2012-2013 NCAA Basketball thread

[Dick Allen]

I'm not saying they will do it, I'm saying if they want a competitive basketball program they have to do it.

 

I know they promised Tubby new facilities -- I'm curious if the fact that there's a different AD now (Norwood Teague, the guy who hired Anthony Grant and Shaka Smart at VCU) will change that. I'm hopeful it will, but I have my doubts.

Supposedly he and Tubby were feuding because Tubby kept asking about the upgrades.

[Brian]

Trey Burke POY

[farmteam]

Trey Burke POY

Right choice, IMO.

[Kyyle23]

Goodbye Rutgers AD Peretti. Goodbye Rice Jr. Supposedly the Rutgers president is next on the chopping block

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Rodney Purvis transferring to UConn

[Boogua]

Deshaun Thomas announces that he's going pro. Not sure how his game translates to the NBA game. It should be interesting.

[RockRaines]

Deshaun Thomas announces that he's going pro. Not sure how his game translates to the NBA game. It should be interesting.

Shooter/rebounder/scorer. He has 1 kid and another on the way.

 

Think Wayman Tisdale

[Boogua]

Shooter/rebounder/scorer. He has 1 kid and another on the way.

 

Think Wayman Tisdale

I would say that would be his absolute peak. I honestly don't think he'll ever even have a season where he gets to Tisdale's career averages of 15 and 6, let alone some of his peak years.

 

What position is he going to play? He's too small to play the four and he isn't quick or athletic enough to play the three. He shot 44.5% from the field and 34.5% from 3, so I wouldn't exactly call him a shooter either. He's a scorer, but his size and athleticism are pretty huge red flags. Will he even be drafted?

[RockRaines]

I would say that would be his absolute peak. I honestly don't think he'll ever even have a season where he gets to Tisdale's career averages of 15 and 6, let alone some of his peak years.

 

What position is he going to play? He's too small to play the four and he isn't quick or athletic enough to play the three. He shot 44.5% from the field and 34.5% from 3, so I wouldn't exactly call him a shooter either. He's a scorer, but his size and athleticism are pretty huge red flags. Will he even be drafted?

Right now he's projected late first early second

 

Indiana hs 3rd highest all time leading scorer

2nd highest leading scorer for 3 years at osu

Top scorer in top conference in college

 

 

I'd say he'll be perfectly fine. He's scored on everyone that guarded him so clearly your red flags are overstated. He won't be an allstar but he'll post up 3's and stretch 4's from the bench. Very valuable in the NBA.

Edited April 5, 2013 by RockRaines

[RockRaines]

Looking at history, Matta has had now 8 guys go pro early, all have been first rounders.

 

Michael Redd is the last early entry I can remember not being a first rounder.

[Boogua]

Right now he's projected late first early second

 

Indiana hs 3rd highest all time leading scorer

2nd highest leading scorer for 3 years at osu

Top scorer in top conference in college

 

 

I'd say he'll be perfectly fine. He's scored on everyone that guarded him so clearly your red flags are overstated. He won't be an allstar but he'll post up 3's and stretch 4's from the bench. Very valuable in the NBA.

Clearly they're overstated? I'm sure people said the same thing about Michael Beasley, except he was much more dominant, a better shooter, and is taller than Thomas.

 

Just because you're a good scorer in high school and college doesn't mean you're going to be a good scorer in the pros. Adam Morrison anyone? There are numerous examples of this.

 

Deshaun Thomas is a terrible defender. Is he going to guard 3s or 4s in the pros? Maybe they have to shift to zone? There's also no way of knowing how effectively he'll be able to post up NBA guys. I think my red flags are clearly *not* overstated considering the man who is the Indiana hs 3rd highest all time leading scorer, was the 2nd highest leading scorer for 3 years at osu, and was the top scorer in the top conference in college is projected as a second round pick (Chad Ford couldn't find one scout or GM that had Thomas in their top 30)

[RockRaines]

Yes, clearly, especially your horrible "will he even be drafted" comment. The guy is projected late 1st early second and yet you dont think he'll even be selected.

 

The Adam Morrison example is incredibly spot on though, I mean Gonzaga basically plays in the Big Ten but slight further west.

 

I guess you havent watch much of him this year, but he's developed into a better defender yet still below average. He will be guarding a 3 or a 4 from off the bench. He played the 3, 4 and 5 at OSU through conference play this year. Unless he plays for the Bulls (not likely) he will be fine defending in the NBA.

 

I guess we'll see with all the expert opinions. Sullinger wasnt going to translate and he ended up coming on and starting for the Celtics before he got hurt.

