2012-2013 NCAA Basketball thread

[Dick Allen]

lol

 

Whatever. Bo Ryan has had 2 players transfer whiles hes been at Wisconsin, 1 Freddie Owens, without any restrictions, the other Uthoff, restricted to the Big 10.

 

If you want to make Bo Ryan out to be a bad guy because he put Big 10 transfer restrictions on Uthoff go ahead. I dont care, and Im sure Bo Ryan doesnt care.

 

But you keep comparing 2 completely different situations and you cant even admit that they are different. Nor do you even care to comment on the fact that a letter of intent is different than actually receiving a scholarship and that actually being part of the team, getting to practice and use the facilities, is different than never stepping foot on campus.

 

You also cant seem to accept that letters of intent and scholarships are under completely different sets of rules.

 

Here is an article that explains the process:

 

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/11...hts_nation.html

 

Just so its clear:

 

 

 

And you also dont ever want to comment on Shareef Chambliss, the PSU player who transferred to Wisconsin and PAID HIS OWN WAY.

 

I dont exactly see what your point is. Brust was released from a LOI and through appeal was allowed to transfer inside the Big 10. Uthoff was released from scholarship with restriction.

 

Why should Bo Ryan have to release a scholarship player without restrictions? Where has Bo Ryan ever suggested that other coaches do that?'

The Big Ten initially ruled Brust couldn't accept a scholarship to another Big Ten school? Why? And if a kid doesn't want to be there, why put the restrictions on him, if he supposedly cares anything about him except for his basketball ability? Why did he say Iowa State, Marquette and the entire ACC was off limits?

 

And as for the "training" and one year of education, until this past recruting class, the norm for college athletes was to sign one year grants that were renewed. Many in the Big Ten, including Wisconsin, now will give a 4 year guarantee, so if Uthoff signed a one year grant, what really does he owe Wisconsin?

Edited October 30, 2012 by Dick Allen

[Brian]

I hate the sitting out a year rule for players. Coaches jump aEvery year. If done legally, who cares.

[Kyyle23]

I hate the sitting out a year rule for players. Coaches jump aEvery year. If done legally, who cares.

 

There has to be some sort of deterrant for coaches to try and create superteams via transfer. I dont know what the perfect answer is, but there has to be something.

 

 

There also has to be a coach deterrant for the Calipari golden parachute maneuver. Something sufficient

[bmags]

 

Oh hello Keion Bell.

[IlliniKrush]

I hate the sitting out a year rule for players. Coaches jump aEvery year. If done legally, who cares.

LOL, that would make NCAA like the NBA with free agency. There's absolutely no way you could get rid of that rule.

[Brian]

LOL, that would make NCAA like the NBA with free agency. There's absolutely no way you could get rid of that rule.

 

Schools still have a certain amount of scholarships and the NCAA can make a rule about not being able to strip one from a player for certain reasons to open one up.

Or if you transfer, you can play right away but lose a year of eligibility.

[Soxbadger]

The Big Ten initially ruled Brust couldn't accept a scholarship to another Big Ten school? Why? And if a kid doesn't want to be there, why put the restrictions on him, if he supposedly cares anything about him except for his basketball ability? Why did he say Iowa State, Marquette and the entire ACC was off limits?

 

And as for the "training" and one year of education, until this past recruting class, the norm for college athletes was to sign one year grants that were renewed. Many in the Big Ten, including Wisconsin, now will give a 4 year guarantee, so if Uthoff signed a one year grant, what really does he owe Wisconsin?

 

Are you still fighting this?

 

Why did the Big 10 have the rule? I dont know, you should ask the Big 10 why.

 

Why did Bo Ryan put restrictions of Marquette, ACC and Iowa State?

 

This was the second time any player has EVER transferred from Wisconsin under Bo Ryan. The first came to Bo Ryan personally and asked to be released. Bo Ryan released him completely without any restrictions.

 

The second was Uthoff, who put in for a transfer while Bo Ryan was on vacation. Bo Ryan called other coaches and asked them what he should do. They advised Bo Ryan that the normal procedure was to block transfer to any school you would be playing in the next 4 years. Thus Bo Ryan blocked 1) Marquette who is an instate rival and they play every year 2) ACC who they play via ACC-Big10 challenge and 3) Iowa State as there were rumors of tampering.

 

As for the 4 year guarantee, Bo Ryan has always guaranteed 4 years and Wisconsin has kept players on scholarship who were complete jokes because of that promise.

