agreed to a home-and-home. Too bad, as IU-UK would have been fun. I'm hoping we can get a home-and-home with Louisville still, or maybe Kansas. Georgetown also might be a good fit, especially with IU's recent recruiting success in the DC area. Edited January 28, 2013 by farmteam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jan 27, 2013 -> 06:42 PM) I honestly wouldn't care if no one from this roster was back next year except for Egwu and Abrams. We need roster turnover badly. There is legitimately one player on Illinois' entire roster that can dribble a basketball. Paul has gotten his pocket picked a ton lately. It will get there, just going to take longer than we'd like. Hopefully the freshman get a ton of minutes next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Michigan #1 in the AP poll. Last time my favorite school was number 1 was back in the Fab Five days. I was in 1st grade! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Lol Silver haired guy sitting next to Dakich stands up to tell after a foul. Dakich instinctively panics because his brain remembers Bobby Knight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 29, 2013 -> 06:51 PM) Lol Silver haired guy sitting next to Dakich stands up to tell after a foul. Dakich instinctively panics because his brain remembers Bobby Knight. Yeah, that was pretty funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Watching Wisconsin is painful. Hold the ball, jack a three, repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 29, 2013 -> 07:50 PM) Watching Wisconsin is painful. Hold the ball, jack a three, repeat. Even the 7 footers want to shoot 3's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 NC State, yuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 29, 2013 -> 07:50 PM) Watching Wisconsin is painful. Hold the ball, jack a three, repeat. What are they supposed to do? OSU's bench probably has more athleticism than most of the guys on Wisconsin. Right now they are playing like a mid major, when your best inside presence is Ryan Evans, you might as well let your guys who can shoot air it out. I thought this team wasnt even going to make the NCAA tournament. They are just doing anything to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 29, 2013 -> 08:39 PM) What are they supposed to do? OSU's bench probably has more athleticism than most of the guys on Wisconsin. Right now they are playing like a mid major, when your best inside presence is Ryan Evans, you might as well let your guys who can shoot air it out. I thought this team wasnt even going to make the NCAA tournament. They are just doing anything to survive. On offense? Play the ball inside out, OSU has zero interior defense. On defense, double team Thomas. Anyone who doesnt is retarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 They did play inside out, or at least tried to. Unfortunately Bergerren has regressed and Evans is the scariest ball handler in the post in the history of basketball. This is a really bad offense. Ryan Evans the "inside presence" was 1-10. Bergerren was 4-9. Hilariously Bergerren made more 3s, than 2s. Wisconsin shot 33% from 2 as compared to 39% from 3. Im sure there is some math guy saying that had Wisconsin just shot 3s they would have scored more points. Its shocking that they are even coming close in these games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Indiana State has a legit at large shot. Crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Bradley stormed floor vs IllSt. Even I think that's lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Noel with only 10 blocks tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjshoe04 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 29, 2013 -> 09:41 PM) Bradley stormed floor vs IllSt. Even I think that's lame. Yeah, they should be upset they didn't win by more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 29, 2013 -> 07:50 PM) Watching Illinois is painful. Run down, jack a three, repeat. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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