[Boogua]

Yes, clearly, especially your horrible "will he even be drafted" comment. The guy is projected late 1st early second and yet you dont think he'll even be selected.

 

The Adam Morrison example is incredibly spot on though, I mean Gonzaga basically plays in the Big Ten but slight further west.

 

I guess you havent watch much of him this year, but he's developed into a better defender yet still below average. He will be guarding a 3 or a 4 from off the bench. He played the 3, 4 and 5 at OSU through conference play this year. Unless he plays for the Bulls (not likely) he will be fine defending in the NBA.

 

I guess we'll see with all the expert opinions. Sullinger wasnt going to translate and he ended up coming on and starting for the Celtics before he got hurt.

Chad Ford has him projected as a mid to late second round pick/undrafted. So it's not that far-fetched. So no, not clearly.

 

Yeah, because Morrison wouldn't have done well in any other conference. He played a B1G team in Maui that year I think. He put up what, 43? If you don't think Morrison would have played well in any conference that year I don't know what to tell you. That is just absurd. His last game he played a UCLA team chock full of NBA players and still went 10-17 with 24 points. I can't believe that's what you got out of the Morrison comparison. Fair enough though.

 

He is a very below average defender. I'm sure he's gotten better, but he's still way below average. Sometimes he doesn't even try.

 

Sullinger would have been drafted higher if he didn't have injury concerns. He also averaged 3.8 PPG and 4 RPG in the 5 games when he started. Yes, he clearly transitioned well to the NBA.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Boogua

[RockRaines]

Chad Ford has him projected as a mid to late second round pick/undrafted. So it's not that far-fetched. So no, not clearly.

 

Yeah, because Morrison wouldn't have done well in any other conference. He played a B1G team in Maui that year I think. He put up what, 43? If you don't think Morrison would have played well in any conference that year I don't know what to tell you. That is just absurd. His last game he played a UCLA team chock full of NBA players and still went 10-17 with 24 points. I can't believe that's what you got out of the Morrison comparison. Fair enough though.

 

He is a very below average defender. I'm sure he's gotten better, but he's still way below average. Sometimes he doesn't even try.

 

Sullinger would have been drafted higher if he didn't have injury concerns. He also averaged 3.8 PPG and 4 RPG in the 5 games when he started. Yes, he clearly transitioned well to the NBA.

Sullinger averaged 7 and 7 in 23 min in Jan before his back went out. Funny enough his back hurt him enough in his last few games to have surgery.

 

And no, I dont think Morrison would be a dominant force in this years Big Ten. I dont think Olynk would either FWIW.

 

Your opinions are great, I hope to see more of them, however I dont think you've watched enough of Thomas this season. He will be a good bench player in the NBA, thats about it. If he goes undrafted I will be the first to say I am wrong, however thats pretty far fetched as of today.

 

Also I dont look at Chad Ford's lists. They are usually far fetched at this point. I believe he has guys like GR3 as lottery picks. I dont think thats very accurate at this point.

Edited April 5, 2013 by RockRaines

[whitesoxfan99]

Sullinger averaged 7 and 7 in 23 min in Jan before his back went out. Funny enough his back hurt him enough in his last few games to have surgery.

 

And no, I dont think Morrison would be a dominant force in this years Big Ten. I dont think Olynk would either FWIW.

 

Your opinions are great, I hope to see more of them, however I dont think you've watched enough of Thomas this season. He will be a good bench player in the NBA, thats about it. If he goes undrafted I will be the first to say I am wrong, however thats pretty far fetched as of today.

 

Also I dont look at Chad Ford's lists. They are usually far fetched at this point. I believe he has guys like GR3 as lottery picks. I dont think thats very accurate at this point.

 

Disagree on Morrison. He sucked in the NBA but that guy would have scored in bunches against the Big 10. He scored 43 against MSU, 43 against a really good Washington team with Brandon Roy, 34 against a Memphis team that won 33 games and made the Elite 8, 25 on Maryland, 24 on UCLA, etc.

[Boogua]

Sullinger averaged 7 and 7 in 23 min in Jan before his back went out. Funny enough his back hurt him enough in his last few games to have surgery.

 

And no, I dont think Morrison would be a dominant force in this years Big Ten. I dont think Olynk would either FWIW.

 

Your opinions are great, I hope to see more of them, however I dont think you've watched enough of Thomas this season. He will be a good bench player in the NBA, thats about it. If he goes undrafted I will be the first to say I am wrong, however thats pretty far fetched as of today.

 

Also I dont look at Chad Ford's lists. They are usually far fetched at this point. I believe he has guys like GR3 as lottery picks. I dont think thats very accurate at this point.

