2012-2013 NCAA Basketball thread

[IlliniKrush]

It was always great when you would see an 80 year old husband and wife stand up and cheer with the students. I think we have the best homecourt advantage in the country, and there's no way that's biased. Regardless of where it ranks though, you're right -- when you simply have that many students in an arena it's going to get loud.

At least your 80 year olds show up to the game.

 

I've said many times I am jealous of that homecourt advantage. We have the largest stadium in the conference and the quietest fans. The games where this is no student section is about as loud as a 3rd tier HS game.

We can usually give you a run for your money. Half our A section people are rich idiots who don't show up. One thing they talked about yesterday Rock, did they move the student section away from behind the benches? There were games this year I swear it was like MSU, Michigan, etc where they were behind the benches.

 

Luckily, we'll get more students towards the floor with the new renovation project. If you haven't seen it, here's a look:

 

 

If you don't think I want them to "go win this f***ing thing" you're crazy. I bought $600 worth of tickets for the Indy Regional in October! But I also had delusions of an undefeated season at one point. And while this team has lost games I thought they should win, it just proves to me how tough it really is. The best coaches in the game who coached 30+ years have won the title no more than a handful of times. To look at IU and say it is a failure if they don't win it all is ridiculous. This team has been enjoyable to watch and regardless of how this turns out, that won't change. Will I be disappointed with an early exit, hell yes. But there are other good teams and all I have ever wanted for IU is to be one of them and to have a shot. Winning the whole thing is gravy and something to be celebrated, but not something to denigrate a team over. I sure as hell hope you don't remember your 2005 Illini that way! If so, that's very sad.

 

And this whole "it's IU, you knew they weren't going to be down for long" is a bunch of crap. All people have been spewing on here for the last several years is how IU is no longer a top program and that they haven't done anything in 25 years, blah blah blah. Now you're going to tell me we should have all known it was coming?

 

I'm sorry, but I get irritated when people sit on their couches and judge others without knowing the full story. I could care less whether you think Coach Crean is an a**hole, a great guy, an embarassment, or anything else. What you or anyone else thinks about "my" team means nothing to me. So forgive me if I have an opinion that doesn't jive with the masses that want to plaster something on TV and talk about how bad it is. Screw that. Coaches have beefs with each other. Should he have handled things differently, sure. But it's OVER. Why should anyone care? As soon at the first ball is thrown into the air Thursday, no one else will talk about it.

$600 of tickets, geez. Better hope they get that regional...

 

Honestly with how die hard you are I thought your stance would be different. I'll stand behind my "if they don't make the FF it's a failure." Have expectations, and hope they live up to them. That's how I was with Illinois. Do I look back on that season and hate it? No way. Still very disappointed they lost to a great UNC team. Like you said, FF is tough once you get there. But you could hear me saying with about 7 minutes left in Allstate Arena, "this whole season has been a waste, all this #1 stuff, all of it's irrelevant." And honestly, it would have been if they didn't make the FF. I'd always look back and say "yeah it was a fun season, but it was a bunch of nothing in the long run." It's the same thing with the Hawks right now. None of this matters unless they win the Stanley Cup. Maybe it's just me. To move it over to baseball, I don't look at the playoffs as "gravy" when the Sox make the playoffs. Go win the damn world series.

 

And no, it's not crap...IU eventually was going to get a coach in there that could snag some recruits and get some IU guys to stay home. In college basketball, it's not THAT hard once you get a few recruits in there. Sorry, I'm seeing too many people act like this is NW winning the BTT. One of my best friend's brother is an IU alum and a huge fan, he says that a lot of IU fans right now are just thrilled with the BT title and almost don't care what happens in the tournament. WTF? That just doesn't make sense.

 

As far as Crean...I'm FAR from the only one that thinks he's weird/arrogant/jerk, whatever you want to say about him. Sure coaches have beefs with each other, but I can't remember too many times a guy, after winning a title, goes out of his way on national tv to rub it in someone's face in the middle of the court. Whether you like it or not, just because it's IU doesn't mean it's not a news story or worth talking about. Your "why should anyone care" doesn't really do much...why should anyone care about anything?

