2012-2013 NCAA Basketball thread

[Soxbadger]

Gasser was named PG, but no one was sure how the actual rotation would go. George Marshall red-shirt frosh is who many thought would be the real pg, he just hasnt played any minutes yet.

[Dick Allen]

Why are you resurrecting a comment from August?

 

Anyways its not comparable.

 

Ben Brust never received a dime from Iowa, Uthoff received a full years tuition.

 

Being signed is not the same as being on the team and practicing. Once again this is the first and only time Ryan ever put any restriction on any transferring player. A similar example (if you actually wanted to discuss instead of troll) would be Sharif Chamblisss who was released from PSU and paid his own way to Wisconsin, same as Uthoff.

 

http://badgerherald.com/sports/2004/02/25/..._finally_at.php

 

 

 

 

So why are you bringing this up?

Its the same if you want to transfer. Iowa could have put the same restrictions on Brust. Uthoff has to sit a year Brust was able to suck right away. Not to mention after signing his National Letter of Intent, Brust took a scholarship that could have gone to another player at that time. Maybe it works out for Iowa in the end. I think they will get the better of this "trade".

Edited October 29, 2012 by Dick Allen

[illinilaw08]

I figured that would be the quick defensive mechanism, regardless of its validity.

 

The only way I have a problem with it is if Crean actively lies to the kids and says "Oh no don't worry, Austin Etherington and Remy Abell are going to transfer after this year, it's all good" or some other such garbage*, and it turns out it's not true and the kid relied on that in committing. Other than that, no, I can't really imagine the scenario.

 

 

*And Crean could be doing this already for all I know; I obviously hope not, but hard to know for sure.

 

I've had extensive conversations about this with my IU friends and co-workers. Here's my biggest issue with ANY program oversigning. It assumes a certain amount of attrition from the classes above. Yeah, we're oversigned, but Remy Abell is going to get pushed out. Crean definitely didn't tell Remy Abell that he would be at risk of being pushed out if he liked kids in the classes below him (note, this would apply to Mike Shaw at Illinois as well). There's always a certain amount of attrition, transfers, etc. It just doesn't feel right to me when coaches push players out to free up other scholarships.

 

I don't have a problem with how IU took care of its scholarship issue this year. I think IU did right by Matt Roth (he got two degrees). Assuming the Zellers were ready to pay Cody Zeller's way this year, the Ron Patterson issue doesn't smell as bad.

 

[bmags]

this is a complete shot in the dark:

 

Does anyone know if fox midwest sports channel is the same as something that would be int his sports package:

 

Fox College Sports

 

Access to three Fox regional channels: Atlantic, Central and Pacific.

Up to 150 college football games and 500 men’s and women’s basketball games every year.

???

 

I can figure this out at home in 60 minutes, but just wondering. I want to catch Mizzou tonight.

[bmags]

NVM it's on ESPN3.

 

Super pumped. Excited to see Keion Bell and Oriakhi in action.

[Soxbadger]

Its the same if you want to transfer. Iowa could have put the same restrictions on Brust. Uthoff has to sit a year Brust was able to suck right away. Not to mention after signing his National Letter of Intent, Brust took a scholarship that could have gone to another player at that time. Maybe it works out for Iowa in the end. I think they will get the better of this "trade".

 

Let me repeat what you said:

 

Iowa could have put the same restrictions on Brust.

 

Iowa could have put the same restrictions on Brust.

 

Iowa could have put the same restrictions on Brust.

 

Iowa could have put the same restrictions on Brust.

 

Iowa didnt. End of story.

 

Brust and Uthoff are 2 different unrelated situations, I dont believe Wisconsin made any agreement with Iowa that if Iowa didnt restrict Brust that they wouldnt restrict players in the future. I do believe at the time Brust was being recruited by Northwestern and Wisconsin, so it wasnt even 100% that he would pick Wisconsin.