We can agree to disagree on Morrison. He showed what he could do against high level athletes at the collegiate level. That UCLA team had current NBA players on it and it's not as though Morrison had a ton of help. Would he have averaged 27 per game or whatever in the current B1G? Probably not, but I think 20 PPG would have been easy for him.

 

If you're looking for 15 game sample sizes where Sullinger averaged 7 and 7 I think it's safe to say he didn't transition all that well.

 

I've watched an okay amount of Ohio State games. Two of my better friends are Ohio State fans. He seems to have a decent amount of trouble defending the pick and roll. That's not going to help him at the next level.

 

And I think he gets drafted. Pretty much the whole draft after the first 10 or so picks are pretty meh usually. I mean, Ronaldo Balkman was taken #20 one year. I just disagree with the whole being a good bench player part. I think he has a better chance at being in the NBDL (or Europe) in 5 years than being a regular rotation guy. He'll probably stick around for a while as the 11th guy off the bench that has an occasional scoring outburst of 10 points though.

 

This is obviously all speculation though and I know you're sticking up so hard for him because you're a big Ohio State guy. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out though.

[RockRaines]

Disagree on Morrison. He sucked in the NBA but that guy would have scored in bunches against the Big 10. He scored 43 against MSU, 43 against a really good Washington team with Brandon Roy, 34 against a Memphis team that won 33 games and made the Elite 8, 25 on Maryland, 24 on UCLA, etc.

I dont think he ends up as a top 3 scorer in the Big Ten this season. He obviously couldnt get much going against athletes in the NBA.

[RockRaines]

This is obviously all speculation though and I know you're sticking up so hard for him because you're a big Ohio State guy. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out though.

Actually if you look at the NCAA threads I am tougher on him than most folks, I just dont think you've watched much of him other than the occasional game or a few his first few years. As the only scoring option he forces it at times which hurts his percentages, however nobody has shown the ability to shut him down regardless of who was guarding him. And thats in the best defensive conference in America with coaches who have been game planning against him for 3 years. The NBA game will suit him because of open looks. He'll be a good stretch 4, post up 3 coming off the bench for stretches of time. Probably nothing more than that. The guy has this knack or 6th sense for finding the ball and scoring it, its hard to explain unless you watch the guy play alot.

[Boogua]

I dont think he ends up as a top 3 scorer in the Big Ten this season. He obviously couldnt get much going against athletes in the NBA.

Athletes in the NBA>>>>>>>> athletes in this year's B1G. Also no team in the B1G this year had more NBA players than that team Morrison went 10-17 against in an NCAA tournament game when he was every team's focal point on defense. We can just agree to disagree.

[RockRaines]

Athletes in the NBA>>>>>>>> athletes in this year's B1G. Also no team in the B1G this year had more NBA players than that team Morrison went 10-17 against in an NCAA tournament game when he was every team's focal point on defense. We can just agree to disagree.

Tournament games have about 0% to do with conference play.

[RockRaines]

I know McGary has said he's coming back, but I just saw he's the #2 scorer and #1 rebounder left in the final four. Is that correct? He's probably playing himself into a top 10 pick.

[Boogua]

Tournament games have about 0% to do with conference play.

Ah, you're saying the B1G would be too physical for him in conference. That's a better point, but the B1G is always pretty physical and he put up 43 on MSU that year. This argument is trivial though. At least the Thomas debate will play itself out.

[RockRaines]

Ah, you're saying the B1G would be too physical for him in conference. That's a better point, but the B1G is always pretty physical and he put up 43 on MSU that year. This argument is trivial though. At least the Thomas debate will play itself out.

Conference play in general. I know you are hanging your hat on an early season contest vs MSU in which no defense was played in 3 OT's, but I dont think thats a good barometer.

 

The Thomas situation I think wont prove out until about 3-4 years from now. By then we'll have forgotten all about it.

 

 

BTW, this guy dropped 36 in that game:

 

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2982/maurice-ager

 

Probably safe to say Brown and Pargo were the only real NBA guys in the game I guess.

Edited April 5, 2013 by RockRaines

[Soxbadger]

I think its possible McGary comes out this year.

[whitesoxfan99]

Conference play in general. I know you are hanging your hat on an early season contest vs MSU in which no defense was played in 3 OT's, but I dont think thats a good barometer.

 

The Thomas situation I think wont prove out until about 3-4 years from now. By then we'll have forgotten all about it.

 

 

BTW, this guy dropped 36 in that game:

 

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2982/maurice-ager

 

Ager was a first round pick. Not sure how that helps your argument.