 

No one is still fighting this battle besides for people who are completely biased. Bo Ryan is one of the good guys in college basketball, even players who dont commit to Wisconsin usually have very high respect for him because he treats players very well. Perhaps you should watch a handshake line where he talks with basically every opposing player and tells them how they did a good job.

 

If this was Bielema I would approach this way differently, but Bo Ryan deserves the benefit of the doubt here. Hes been a head coach for almost 30 years and 1 player in his entire history has complained? To me that suggests it was the player, not the coach. Uthoff was troubled since the beginning, he was at the scorers table to check in and then decided he wanted to red shirt. Hes been confused from the start.

 

Good luck to him, its his decision to turn down a Wisconsin education for an Iowa education. I dont see why Bo Ryan needed to care about Uthoff after Uthoff decided to transfer while Bo Ryan was on vacation. Respect is earned through action, Uthoff did nothing to earn the respect of anyone. Maybe its just me, but creating a story in the press before Bo Ryan could even get back, isnt the way an adult handles something.

 

 

-----------------------------

 

 

Now to the coaching change part.

 

Coaches are governed by contract. The reason they can leave is that they negotiate buy out clauses. The school could theoretically put a non-compete in and restrict the coach from going to another competitor for a few years. The reason they dont is because most coaches would refuse to accept that.

 

You cant compare a negotiated agreement to rules set by the NCAA.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Dick Allen]

Are you still fighting this?

 

Why did the Big 10 have the rule? I dont know, you should ask the Big 10 why.

 

Why did Bo Ryan put restrictions of Marquette, ACC and Iowa State?

 

This was the second time any player has EVER transferred from Wisconsin under Bo Ryan. The first came to Bo Ryan personally and asked to be released. Bo Ryan released him completely without any restrictions.

 

The second was Uthoff, who put in for a transfer while Bo Ryan was on vacation. Bo Ryan called other coaches and asked them what he should do. They advised Bo Ryan that the normal procedure was to block transfer to any school you would be playing in the next 4 years. Thus Bo Ryan blocked 1) Marquette who is an instate rival and they play every year 2) ACC who they play via ACC-Big10 challenge and 3) Iowa State as there were rumors of tampering.

 

As for the 4 year guarantee, Bo Ryan has always guaranteed 4 years and Wisconsin has kept players on scholarship who were complete jokes because of that promise.

 

No one is still fighting this battle besides for people who are completely biased. Bo Ryan is one of the good guys in college basketball, even players who dont commit to Wisconsin usually have very high respect for him because he treats players very well. Perhaps you should watch a handshake line where he talks with basically every opposing player and tells them how they did a good job.

 

If this was Bielema I would approach this way differently, but Bo Ryan deserves the benefit of the doubt here. Hes been a head coach for almost 30 years and 1 player in his entire history has complained? To me that suggests it was the player, not the coach. Uthoff was troubled since the beginning, he was at the scorers table to check in and then decided he wanted to red shirt. Hes been confused from the start.

 

Good luck to him, its his decision to turn down a Wisconsin education for an Iowa education. I dont see why Bo Ryan needed to care about Uthoff after Uthoff decided to transfer while Bo Ryan was on vacation. Respect is earned through action, Uthoff did nothing to earn the respect of anyone. Maybe its just me, but creating a story in the press before Bo Ryan could even get back, isnt the way an adult handles something.

 

 

-----------------------------

 

 

Now to the coaching change part.

 

Coaches are governed by contract. The reason they can leave is that they negotiate buy out clauses. The school could theoretically put a non-compete in and restrict the coach from going to another competitor for a few years. The reason they dont is because most coaches would refuse to accept that.

 

You cant compare a negotiated agreement to rules set by the NCAA.

And most student athletes, until this year get one year grants that are renewed. If Uthoff wanted to transfer, after fulfilling the one year, and you make a great case for him wanting to transfer, why block where he will go? He blocked Iowa State because he thought the kid wouldn't mind going there. If Uthoff is the mental midget you make him out to be, Wisconsin and Bo Ryan should welcome him on the opposition. If they are so afraid of playing against him, he must not be the piece of crap you make him out to be.

 

And as for your point about Chambliss paying his way to play for Wisconsin, that was the old rule in the Big Ten, its been changed. If that rule were still in place, fine, but its not. Brad Sellers went from Wisconsin to Ohio State, Luke Recker played for Iowa after starting out in Indiana. Neither was on scholarship after the transfer. Don't take conference recruits if you are opposed to the people you have spent time with transferring in conference.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Dick Allen

[Soxbadger]

And most student athletes, until this year get one year grants that are renewed. If Uthoff wanted to transfer, after fulfilling the one year, and you make a great case for him wanting to transfer, why block where he will go? He blocked Iowa State because he thought the kid wouldn't mind going there. If Uthoff is the mental midget you make him out to be, Wisconsin and Bo Ryan should welcome him on the opposition. If they are so afraid of playing against him, he must not be the piece of crap you make him out to be.