 

There was no trade, Uthoff left Wisconsin because hes afraid of Sam Dekker. Brust had nothing to do with Uthoff. I personally believe that there is a difference between transferring before you get money from a school and after you get money. But the main point should be that Iowa COULD HAVE PUT RESTRICTIONS and if they had, I wouldnt be in here whining because Iowa was playing by the rules.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Soxbadger

[He_Gawn]

I've had extensive conversations about this with my IU friends and co-workers. Here's my biggest issue with ANY program oversigning. It assumes a certain amount of attrition from the classes above. Yeah, we're oversigned, but Remy Abell is going to get pushed out. Crean definitely didn't tell Remy Abell that he would be at risk of being pushed out if he liked kids in the classes below him (note, this would apply to Mike Shaw at Illinois as well). There's always a certain amount of attrition, transfers, etc. It just doesn't feel right to me when coaches push players out to free up other scholarships.

 

I don't have a problem with how IU took care of its scholarship issue this year. I think IU did right by Matt Roth (he got two degrees). Assuming the Zellers were ready to pay Cody Zeller's way this year, the Ron Patterson issue doesn't smell as bad.

 

Abel isn't going anywhere. He's been one of the best players in practice this year it sounds like. As for "creaning", it will take care of itself like it always does. Hasn't been one person who has come out and said Crean kicked him off the team. I guarantee Creek is gone after this year. His girlfriend just had a baby and is moving away. Hearing he has already told Crean this will be his last year, we shall see. Also, I'd bet anything Oladipo leaves after this year too. He graduates and the draft is 10x weaker in 2013 than it will be next year. Expect Vonleh to be a hoosier too.

[Soxbadger]

Personally believe over-signing should be against the rules, but those are the rules.

[Dick Allen]

Let me repeat what you said:

 

Iowa could have put the same restrictions on Brust.

 

Iowa could have put the same restrictions on Brust.

 

Iowa could have put the same restrictions on Brust.

 

Iowa could have put the same restrictions on Brust.

 

Iowa didnt. End of story.

 

Brust and Uthoff are 2 different unrelated situations, I dont believe Wisconsin made any agreement with Iowa that if Iowa didnt restrict Brust that they wouldnt restrict players in the future. I do believe at the time Brust was being recruited by Northwestern and Wisconsin, so it wasnt even 100% that he would pick Wisconsin.

 

There was no trade, Uthoff left Wisconsin because hes afraid of Sam Dekker. Brust had nothing to do with Uthoff. I personally believe that there is a difference between transferring before you get money from a school and after you get money. But the main point should be that Iowa COULD HAVE PUT RESTRICTIONS and if they had, I wouldnt be in here whining because Iowa was playing by the rules.

 

The main point is Bo Ryan was an ass to restrict Uthoff. All he accomplished was having Uthoff's parents pay his tuition at Iowa this year. Very petty.

 

[Soxbadger]

The main point is Bo Ryan was an ass to restrict Uthoff. All he accomplished was having Uthoff's parents pay his tuition at Iowa this year. Very petty.

 

So says you.

 

I think most people would agree that a coach who gave a kid almost $50k in benefits over 1 year isnt very petty that he didnt want that player to go to 1 of 11 schools in the nation.

 

I think most reasonable Big 10 fans would agree that their coach would be wise not to let a player transfer in conference after they have practiced and learned the system for a full year.

 

I personally would have no problem with any school in the Big 10 doing the same.

 

If you think that is petty so be it, but 1 year out of state Wisconsin is more than 3 years in state at Iowa.

 

Wisconsin:

 

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews....-wisconsin-3895

 

tuition and fees are $26,634

 

Iowa:

 

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews....ty-of-iowa-1892

 

$8,057 (2012-13)

 

 

So when can UW expect to get the check from the Uthoffs? Because last I checked Uthoff got a free year of tuition from that very petty coach and school.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Dick Allen]

So says you.

 

I think most people would agree that a coach who gave a kid almost $50k in benefits over 1 year isnt very petty that he didnt want that player to go to 1 of 11 schools in the nation.