Edited March 11, 2013 by IlliniKrush

[Rex Hudler]

My preseason prediction was exactly what happened if you go back and look at it. I would say most experts and IU fans had them losing 1 maybe 2 games in conference just like some of the more recent dominant B10 teams did.

 

 

I dont get your 49-1 point though, is that backwards?

 

 

Hey, at least we beat all other 11 teams in conference play though!

 

LOL, allow me to state that differently. opposing teams not named Indiana went 1-49 @ Mich, MSU and OSU. IU went 3-0.

[RockRaines]

I agree again. Something must be wrong here. lol

 

Conference will be too tough for anyone to walk through it even mostly unscathed.

Rex,

 

Here's me and you agreeing almost a year ago.

[ZoomSlowik]

That's the problem with numbers. They don't always tell the story. For Cody to have done the same thing as last year would have been a big improvement just based on how teams defended him. But by looking at the numbers, you'll miss that Cody has become a better passer, he has extended his range in a big way and he's a better defender. Cody doesn't care how much he scores if the team wins.

 

Watford has rebounded much better this year and been more consistent. He has struggled in the last few games, but he has been solid all year long as a 3rd or 4th option on this team.

 

Hulls has improved light years in the past two years. He is actually a very good off the ball defender and has improved greatly on the ball despite physical limitations. Hulls handles the ball and passes much, much better than even last year. When Hulls arrived, he was simply a catch and shoot 3 pt shooter. His release has gotten much quicker. He makes shots off the dribble, and off shot fakes moving inside the 3 pt line. To say he hasn't improved greatly is assinine.

 

Sheehey is a very good all-around player and defender. Stats don't tell half of what he does on the floor.

 

Teams have assistant coaches too. The Head Coach isn't responsible for the improvement of every player in any program more than motivating that player to work hard, improve their basketball IQ and choosing the right assistants to work with these guys every day. I'm not making this argument to say Crean is Top X, just to defend the fact these guys have gotten much better. Oladipo is a perfect example. His work ethic is as much responsible for anything, but don't you think it is the coach's job to cultivate that and give the player the tools to make himself better? I get the feeling that you think the Head Coach is having two hour individual sessions with each player every day. That doesn't happen anywhere.

 

Again, I never said none of these guys improved at all. Certainly their defense is better than last year on paper. My post was also specifically in response to another with a specific context, it's not like I compared him to Rick Barnes.

 

However, we're still talking about incremental improvements with basically everyone but Oladipo. You mention a bunch of offense-related improvements when they were basically as good last year even with Verdell Jones III as a starting guard instead of Ferrell. I'm not seeing any of those supposed huge improvements.

Edited March 11, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[RockRaines]

We can usually give you a run for your money. Half our A section people are rich idiots who don't show up. One thing they talked about yesterday Rock, did they move the student section away from behind the benches? There were games this year I swear it was like MSU, Michigan, etc where they were behind the benches.

 

Luckily, we'll get more students towards the floor with the new renovation project. If you haven't seen it, here's a look:

 

We moved them to behind the benches a few years ago and its made a huge difference, HOWEVER, its not for ALL games.

 

 

[whitesoxfan99]

That's the problem with numbers. They don't always tell the story. For Cody to have done the same thing as last year would have been a big improvement just based on how teams defended him. But by looking at the numbers, you'll miss that Cody has become a better passer, he has extended his range in a big way and he's a better defender. Cody doesn't care how much he scores if the team wins.

 

They might not tell the whole story but improvement generally shows up in the numbers whereas Zeller's assist rate has gone down and his assist to turnover rate from last year is also worse. He is also scoring less efficiently than as a freshman while not seeing his usage rate go up much at all.

 

I agree he has improved on defense though and he has also improved on the glass.

[RockRaines]

Indiana surely has some talent to compete in conference, and possibly the tourney, but uk has a TON more and better coaching.