 

And as for your point about Chambliss paying his way to play for Wisconsin, that was the old rule in the Big Ten, its been changed. If that rule were still in place, fine, but its not. Brad Sellers went from Wisconsin to Ohio State, Luke Recker played for Iowa after starting out in Indiana. Neither was on scholarship after the transfer. Don't take conference recruits if you are opposed to the people you have spent time with transferring in conference.

 

I give up, I really dont know what your deal is. As you said, every other player on your list paid their own way. Uthoff has to pay for 1 year. I dont see why Bo Ryan had to let Uthoff go without any restrictions. Who cares what happened with Ben Brust, I certainly dont. That was a letter of intent.

 

If in the future a player wants to transfer from Iowa, can they now not restrict them because they took Uthoff?

 

According to your rationale, yes. According to mine, no. Unless Iowa actually states that they will never restrict, what in the world does it matter what Wisconsin, OSU or any other school does? What does it matter that Wisconsin took Ben Brust after he was allowed to go there. You seem to want these coaches to have to follow your made up rules instead of the actual rules.

 

Bo Ryan followed the rules. I dont think you are going to convince anyone but the most delusional Iowa fans that it is a good idea to just let players transfer in conference without any repercussion.

 

Why cant NCAA players just pick whatever NBA team they want, why do they have to go to the team that drafts them?

 

Its not fair to the player, but there are rules. And in this case there were rules that the player cant get a scholarship from ANY school unless they are released from their scholarship. Uthoff could have chosen any school but 11, that seems pretty reasonable considering there are at least 100 NCAA basketball programs.

 

This is a really hard one to argue, because I just cant understand your angle at all here. Are you really suggesting all players should be able to transfer to any school at any time? Because otherwise its always "unfair".

Edited October 30, 2012 by Soxbadger

[bmags]

In my view, restricting where a player can transfer is the most ridiculous and slimey things a coach can do.

[Dick Allen]

I give up, I really dont know what your deal is. As you said, every other player on your list paid their own way. Uthoff has to pay for 1 year. I dont see why Bo Ryan had to let Uthoff go without any restrictions. Who cares what happened with Ben Brust, I certainly dont. That was a letter of intent.

 

If in the future a player wants to transfer from Iowa, can they now not restrict them because they took Uthoff?

 

According to your rationale, yes. According to mine, no. Unless Iowa actually states that they will never restrict, what in the world does it matter what Wisconsin, OSU or any other school does? What does it matter that Wisconsin took Ben Brust after he was allowed to go there. You seem to want these coaches to have to follow your made up rules instead of the actual rules.

 

Bo Ryan followed the rules. I dont think you are going to convince anyone but the most delusional Iowa fans that it is a good idea to just let players transfer in conference without any repercussion.

 

Why cant NCAA players just pick whatever NBA team they want, why do they have to go to the team that drafts them?

 

Its not fair to the player, but there are rules. And in this case there were rules that the player cant get a scholarship from ANY school unless they are released from their scholarship. Uthoff could have chosen any school but 11, that seems pretty reasonable considering there are at least 100 NCAA basketball programs.

 

This is a really hard one to argue, because I just cant understand your angle at all here. Are you really suggesting all players should be able to transfer to any school at any time? Because otherwise its always "unfair".

Just because someone followed the rules doesn't mean they weren't being petty or just being ridiculous. If a player wants to leave your program and is willing to sit out a season to do so, they should be able to go wherever they want. Making Uthoff's parents pay for a year of college may be no big deal, but what if he was from a family that couldn't afford it? Is that fair? The guy didn't want to play for Wisconsin anymore, and from what you posted, Wisconsin really didn't want him, why restrict? I wouldn't be so opposed to his actions if he hadn't recruited someone another Big Ten school already signed to a National Letter of Intent and then appealed to the Big Ten when they said he couldn't transfer to his school and was denied again. He is a hypocrite.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Dick Allen

[Soxbadger]

In my view, restricting where a player can transfer is the most ridiculous and slimey things a coach can do.

 

 

I personally dont like transfers in conference. If you want to go somewhere else, fine, there are plenty of other options out there. I just work with non-competes, non-solicitations everyday, so it doesnt seem that odd that college sports programs that are worth hundreds of millions of dollars wouldnt want the same protection.

 

Just is good business.

