2012-2013 NCAA Basketball thread

[southsider2k5]

If illegal recruits win a championship but nobody watches, can the title even be vacated?

 

The Marlins still have their titles...

[cabiness42]

Illegally recruiting in women's basketball is like illegally recruiting in full-contact chess.

 

Where's the financial gain?

 

She was making over $1M per year, right? I'd call that financial gain.

 

[Heads22]

sb,

 

Talked to a buddy over in MBB, said he didn't know if ISU was going after Uthoff or not. If he knew, he'd tell me.

 

I really don't think the ISU restriction makes any sense outside of Ryan thinking there was something fishy.

 

Also, Uthoff DID file an appeal but Wisconsin compliance mishandled it, I guess.

[Soxbadger]

Heads,

 

What appears happened is that Uthoff brought it the wrong person (an athletic director not the compliance director). He didnt deliver it to the compliance director, but Wisconsin is going to have a meeting with Uthoff on Thursday because he did give them a notice so they are going to honor it.

 

As for ISU, no one is sure what is going on. I cant see why Wisconsin wouldnt want ISU to get better at the detriment of Iowa, but it probably is because Hoiberg has been really successful at the transfer game.

 

Right now this seems like a lot of nonsense over Big 10 restrictions. I assume that if Uthoff had said he was fine with the Big 10 restrictions but wanted to visit ISU, Wisconsin may have let him. But I just cant see Wisconsin releasing him to play under scholarship at Indiana or Iowa (the 2 big 10 schools he is appealing on.)

 

I think Uthoff should have let the appeal process play out, instead of fighting the battle in the press.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Soxbadger]

Here is Bo's version:

 

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball...ential-transfer

 

I personally think these are the most interesting parts:

 

Ryan said he sought out council from other coaches on how to handle a transfer since he said he can only remember one other similar situation in his career. He cited the example of Minnesota's Colton Iverson, who wasn't allowed to transfer within the Big Ten. Iverson ended up at Colorado State.

 

Ryan, who was returning from a recruiting trip Wednesday, said he told Uthoff that he would fly back from a trip last week with his wife to meet with Uthoff. But the offer wasn't accepted. Ryan said he hasn't met with Uthoff, but wanted to so he could hear why he wanted to leave.

 

The second part really stands out. Uthoff wouldnt even meet face to face with Bo, yet he has people trashing Wisconsin in the newspaper.

 

Come on now.

[Heads22]

Heads,

 

What appears happened is that Uthoff brought it the wrong person (an athletic director not the compliance director). He didnt deliver it to the compliance director, but Wisconsin is going to have a meeting with Uthoff on Thursday because he did give them a notice so they are going to honor it.

 

As for ISU, no one is sure what is going on. I cant see why Wisconsin wouldnt want ISU to get better at the detriment of Iowa, but it probably is because Hoiberg has been really successful at the transfer game.

Right now this seems like a lot of nonsense over Big 10 restrictions. I assume that if Uthoff had said he was fine with the Big 10 restrictions but wanted to visit ISU, Wisconsin may have let him. But I just cant see Wisconsin releasing him to play under scholarship at Indiana or Iowa (the 2 big 10 schools he is appealing on.)

 

I think Uthoff should have let the appeal process play out, instead of fighting the battle in the press.

 

If that reason that you think was the actual reason, that's a f***ing awful reason.

[He_Gawn]

LOL Florida has now been added to the "no transfer list". What a freakin' joke, Bo. Sack up, you're the "adult" in this situation.

[Jenksismyhero]

So Bo just had a pretty long interview with Mike & Mike and he really didn't help his case at all. He was dodging the most important question (which was asked about 6 times in different ways) - why does this rule exist? What's the purpose of blocking a kid from transferring? Isn't this unfair? His response was basically (1) there's a rule, so I can and (2) some nonsense about "being in the trenches" with players/coaches.

 

At the end of the day I feel bad for Ryan/Wisconsin, because this is just becoming a big story for no good reason. They're not the first program to do this, they're not the worst at it and they're not breaking any rules. The whole story has taken on a life of it's own. But still, the fact that he couldn't at least say "look, we have a way of running things here, and i'm not about to just let one of my players go to a competing team, a team we might face or a team we battle on the recruiting trail, and lose that competitive advantage. You think Coach K would allow one of his players to transfer up to Chapel Hill without question?"