 

I think most reasonable Big 10 fans would agree that their coach would be wise not to let a player transfer in conference after they have practiced and learned the system for a full year.

 

I personally would have no problem with any school in the Big 10 doing the same.

 

If you think that is petty so be it, but 1 year out of state Wisconsin is more than 3 years in state at Iowa.

 

Wisconsin:

 

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews....-wisconsin-3895

 

tuition and fees are $26,634

 

Iowa:

 

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews....ty-of-iowa-1892

 

$8,057 (2012-13)

 

 

So when can UW expect to get the check from the Uthoffs? Because last I checked Uthoff got a free year of tuition from that very petty coach and school.

Why would they get a check. He was on the team, and practiced with the team. It was the coach's decision not to play him.. It's not like the university is out the money. If the guy averaged 30 points a game and made Wisconsin big money, would he get a check? Players transfer all the time. Ryan showed everyone why the kid didn't want to play for him., and why let him transfer to some schools but not others unless your whole point is to be a dick?

 

 

I don,t know if he still had time on his contract, but if he did I wonder what Ryan would have done if Wisconsin-Milwaukee wouldn't have let him take the Badgers job. There was zero reason to do what he did to Uthoff. The guy didn't even play.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Dick Allen

[Soxbadger]

Why would they get a check. It's not like the university is out the money. If the guy averaged 30 points a game and made Wisconsin big money, would he get a check? Players transfer all the time. Ryan showed everyone why the kid didn't want to play for him., and why let him transfer to some schools but not others unless your whole point is to be a dick?

 

Players transfer with restrictions all the time. Most players dont cry like Uthoff when they are restricted from transferring in conference.

 

The whole point is that the University of Wisconsin is out for the University of Wisconsin. And Uthoff had a year to learn the ins and outs of UW's system. They have every right to restrict where he goes, they had every right not to release him and force him to go to a more prestigious university.

 

No one forced Uthoff to go to UW. No one forced him to take the money. He signed an agreement, and then he didnt want to fulfill his end. Not only didnt he want to fulfill it, he wanted NO REPERCUSSIONS.

 

How is Uthoff the victim here?

 

 

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball...nd-restrictions

 

Evan Smotrycz (Michigan) -- Not able to go to another Big Ten school or any team that has been scheduled for the next two years.

 

Rayvonte Rice (Drake) - Can't go to another Missouri Valley school or Iowa and Iowa State.

 

Damontre Harris (South Carolina) - Restricted from N.C. State due to fact that administration felt that the Wolfpack were tampering.

 

J.D. Weatherspoon (Ohio State) - Can't go within the Big Ten.

 

Jordan Sibert (Ohio State) - Can't go within the Big Ten.

 

Rodney Hood (Mississippi State) - Can't go anywhere within the SEC.

 

Glen Rice Jr., (Georgia Tech) - Can't go within the ACC or to in-state rival Georgia.

 

Adam Smith (UNC Wilmington) - Can't go within the CAA.

 

Gerard Coleman (Providence) - Can't go within the Big East.

 

Josiah Turner (Arizona) - No restrictions except for Pac-12 rule in which he'd have to pay for first year if he transfers to another school within the league.

 

T.J. McConnell (Duquesne) - Restricted from going to local schools Pittsburgh and Robert Morris.

 

Tavon Sledge (Iowa State) - Couldn't go to another Big 12 school or Iowa.

 

Michael Gbinijie (Duke) - No restrictions

 

Tony Chennault (Wake Forest) - No restrictions

 

Kyle Cain (Arizona State) - No restrictions except for the Pac-12.

 

 

Notice how every Big 10 transfer was restricted from going to another Big 10 school. So why are you hating on Ryan?

 

Seriously?

Edited October 29, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Soxbadger]

I don,t know if he still had time on his contract, but if he did I wonder what Ryan would have done if Wisconsin-Milwaukee wouldn't have let him take the Badgers job. There was zero reason to do what he did to Uthoff. The guy didn't even play.