 

 

Just because someone followed the rules doesn't mean they weren't being petty or just being ridiculous. If a player wants to leave your program and is willing to sit out a season to do so, they should be able to go wherever they want. Making Uthoff's parents pay for a year of college may be no big deal, but what if he was from a family that couldn't afford it? Is that fair? The guy didn't want to play for Wisconsin anymore, and from what you posted, Wisconsin really didn't want him, why restrict?

 

Why restrict him?

 

Its good business. Whether Uthoff is good, bad or indifferent, you do not want a direct competitor to have inside knowledge of your program. Uthoff was on the scout team for a full year, he learned all of Wisconsin's system. He also knows the depth chart, he knows other players that havent been scouted by other programs. He may have heard Bo Ryan say things about potential system changes, about ways to beat certain teams, etc.

 

Why in the world would you want one of your top 11 competitors to have him?

 

You seem to not understand that Uthoff could have gotten a full ride from hundreds of programs. He chose to go to one of the handful that his parents would have to pay for.

 

If he was so poor, he could have 1) stayed at Wisconsin and received a free education or 2) transferred to 200 other schools where he would have received a free education.

 

I dont know him, but he seems like a petulant child who had first pick of toys, chose the fire engine and now wants the police car that is already being played with. You keep offering him hundreds of other toys, but he only wants the 1 toy he cant have. So at the end you say fine, you can have the toy, you just have to wait, or you can play with another toy.

 

Uthoff put himself in this position. He has no one to blame but himself.

 

[Soxbadger]

I wouldn't be so opposed to his actions if he hadn't recruited someone another Big Ten school already signed to a National Letter of Intent and then appealed to the Big Ten when they said he couldn't transfer to his school and was denied again. He is a hypocrite.

 

You mean he is trying to win basketball games.

 

Everyone in the world is a hypocrite at some point, including me.

 

I dont hold people to ridiculous standards.

 

I dont believe Iowa could restrict the release of the LOI, if they could have and didnt, they are stupid. But why should Wisconsin be punished from Iowa's stupidity?

 

Just because my opponent is a moron doesnt mean I have to be one.

[Dick Allen]

You mean he is trying to win basketball games.

 

Everyone in the world is a hypocrite at some point, including me.

 

I dont hold people to ridiculous standards.

 

I dont believe Iowa could restrict the release of the LOI, if they could have and didnt, they are stupid. But why should Wisconsin be punished from Iowa's stupidity?

 

Just because my opponent is a moron doesnt mean I have to be one.

Doesn't make them stupid. Some 18 and 19 year old kids make mistakes or change their minds. And with non compete clauses, there are a huge portion of those that are not enforceable. In Uthoff's instance, it shouldn't be about business when its concerning an 19 year old's life. If the kid wants to leave, let him go where he wants, unless of course, you're so paranoid he'll come back and haunt you on the court. Ryan should have been a man, not the child you describe Uthoff as being.

[Soxbadger]

Doesn't make them stupid. Some 18 and 19 year old kids make mistakes or change their minds. And with non compete clauses, there are a huge portion of those that are not enforceable. In Uthoff's instance, it shouldn't be about business when its concerning an 19 year old's life. If the kid wants to leave, let him go where he wants, unless of course, you're so paranoid he'll come back and haunt you on the court. Ryan should have been a man, not the child you describe Uthoff as being.

 

This is tiring.

 

The second that Uthoff got a scholarship to go to Wisconsin to PLAY BASKETBALL it was about business. If he doesnt want to be involved in the business, pay to go to college like the rest of us. Guess what, if you pay your own freight you can do whatever you want.

 

If its just about the good of the players only, why have any rules? Why not let UNC give out 100 scholarships? Why not let a player transfer during the season? Oh turns out that Minnesota isnt that good this year, why not try MSU? Oh MSU lost this week, Ill transfer to OSU?

 

At what point do we hold these "kids" to their mistakes. Why not give them more years of eligibility? I only got 4 years, maybe if I got 10 Id have been something.

 

The facts are no one at Wisconsin is talking about Uthoff. Its the past, yet for some reason an Iowa fan resurrects a dead issue.

 

Bo Ryan is the most terrible person in the world, he wanted Uthoff to get a free education at a premiere university. For shame Bo Ryan, for shame.

[bmags]

This is tiring.

 

The second that Uthoff got a scholarship to go to Wisconsin to PLAY BASKETBALL it was about business. If he doesnt want to be involved in the business, pay to go to college like the rest of us. Guess what, if you pay your own freight you can do whatever you want.