 

I think IU fans are going to be surprised how different it is with the target back on your backs. It's a tough road through the Big Ten.

There are so many of us that missed on UK this year. LOL

[RockRaines]

They might not tell the whole story but improvement generally shows up in the numbers whereas Zeller's assist rate has gone down and his assist to turnover rate from last year is also worse. He is also scoring less efficiently than as a freshman while not seeing his usage rate go up much at all.

 

I agree he has improved on defense though and he has also improved on the glass.

He's kind of what he is in the college game at this point. IMO the NBA is alot less physical than the college game especially the Big Ten. He'll have a little more freedom for that jumper and his post game.

[Rex Hudler]

At least your 80 year olds show up to the game.

 

 

We can usually give you a run for your money. Half our A section people are rich idiots who don't show up. One thing they talked about yesterday Rock, did they move the student section away from behind the benches? There were games this year I swear it was like MSU, Michigan, etc where they were behind the benches.

 

Luckily, we'll get more students towards the floor with the new renovation project. If you haven't seen it, here's a look:

 

 

 

$600 of tickets, geez. Better hope they get that regional...

 

Honestly with how die hard you are I thought your stance would be different. I'll stand behind my "if they don't make the FF it's a failure." Have expectations, and hope they live up to them. That's how I was with Illinois. Do I look back on that season and hate it? No way. Still very disappointed they lost to a great UNC team. Like you said, FF is tough once you get there. But you could hear me saying with about 7 minutes left in Allstate Arena, "this whole season has been a waste, all this #1 stuff, all of it's irrelevant." And honestly, it would have been if they didn't make the FF. I'd always look back and say "yeah it was a fun season, but it was a bunch of nothing in the long run." It's the same thing with the Hawks right now. None of this matters unless they win the Stanley Cup. Maybe it's just me. To move it over to baseball, I don't look at the playoffs as "gravy" when the Sox make the playoffs. Go win the damn world series.

 

And no, it's not crap...IU eventually was going to get a coach in there that could snag some recruits and get some IU guys to stay home. In college basketball, it's not THAT hard once you get a few recruits in there. Sorry, I'm seeing too many people act like this is NW winning the BTT. One of my best friend's brother is an IU alum and a huge fan, he says that a lot of IU fans right now are just thrilled with the BT title and almost don't care what happens in the tournament. WTF? That just doesn't make sense.

 

As far as Crean...I'm FAR from the only one that thinks he's weird/arrogant/jerk, whatever you want to say about him. Sure coaches have beefs with each other, but I can't remember too many times a guy, after winning a title, goes out of his way on national tv to rub it in someone's face in the middle of the court. Whether you like it or not, just because it's IU doesn't mean it's not a news story or worth talking about. Your "why should anyone care" doesn't really do much...why should anyone care about anything?

 

$600 of tickets equates to 4 ticket for all sessions. $140 per ticket I think. Or something close. You're right, I'm sure as hell hoping they make it. I think yesterday all but guaranteed they'll be the #1 seed in the Midwest (I can only see one scenario where that might not happen) but they still have to win the first weekend. If they don't, I'll likely be scrambling to sell some tickets. It would be a long trip for me to come from Birmingham if IU is not in it. The others are all coming from Evansville, which isn't so bad.

 

If you looked at my earlier post, I agreed that the season would be deemed a major disappointment if they don't make the Final Four. I just don't like using words like failure and choke, etc. when talking about humans, especially young athletes. Maybe its the fact that I played college baseball and understand how freaking hard it is for everything to go right all the time. I've been part of teams that went farther than expected and teams that didn't make it as far as we thought we would. Sometimes it is simply the bounce of the ball (see Jordan Morgan's tip in yesterday) that can make the difference. I wish IU was good enough to beat everyone in the country by 30 and I'd never have to worry about it. That's just not realistic.

 

As far as other IU fans, I can't speak for them. I can say I have gotten satisfaction from this season regardless of what happens from here on out. But I'm not gonna lie and tell you how I ultimately feel about this team won't be affected by it. But even if we lose to a 16 seed, once I get over the embarrassment, I'll still have the enjoyment I got from this season. Of course, I'll be wondering what the f**k happened at the same time.