 

My guess is there was a buy out clause. And if there wasnt, to bad for Bo Ryan. Dont sign an agreement if you arent going to fulfill it.

 

 

[Heads22]

I think people were questioning Ryan's restriction of Iowa State more.

[Soxbadger]

I think people were questioning Ryan's restriction of Iowa State more.

 

Bo Ryan was on vacation during that time period and had no clue what was going on. When he returned he removed the Iowa State restriction. The rumor was he thought there maybe tampering.

 

Uthoff could have gone to Iowa State.

 

At the end Ryan did the same thing everyone else does.

 

Here is Tom Izzo (not Bo Ryan's friend btw)

 

http://host.madison.com/sports/college/bas...19bb2963f4.html

 

Michigan State's Tom Izzo said he "felt for Bo" after watching Ryan's interview with ESPN's "Mike & Mike" radio show.

 

"What I felt that day when I was watching it was everything he said was right, but I didn't think he was explaining it as right," Izzo said.

 

"I think his message got a little confused, I think, or the way it was taken.

 

"But transferring is a problem right now. We're making it too easy. Pretty soon we're going to have free agency."

 

Read more: http://host.madison.com/sports/college/bas...l#ixzz2AjfgQ8Fm

[Dick Allen]

Players transfer with restrictions all the time. Most players dont cry like Uthoff when they are restricted from transferring in conference.

 

The whole point is that the University of Wisconsin is out for the University of Wisconsin. And Uthoff had a year to learn the ins and outs of UW's system. They have every right to restrict where he goes, they had every right not to release him and force him to go to a more prestigious university.

 

No one forced Uthoff to go to UW. No one forced him to take the money. He signed an agreement, and then he didnt want to fulfill his end. Not only didnt he want to fulfill it, he wanted NO REPERCUSSIONS.

 

How is Uthoff the victim here?

 

 

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball...nd-restrictions

 

Evan Smotrycz (Michigan) -- Not able to go to another Big Ten school or any team that has been scheduled for the next two years.

 

Rayvonte Rice (Drake) - Can't go to another Missouri Valley school or Iowa and Iowa State.

 

Damontre Harris (South Carolina) - Restricted from N.C. State due to fact that administration felt that the Wolfpack were tampering.

 

J.D. Weatherspoon (Ohio State) - Can't go within the Big Ten.

 

Jordan Sibert (Ohio State) - Can't go within the Big Ten.

 

Rodney Hood (Mississippi State) - Can't go anywhere within the SEC.

 

Glen Rice Jr., (Georgia Tech) - Can't go within the ACC or to in-state rival Georgia.

 

Adam Smith (UNC Wilmington) - Can't go within the CAA.

 

Gerard Coleman (Providence) - Can't go within the Big East.

 

Josiah Turner (Arizona) - No restrictions except for Pac-12 rule in which he'd have to pay for first year if he transfers to another school within the league.

 

T.J. McConnell (Duquesne) - Restricted from going to local schools Pittsburgh and Robert Morris.

 

Tavon Sledge (Iowa State) - Couldn't go to another Big 12 school or Iowa.

 

Michael Gbinijie (Duke) - No restrictions

 

Tony Chennault (Wake Forest) - No restrictions

 

Kyle Cain (Arizona State) - No restrictions except for the Pac-12.

 

 

Notice how every Big 10 transfer was restricted from going to another Big 10 school. So why are you hating on Ryan?

 

Seriously?

And how many of those schools took other Big Ten School's players?

 

[Soxbadger]

And how many of those schools took other Big Ten School's players?

 

lol

 

I have no idea because its irrelevant.

 

Iowa was not forced to release Brust from his commitment.

 

Iowa gave Brust a full release, which was THEIR CHOICE.

 

Brust chose Wisconsin over other schools.