 

I also found it interesting that Mike & Mike repeatedly kept bashing him with "but this makes no sense, let him transfer wherever he wants!" and then they immediately admit that it's ok to have inter-conference blocks. So, obviously there's a good reason that exists to block these guys, and i'm surprised Bo didn't hit back with that.

[GoodAsGould]

I can understand him blocking the kid from transferring within the conference but the other schools are just out of spite and for that I lose all respect for the man.

[LittleHurt05]

LOL Florida has now been added to the "no transfer list". What a freakin' joke, Bo. Sack up, you're the "adult" in this situation.

 

Wisconsin starts a home & home with Florida next year, so that's why I guess. Of course, the kid would have to sit out next year, so he couldn't play in that game anyway, lol.

[LittleHurt05]

Wow, the Twitter-verse is absolutely destroying Bo Ryan after that interview this morning. My personal favorite:

 

Andy Glockner ‏ @AndyGlockner

@SethDavisHoops Per one of my tweeps, if Wisconsin makes the 2014 NCAA Tournament, they could face any D-I team. Nationwide ban from Bo?

 

 

[Soxbadger]

Heads,

 

Bo called a bunch of coaches, they all told him to restrict the closest schools, ISU was one of them. It wasnt spite or anything, Bo just has never had a kid want to transfer before. This was his first time, so he did what other coaches suggested he do.

 

ISU doesnt make any sense unless they believe there is tampering, I would have no problem with him transferring to ISU, provided there is no tampering.

 

Jenks,

 

why does this rule exist? What's the purpose of blocking a kid from transferring? Isn't this unfair? His response was basically (1) there's a rule, so I can and (2) some nonsense about "being in the trenches" with players/coaches.

 

Its pretty simple why the rule exists, if it didnt exist every good player would be constantly recruited by UNC, Duke, Kansas etc.

 

Oh you blew up last year at no name U, why dont you transfer to our program?

 

The rule exists to protect the Universities which is why the NCAA wants the rule. The recruiting game before college is terrible, no one wants that to continue through college, in fact most people want there to be less recruiting nonsense. By having this rule, you put a "deadline" on recruiting. After the LOI, the player is locked in to that team.

 

Why does the NBA have contracts for rookies? Why cant the rookie just go anywhere they want after the first year?

 

Its the exact same answer.

 

The fact its even news is nonsense, the rules clearly allow a team to restrict, Wisconsin is restricting. If you dont want players to be bound, petition the NCAA. There is a reason why no coach is coming out against Ryan, its because they all want to make sure that they can restrict in the future.

 

Do you really think if I tomorrow go work for MAC, that they would let me leave and take all their ideas to Microsoft? You dont think there would be any restriction on my employment?

 

Its silly. All the NCAA has to do is change the rule: "You can only restrict in conference, within X miles of school or to a school you play within 1 calendar year", that way its clear.

 

I just wonder why no one is commenting about Danny Manning and his restrictions?

[Soxbadger]

Here is an interesting article on transfers:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball...nd-restrictions

 

As you can see, almost every coach does what Bo Ryan did.

 

The most interesting is:

 

Evan Smotrycz (Michigan) -- Not able to go to another Big Ten school or any team that has been scheduled for the next two years.

 

Now the only reason Bo put the ACC was because of the Big 10 - ACC challenge. Most people believe that had Uthoff actually asked Bo to go to an ACC school he would have let him. The problem is Uthoff never spoke with Ryan, so Ryan had no idea that he was upset about these restrictions.

 

Today Uthoff and Bo are meeting, my guess is that after they speak, everyone is happy and moves on. It just was a problem because Uthoff refused to use the proper Wisconsin channels and therefore it appeared to Wisconsin that Uthoff was being dishonest about the process.

[southsider2k5]

Here is an interesting article on transfers:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball...nd-restrictions

 

As you can see, almost every coach does what Bo Ryan did.

 

The most interesting is:

 

Evan Smotrycz (Michigan) -- Not able to go to another Big Ten school or any team that has been scheduled for the next two years.