 

As far as the Crean thing. What others think of him doesn't mean squat to me. He got caught up in the heat of the moment and I will reiterate, none of us know the whole story. Did I wish it weren't being talked about today. Yeah. But will it change what I think about him or my team in the long run. Hell no.

 

[Rex Hudler]

Again, I never said none of these guys improved at all. Certainly their defense is better than last year on paper. My post was also specifically in response to another with a specific context, it's not like I compared him to Rick Barnes.

 

However, we're still talking about incremental improvements with basically everyone but Oladipo. You mention a bunch of offense-related improvements when they were basically as good last year even with Verdell Jones III as a starting guard instead of Ferrell. I'm not seeing any of those supposed huge improvements.

 

Perhaps you should watch more diligently. I can see a major improvement in many of these players and this team overall from last year. Trust me, if I thought they weren't improving, I'd have been b****ing from my couch all season. But they have gotten significantly better. This team is one of the most unselfish I have ever seen. Individual stats don't seem to mean much to them. They take what's given to them in a game. Sometimes that means Cody dominates and sometimes others see the limelight. Not saying they are perfect, but watching a team every game in detail will offer a lot more than someone who watches a few games and looks at stats.

[farmteam]

I dont see the "Hulls is a good defender" point at all. I see him as one of their largest weaknesses on defense. Hulls and Yogi make them incredibly vulnerable to teams with good physical guard play.

Yogi's actually gotten a lot better on the defensive end over the course of the year. You may not think that because of the Ohio St-IU game last week, but that really was the anomaly for Yogi.

[Rex Hudler]

They might not tell the whole story but improvement generally shows up in the numbers whereas Zeller's assist rate has gone down and his assist to turnover rate from last year is also worse. He is also scoring less efficiently than as a freshman while not seeing his usage rate go up much at all.

 

I agree he has improved on defense though and he has also improved on the glass.

 

And he is being defended in the post much more aggressively and has scored from a distance, showing range, which was not in his repertoire last year. I think the guy got a ton of hype and has played and improved very well through it. He didn't improve as much as Oladipo and he still has a ways to go in many areas. I think at times he felt like he had to do too much and rushed things.

 

All that said, I will say it right now, I think there is better than a 50% chance he comes back next year.

[whitesoxfan99]

And he is being defended in the post much more aggressively and has scored from a distance, showing range, which was not in his repertoire last year. I think the guy got a ton of hype and has played and improved very well through it. He didn't improve as much as Oladipo and he still has a ways to go in many areas. I think at times he felt like he had to do too much and rushed things.

 

All that said, I will say it right now, I think there is better than a 50% chance he comes back next year.

 

He isn't going to improve his draft stock by coming back another year. This year's draft is remarkably weak and he will go in the top 10. We will see if it is good as the hype but the 2013 high school class is supposed to be really good so you would likely see a ton of freshman pass him on the NBA radar.

[whitesoxfan99]

He's kind of what he is in the college game at this point. IMO the NBA is alot less physical than the college game especially the Big Ten. He'll have a little more freedom for that jumper and his post game.

 

That isn't even close to being true. The NBA doesn't allow the bulls*** holding and grabbing that you get away with in college but post play in the NBA is much more physical than in college. Really isn't even close.

[LittleHurt05]

I've said many times I am jealous of that homecourt advantage. We have the largest stadium in the conference and the quietest fans. The games where this is no student section is about as loud as a 3rd tier HS game.

 

It was almost ten years ago, but the one game I went to in Columbus had the atmosphere of a non-OKC NBA game.

[IlliniKrush]

It was almost ten years ago, but the one game I went to in Columbus had the atmosphere of a non-OKC NBA game.

I was there in 04 and 05, 05 was a good atmosphere only because it was essentially their national championship game. 04 was OK. The place is pretty huge, I always think of it as a smaller United Center.