 

Its not comparable, because Iowa chose to release Brust. Not to mention it was in part due to a coaching change. If Ryan left Wisconsin and Uthoff wanted to transfer, it would have been an entirely different matter.

 

Also, what does it matter whether OSU/Michigan or any other school took another Big 10 player? Isnt this about how bad and unfairly Uthoff was treated. Doesnt that presuppose he was treated differently.

 

Since you are the one making accusations, why dont you find another Big 10 player who received at least a full years scholarship and was allowed to transfer without ANY RESTRICTIONS.

 

You keep wanting to compare to Brust, who never received a dime or any training from Iowa. Completely different.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

lol

 

I have no idea because its irrelevant.

 

Iowa was not forced to release Brust from his commitment.

 

Iowa gave Brust a full release, which was THEIR CHOICE.

 

Brust chose Wisconsin over other schools.

 

Its not comparable, because Iowa chose to release Brust. Not to mention it was in part due to a coaching change. If Ryan left Wisconsin and Uthoff wanted to transfer, it would have been an entirely different matter.

 

Also, what does it matter whether OSU/Michigan or any other school took another Big 10 player? Isnt this about how bad and unfairly Uthoff was treated. Doesnt that presuppose he was treated differently.

 

Since you are the one making accusations, why dont you find another Big 10 player who received at least a full years scholarship and was allowed to transfer without ANY RESTRICTIONS.

 

You keep wanting to compare to Brust, who never received a dime or any training from Iowa. Completely different.

The Big Ten conference put a restriction on Brust going to another Big 10 school initially, but Wisconsin had Brust appeal. Uthoff practiced with Wisconsin and although redshirted, participated as a member of their team except for the games. He earned his scholarship, which at least whe I was in school was for one year at a time. He did his part. It's not as different as you want to make it. In fact, one of the articles you posted mentioned their similarities.

[Soxbadger]

The Big Ten conference put a restriction on Brust going to another Big 10 school initially, but Wisconsin had Brust appeal. Uthoff practiced with Wisconsin and although redshirted, participated as a member of their team except for the games. He earned his scholarship, which at least whe I was in school was for one year at a time. He did his part. It's not as different as you want to make it. In fact, one of the articles you posted mentioned their similarities.

 

Thats not true. The Big 10 had a rule that did not allow for any in-conference transfers without a waiver. 3 schools asked for a waiver, it was rejected. 2 schools then appealed that decision.

 

http://host.madison.com/sports/college/bas...1cc4c002e0.html

 

Brust made it clear he wanted to play for a Big Ten school, but he was told that conference rules prohibit players who sign a national letter of intent to play for a member school from ever accepting a scholarship offer from another league school.

 

UW, Northwestern and Minnesota joined together to ask the Big Ten for a waiver of that rule, citing that Brust is still in high school and never attended classes or played basketball at Iowa. The academics and eligibility subcommittee of the Big Ten faculty representatives turned down the waiver request.

 

The UW and Northwestern joined forces again to make one more appeal to the Big Ten that was heard by the conference's 11 faculty reps.

 

Other significant factors that worked for Brust, according to the source, were a precedent case involving former Illinois player Alex Legion -- who was released released from his commitment at Michigan, then played a semester at Kentucky before transferring to the Illini -- as well as the Big Ten's desire to look after the welfare of one of its future student-athletes.

 

Youll notice that a large part of the argument was based on the fact Ben Brust never enrolled at Iowa and therefore Iowa would not have been hurt by this. That argument assumes that in general a player transferring after they have enrolled does hurt a program.

 

As for the second part.

 

You can argue Uthoff earned his money, its not about that. I just think when you portray Uthoff as a victim, you need to at least recognize he got something very valuable from Wisconsin.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Soxbadger]

And if you werent aware of one of the most important differences, Brust could NEVER receive a Big 10 scholarship, not even if he sat out like Uthoff.

 

Uthoff just has to pay 1 year, that is the worst Bo Ryan could do to him. Uthoff always had the right to sit 1 year and then get a scholarship.