 

Now the only reason Bo put the ACC was because of the Big 10 - ACC challenge. Most people believe that had Uthoff actually asked Bo to go to an ACC school he would have let him. The problem is Uthoff never spoke with Ryan, so Ryan had no idea that he was upset about these restrictions.

 

Today Uthoff and Bo are meeting, my guess is that after they speak, everyone is happy and moves on. It just was a problem because Uthoff refused to use the proper Wisconsin channels and therefore it appeared to Wisconsin that Uthoff was being dishonest about the process.

 

That is an awful lot of assumptions for a guy who likes the facts so much.

 

[Soxbadger]

SS2k,

 

Well Im not privileged enough to be in the Wisconsin inner circle, so I cant say 100%, but I can quote what Ryan has said:

 

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketbal...jarrod-uthoffs-

 

“Nobody’s trying to hurt anybody. If the kid doesn’t want to talk to you about a transfer, just do us a favor and go tell the administrator,” Ryan said Thursday. “All we were saying is, 'If you want to go to one of these schools, come in and talk.' He doesn’t have to talk to me, but you can talk to a representative of our school.”

 

Ryan told Sporting News merely cutting loose Uthoff with a blanket release “would have been the easy thing to do. I’m not looking for easy. There was no mistreatment.” He said it's conceivable the school could decide to lift the transfer restrictions entirely.

 

 

Ryan says Uthoff has some responsibility “to your teammates, to your school, to the people who in good faith recruited him.” All Ryan seeks is an explanation. It does not seem much to ask.

 

 

 

So as I said, if Uthoff would have followed the procedures, Wisconsin may have granted him a full release.

 

Its unfortunate that Uthoff didnt want to speak directly with Bo and didnt file his appeal correctly. But that cant be blamed on Wisconsin, all Bo Ryan was asking from Uthoff was to meet with him or the adminstration so that they could discuss the transfer and if there should be any restrictions.

 

Is that so unreasonable?

Edited April 19, 2012 by Soxbadger

[southsider2k5]

SS2k,

 

Well Im not privileged enough to be in the Wisconsin inner circle, so I cant say 100%, but I can quote what Ryan has said:

 

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketbal...jarrod-uthoffs-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So as I said, if Uthoff would have followed the procedures, Wisconsin may have granted him a full release.

 

Its unfortunate that Uthoff didnt want to speak directly with Bo and didnt file his appeal correctly. But that cant be blamed on Wisconsin, all Bo Ryan was asking from Uthoff was to meet with him or the adminstration so that they could discuss the transfer and if there should be any restrictions.

 

Is that so unreasonable?

 

It sounds an awful lot like he is trying intimidate the kid and punish him for leaving.

[Soxbadger]

Oh, so if I quit my job today by phone, I should be able to cry to the media that my employer wont give me a letter of recommendation or release me from my non-compete agreement?

 

Its interesting that you seem to believe that there should be absolutely no ramifications for wanting out of a scholarship. Wisconsin spent a good amount of money on Uthoff this year, he wont have to repay a cent, yet he is the victim.

 

I hope one day my kid is the victim of an elite academic institution who invests tens of thousands of dollars into them and then when my kid spurns them in complete disrespect, still allows them to receive financial aid from every other institution except 30.

 

That truly is a horror story, how could my kid survive!?

[southsider2k5]

Oh, so if I quit my job today by phone, I should be able to cry to the media that my employer wont give me a letter of recommendation or release me from my non-compete agreement?

 

Its interesting that you seem to believe that there should be absolutely no ramifications for wanting out of a scholarship. Wisconsin spent a good amount of money on Uthoff this year, he wont have to repay a cent, yet he is the victim.

 

I hope one day my kid is the victim of an elite academic institution who invests tens of thousands of dollars into them and then when my kid spurns them in complete disrespect, still allows them to receive financial aid from every other institution except 30.

 

That truly is a horror story, how could my kid survive!?

 

Bo should probably realize that every 14-18 year old he is talking to is watching this go down, and thinking what if it were me. Punishing the kid for being 18 and immature isn't a great way to convince other kids that you will take care of them. There is more than I AM RIGHT in this case. Ryan is an idiot if he can't see the forest for the trees here. I get you trying to spin this Wisconson's way as an alum and obvious partisan, but this is going to hurt the school way more than if he had just let the kid walk away. All continually berating him publicly serves to do is scare off other unsure kids.