 

If its just about the good of the players only, why have any rules? Why not let UNC give out 100 scholarships? Why not let a player transfer during the season? Oh turns out that Minnesota isnt that good this year, why not try MSU? Oh MSU lost this week, Ill transfer to OSU?

 

At what point do we hold these "kids" to their mistakes. Why not give them more years of eligibility? I only got 4 years, maybe if I got 10 Id have been something.

 

The facts are no one at Wisconsin is talking about Uthoff. Its the past, yet for some reason an Iowa fan resurrects a dead issue.

 

Bo Ryan is the most terrible person in the world, he wanted Uthoff to get a free education at a premiere university. For shame Bo Ryan, for shame.

 

LOL. What if a student came in on scholarship, and realized they'd be a better fit at a different school's program. Do you realize how outrageous it would be for the school to deny that? NCAA basketball is not a business for the athletes. If it was they'd be getting paid.

[IlliniKrush]

LOL. What if a student came in on scholarship, and realized they'd be a better fit at a different school's program. Do you realize how outrageous it would be for the school to deny that? NCAA basketball is not a business for the athletes. If it was they'd be getting paid.

Scholarship.

[Soxbadger]

LOL. What if a student came in on scholarship, and realized they'd be a better fit at a different school's program. Do you realize how outrageous it would be for the school to deny that? NCAA basketball is not a business for the athletes. If it was they'd be getting paid.

 

Estimates are a scholarship to Wisconsin is worth over $50k per year. Tuition was $26k alone, that does not include free boarding at a private residence, food all year, etc.

 

And what if a student realizes they are a better fit?

 

1) They can go to a school that isnt restricted.

 

2) They can wait 1 year to go to any school they want.

 

How is that so prohibitive?

 

 

 

[cabiness42]

LOL. What if a student came in on scholarship, and realized they'd be a better fit at a different school's program. Do you realize how outrageous it would be for the school to deny that? NCAA basketball is not a business for the athletes. If it was they'd be getting paid.

 

Schools can make scholarships contingent on graduating from their school, and force the student to repay if he/she doesn't. I don't know how many schools actually do that, but they could if they wanted to.

[Dick Allen]

This is tiring.

 

The second that Uthoff got a scholarship to go to Wisconsin to PLAY BASKETBALL it was about business. If he doesnt want to be involved in the business, pay to go to college like the rest of us. Guess what, if you pay your own freight you can do whatever you want.

 

If its just about the good of the players only, why have any rules? Why not let UNC give out 100 scholarships? Why not let a player transfer during the season? Oh turns out that Minnesota isnt that good this year, why not try MSU? Oh MSU lost this week, Ill transfer to OSU?

 

At what point do we hold these "kids" to their mistakes. Why not give them more years of eligibility? I only got 4 years, maybe if I got 10 Id have been something.

 

The facts are no one at Wisconsin is talking about Uthoff. Its the past, yet for some reason an Iowa fan resurrects a dead issue.

 

Bo Ryan is the most terrible person in the world, he wanted Uthoff to get a free education at a premiere university. For shame Bo Ryan, for shame.

 

Now its about PLAYING BASKETBALL not the U of W education you were popping off about. Well, he didn't PLAY BASKETBALL at Wisconsin, so he should be allowed to go where he wants to go.

 

[Dick Allen]

Schools can make scholarships contingent on graduating from their school, and force the student to repay if he/she doesn't. I don't know how many schools actually do that, but they could if they wanted to.

Good luck getting paid back under that scenerio.

[bmags]

Estimates are a scholarship to Wisconsin is worth over $50k per year. Tuition was $26k alone, that does not include free boarding at a private residence, food all year, etc.

 

And what if a student realizes they are a better fit?

 

1) They can go to a school that isnt restricted.

 

2) They can wait 1 year to go to any school they want.

 

How is that so prohibitive?

 

There is no. f***ing. reason. on. earth. that a coach should be able to restrict a player's transfer anywhere. Absolutely none. These are amateur, unpaid athletes. The coach is making millions and can drop on a dime and leave the college, leaving the player at the whim of the new coach. And then if the player wants to transfer to be with a good fit? Sorry, you have to sit out a year.

 

The player has no protection if the coach leaves, why should the coach get protection for when the player leaves?

[bmags]

Scholarship.

 

Waiving a fee != getting paid.

[GoodAsGould]

Didn't this Wisconsin transfer thing happen awhile ago now, the start of the season is coming near is it possible we can leave the subject in the past or you 2 can pm it out instead of having 3 or so pages going back and forth over something that isn't news anymore. Just one of you be big enough and let the other person have the last word for the sake of everyone else.

[Kyyle23]

I wish i could post the gif of the cats watching the ping pong game