 

http://thegazette.com/2012/06/06/jarrod-ut...o-play-at-iowa/

 

After sitting out for one year, Uthoff will be eligible to play at Iowa for three seasons. A source with knowledge told The Gazette that Uthoff will earn a scholarship for the 2013-14 season.

 

Can we put to bed the Brust and Uthoff comparisons because they are so different its insane.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Dick Allen]

Thats not true. The Big 10 had a rule that did not allow for any in-conference transfers without a waiver. 3 schools asked for a waiver, it was rejected. 2 schools then appealed that decision.

 

http://host.madison.com/sports/college/bas...1cc4c002e0.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youll notice that a large part of the argument was based on the fact Ben Brust never enrolled at Iowa and therefore Iowa would not have been hurt by this. That argument assumes that in general a player transferring after they have enrolled does hurt a program.

 

As for the second part.

 

You can argue Uthoff earned his money, its not about that. I just think when you portray Uthoff as a victim, you need to at least recognize he got something very valuable from Wisconsin.

You"ll notice just as large part was , at least from what you highlighted ,Brust never played at Iowa. How many games did Uthoff play for Wisconsin? If Bo,won't give players the OOk to transfer to other Big Ten schools, he shouldn't take them for other Big Ten schools.

[IlliniKrush]

Guy plays for BT team.

 

Guy wants to leave BT team.

 

Guy shouldn't be able to freely go to another BT team to compete against team that had him. This isn't free agency.

 

Not sure what's so tough about this one.

[Soxbadger]

You"ll notice just as large part was , at least from what you highlighted ,Brust never played at Iowa. How many games did Uthoff play for Wisconsin? If Bo,won't give players the OOk to transfer to other Big Ten schools, he shouldn't take them for other Big Ten schools.

 

lol

 

Whatever. Bo Ryan has had 2 players transfer whiles hes been at Wisconsin, 1 Freddie Owens, without any restrictions, the other Uthoff, restricted to the Big 10.

 

If you want to make Bo Ryan out to be a bad guy because he put Big 10 transfer restrictions on Uthoff go ahead. I dont care, and Im sure Bo Ryan doesnt care.

 

But you keep comparing 2 completely different situations and you cant even admit that they are different. Nor do you even care to comment on the fact that a letter of intent is different than actually receiving a scholarship and that actually being part of the team, getting to practice and use the facilities, is different than never stepping foot on campus.

 

You also cant seem to accept that letters of intent and scholarships are under completely different sets of rules.

 

Here is an article that explains the process:

 

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/11...hts_nation.html

 

Just so its clear:

 

NLI rules begin when a prospective student-athlete signs a National Letter of Intent, and his obligation isn't fulfilled until he completes one academic year. NCAA transfer rules kick in after a student-athlete has been enrolled in a regular term or has reported to practice, and they apply throughout his college career.

 

And you also dont ever want to comment on Shareef Chambliss, the PSU player who transferred to Wisconsin and PAID HIS OWN WAY.

 

I dont exactly see what your point is. Brust was released from a LOI and through appeal was allowed to transfer inside the Big 10. Uthoff was released from scholarship with restriction.

 

Why should Bo Ryan have to release a scholarship player without restrictions? Where has Bo Ryan ever suggested that other coaches do that?'

 

 

 

 

[Soxbadger]

Guy plays for BT team.

 

Guy wants to leave BT team.

 

Guy shouldn't be able to freely go to another BT team to compete against team that had him. This isn't free agency.

 

Not sure what's so tough about this one.

 

Thank you, I was honestly starting to wonder if people actually wanted players to be able to go from Iowa to Michigan to MSU.

[dasox24]

Guy plays for BT team.

 

Guy wants to leave BT team.

 

Guy shouldn't be able to freely go to another BT team to compete against team that had him. This isn't free agency.

 

Not sure what's so tough about this one.

I agree completely. Seems simple enough to me.