[Rex Hudler]

He isn't going to improve his draft stock by coming back another year. This year's draft is remarkably weak and he will go in the top 10. We will see if it is good as the hype but the 2013 high school class is supposed to be really good so you would likely see a ton of freshman pass him on the NBA radar.

 

That's debatable only because I think with another year you will see him improve his range even more, including 3 pointers. I know its an exhibition, but he beat Hulls in a 3 point shooting contest earlier this year. It's a part of his game that has yet to develop (or surface). But I basically agree with you that he's already highly regarded so his stock can only improve so much.

 

The thing you and everyone else are missing is, it's not his NBA draft stock that would bring him back. The Zeller's are a different family and prioritize things differently. They value education first and foremost. Cody will graduate in 3 years so coming back another year will take care of that. How well off the family is, I'm not sure. Given the cost of living in Washington, IN, I'm sure they are doing quite well. But the money, glitz and fame of the NBA just doesn't fit with the family. Plus, from all reports, the kid loves the college life. They'll sit down at the end of the year and discuss his game, maturity level, enjoyment, education, etc. and decide. I'm not saying he will be back, but it will not surprise me if he does come back. He's not a typical kid and they aren't a typical family.

 

A side note, Cody's brother Luke and the family have started a non-profit business running basketball camps that teach life skills and leadership in addition to basketball. Here is a blip from the website.

 

MORE THAN A SPORTS CAMP

 

At DistinXion, we know that youth are our future, but we also know that it takes the entire community to lead, teach, and model for them the life skills that will help them make our future world a better place.

 

Amidst a society that is lacking character, honesty, and integrity we believe your children are the beginning of a new generation that will grow into DISTINCT athletes with DISTINCT character. And we want the honor of teaching them! Join our community, join our family, and LET’S BE DISTINCT!

 

They could be cashing in on their name right now and instead are starting a non-profit. DistinXion.org

Edited March 11, 2013 by Rex Hudler

[Balta1701]

I thought Zeller was supposed to have his degree wrapped up sometime around the end of this year's summer session?

[Rex Hudler]

I thought Zeller was supposed to have his degree wrapped up sometime around the end of this year's summer session?

 

On course for 2 1/2 years, from what I understand. But that would take a side step if he started going to NBA camps, etc and was drafted this year.

[Rex Hudler]

I'm hoping some of you will understand the dilemma I have and can help, even if you don't identify with the details. I know a lot can happen in the SEC Tournament and this could be a moot point. But I can't decide which would be the better of two scenarios...

 

1. Kentucky fails to make the NCAA Tournament

 

2. Kentucky is selected, but is relegated to a "play-in" game, only to lose and not be around for the first weekend, which most of us consider the real start to the tournament.

 

I just can't decide which one would make me happier. Help!

[IlliniKrush]

If I were you I'd take them not making it entirely, not risking the chance they could win a game or two and not have it be as embarrassing.

Edited March 11, 2013 by IlliniKrush

[zenryan]

I was always under the impression Rex was a Michigan fan.

[Rex Hudler]

If I were you I'd take them not making it entirely, not risking the chance they could win a game or two and not have it be as embarrassing.

 

I considered that and it definitely factors in. But how nice would it be to see them lose in the play in game and that be discussed for a couple of days. The play in game would almost be a slap in the face to Kentucky. There is more risk in that scenario though, I agree.

 

That said, I just looked at the SEC Tournament bracket and it will shock me if they don't make it to the championship game, which will get them in clearly. They'll have to beat the Vandy-Arkansas winner which is a given since the game won't be in Fayetteville. Then the winner of Missouri - Ole Miss. I guess Missouri can beat them, but they have yet to win a half way difficult game outside of Columbia this year so I'm not holding my breath.

[Rex Hudler]

I was always under the impression Rex was a Michigan fan.

 

Football only... most of my friends and many from Indiana are IU basketball fans and Notre Dame football fans. I chose a different path early on.

[Brian]

I was always under the impression Rex was a Michigan fan.

 

We kicked him outta the club for being too old and grouchy