[Soxbadger]

Maybe it does, maybe it doesnt. But as a Wisconsin alumni, I do not want Wisconsin to give into the media hypocrisy. If you dont like transfer restrictions, attack the Big East, attack OSU, attack Michigan, attack every single school in the nation who restricts transfers.

 

Maybe it hurts recruiting, maybe Wisconsin never wins another basketball game. If that is the case, so be it, I stand behind Bo Ryan.

 

Bo Ryan has never pulled a scholarship from any athlete, in his entire time at Wisconsin only 1 player has ever transferred, no players have ever lost scholarships. In fact one player, http://www.hometeamsonline.com/teams/defau...p;coachID=22409, never even stepped on the court, yet still received a full ride from Bo Ryan.

 

So if everything Bo Ryan has done for Wisconsin, is lost because of Uthoff, so be it. You do not bend to the media when they are wrong, you do not change who you are because of how many people may yell.

 

The players Bo Ryan recruits, know Bo Ryan. Bo Ryan has never taken a scholarship away, he makes a commitment to the play for 4 or 5 years no matter what, and Bo wants players who will make that same agreement. If a player is unsure about it, if they are not willing to stand by their word, dont come to Wisconsin.

 

There are plenty of kids who would die for a free ride to a great university. Wisconsin to me isnt about winning basketball games or football games, if they never win another basketball game, Ill still be a Wisconsin fan.

[southsider2k5]

Trust me, I met Bo Ryan before you did, I guarantee it.

[Soxbadger]

What does that have to do with anything?

 

I mean that honestly.

 

It seems that no one wants to actually discuss the issue, should schools be allowed to restrict transfers?

 

I believe they should be able to. This goes for any school. Now I could agree with a rule that says you cant restrict like Manning is in Tulsa (allegedly only 3 schools), but I definitely think a school should be allowed to restrict anyone in their conference and anyone on their schedule.

[southsider2k5]

What does that have to do with anything?

 

I mean that honestly.

 

It seems that no one wants to actually discuss the issue, should schools be allowed to restrict transfers?

 

I believe they should be able to. This goes for any school. Now I could agree with a rule that says you cant restrict like Manning is in Tulsa (allegedly only 3 schools), but I definitely think a school should be allowed to restrict anyone in their conference and anyone on their schedule.

 

In other words I know his background. You don't need to beat me over the head with how awesometastic Bo Ryan is. I met him when he was still at UWP.

 

I also don't think holding an 18 year old hostage is a good idea for business.

[cabiness42]

What does that have to do with anything?

 

I mean that honestly.

 

It seems that no one wants to actually discuss the issue, should schools be allowed to restrict transfers?

 

I believe they should be able to. This goes for any school. Now I could agree with a rule that says you cant restrict like Manning is in Tulsa (allegedly only 3 schools), but I definitely think a school should be allowed to restrict anyone in their conference and anyone on their schedule.

 

Anyone in their conference? Absolutely

 

Anyone on their schedule? I can buy that in football but not in basketball. Losing one game because you let a guy transfer to a second-tier ACC team isn't going to make or break your chances at winning the NCAA tournament.

[southsider2k5]

Anyone in their conference? Absolutely

 

Anyone on their schedule? I can buy that in football but not in basketball. Losing one game because you let a guy transfer to a second-tier ACC team isn't going to make or break your chances at winning the NCAA tournament.

 

Like someone said before, you had better ban all schools, because you might have to play them in the tourney.

[Soxbadger]

The problem is that no one will agree to that rule. If Zeller wanted to transfer from Indiana to Kentucky, I cant imagine Crean saying yes, thats just bad for business.

 

In a perfect world the rule would only ban in conference and maybe 1 or 2 protected rivals, but there is just no way the NCAA will agree to that.

 

The ACC may be extreme, but the argument "Why not ban all DI" is just a straw man. Bo Ryan isnt going out of his way to be vindictive, if he was, he would have restricted Creighton, UNI, teams that Uthoff had interest in during the recruitment process.

 

Maybe a system like jury selection would work, your conference is automatic (unless the school waives it) and you get 5-10 other schools (rivals etc). That would give the school the ability to restrict but allow more freedom.