2012-2013 NCAA Basketball thread

[LittleHurt05]

Well, it does sound like he failed numerous drug tests.

 

I forgot that the NCAA tests too, I thought it was all inside stuff that could have been swept under the rug. Never mind.

[cabiness42]

Blaming the victim is exactly what I am referring to when it comes to the PSU comparison. It wasn't about the crimes, but about the response to the accusations. Being angry and pointing the finger at everyone but the person responsible.

 

Nobody is blaming the victim, but the reality is that the alleged victim took her own life before the case could be concluded and that prevented any further legal action. A crime was alleged, circumstances prevented law enforcement from proving guilt, so nothing can be done.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

She filed a police report. It was made public. The allegation was unwanted contact to her clothed breasts and genitals, but all the ND haters ignored that and started throwing around the word 'rape', because the ND haters are a bunch of sheep who believe everything they read that is the slightest bit negative about ND without looking it up themselves.

 

Oh, so they didn't rape her, they just unconsentually felt her up. Sounds like everything's good, glad we got that cleared up.

[southsider2k5]

Nobody is blaming the victim, but the reality is that the alleged victim took her own life before the case could be concluded and that prevented any further legal action. A crime was alleged, circumstances prevented law enforcement from proving guilt, so nothing can be done.

 

Now I would say you have no idea about the case. PLENTY of people blamed her, including officials at the university.

[cabiness42]

Now I would say you have no idea about the case. PLENTY of people blamed her, including officials at the university.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about all the anonymous quotes attributed to "top officials" at the university. That's always the first place to go for trustworthy information is anonymous sources.

[IlliniKrush]

Reading Hickory's posts at this point are hilarious. He's OK with assault, rape, death, you name it, we're just all jealous of ND.

 

Hey Hickory, you realize I'm an ND fan too, right? But keep using the Illini comeback to defend 2 deaths on the campus. Definitely does wonders for ND.

 

Fans like you are the reason it's so tough to support ND. The fanbase has their collective head in the sand. Anything to protect the football program.

 

http://deadspin.com/5897809/this-is-what-h...-assaulting-you

 

http://ncronline.org/news/accountability/r...estions-answers

 

LOL at you saying "they didn't have time to finish the investigation." Might want to check your facts on how many days it took ND to do, well, NOTHING after it was reported.

 

That 2nd article makes me want to throw up.

 

You're not far from PSU fans.

[cabiness42]

Reading Hickory's posts at this point are hilarious. He's OK with assault, rape, death, you name it, we're just all jealous of ND.

 

Hey Hickory, you realize I'm an ND fan too, right? But keep using the Illini comeback to defend 2 deaths on the campus. Definitely does wonders for ND.

 

LOL at you saying "they didn't have time to finish the investigation." Might want to check your facts on how many days it took ND to do, well, NOTHING after it was reported.

 

Again, it wasn't rape, and it's a telling sign when you have to lie to make your point, so keep it up.

 

She killed herself 10 days after the incident. The police are supposed to have the investigation wrapped up and decide whether or not to press charges in 10 days?

 

You keep bringing up an incident where there is no proof of a crime. That's all you've got to come with.

[IlliniKrush]

Again, it wasn't rape, and it's a telling sign when you have to lie to make your point, so keep it up.

 

She killed herself 10 days after the incident. The police are supposed to have the investigation wrapped up and decide whether or not to press charges in 10 days?

 

You keep bringing up an incident where there is no proof of a crime. That's all you've got to come with.

It wasn't a rape, so it's OK. I hope you don't have kids.

 

The police are supposed to do SOMETHING. But it's ND, so they don't. Protect the program.

 

You're beyond a homer at this point. I'm sure you get along great with PSU fans.

[cabiness42]

It wasn't a rape, so it's OK. I hope you don't have kids.

 

The police are supposed to do SOMETHING. But it's ND, so they don't. Protect the program.

 

You're beyond a homer at this point. I'm sure you get along great with PSU fans.

 

I didn't say it was OK because it wasn't a rape. I said that you're a liar because it wasn't a rape.

 

You're beyond obsessed at this point.

[IlliniKrush]

I didn't say it was OK because it wasn't a rape. I said that you're a liar because it wasn't a rape.

 

You're beyond obsessed at this point.

Yes, I'm beyond obsessed. I'm sure that's how everyone sees it here.

[cabiness42]

Yes, I'm beyond obsessed. I'm sure that's how everyone sees it here.

 

Yes, you're using a case where the University didn't discipline a football player who may or may not have committed a crime to suggest that means Notre Dame somehow isn't the institution they claim to be. You've deliberately lied about the seriousness of the alleged crime in order to make your case. That's textbook obsession.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Again, it wasn't rape, and it's a telling sign when you have to lie to make your point, so keep it up.

 

She killed herself 10 days after the incident. The police are supposed to have the investigation wrapped up and decide whether or not to press charges in 10 days?

 

You keep bringing up an incident where there is no proof of a crime. That's all you've got to come with.

 

I bet she was just asking for it anyway. That and if she was victim of some non-consensual act, that was just God's plan for her.

 

Seriously dude, take a step back. Notre Dame alumni and fans have their head up their asses. How you can deny this is beyond me. It's the same bulls*** as people (again, mostly Notre Dame alumni and fans) thinking college football is somehow better when Notre Dame is competing for national titles. Nope. No one gives a s***. College football has been doing just fine the last 20 years.

[cabiness42]

It's the same bulls*** as people (again, mostly Notre Dame alumni and fans) thinking college football is somehow better when Notre Dame is competing for national titles. Nope. No one gives a s***. College football has been doing just fine the last 20 years.

 

ESPN is too busy to respond to that argument because they're busy counting all the extra cash they are making from commercial spots in a championship game featuring ND.

 

What team's fans don't think college football is somehow better when their team is winning? Do Wisconsin fans sit around saying, "Hey, I'm glad we're winning but you know college football would be better if we weren't"?

Edited November 30, 2012 by HickoryHuskers

[witesoxfan]

If I am reading this right, this...

 

I bet she was just asking for it anyway. That and if she was victim of some non-consensual act, that was just God's plan for her.

 

...was responded to by this.

 

ESPN is too busy to respond to that argument because they're busy counting all the extra cash they are making from commercial spots in a championship game featuring ND.

 

If I am reading that properly, then

 

/facepalm

[cabiness42]

If I am reading this right, this...

 

 

 

...was responded to by this.

 

 

 

If I am reading that properly, then

 

/facepalm

 

No, that was a response to the "ND winning is better for football" portion of the argument. I should have edited the quote.

 

[illinilaw08]

Yes, you're using a case where the University didn't discipline a football player who may or may not have committed a crime to suggest that means Notre Dame somehow isn't the institution they claim to be. You've deliberately lied about the seriousness of the alleged crime in order to make your case. That's textbook obsession.

 

The timeline of events as I understand them:

 

1) Victim alleges sexual assualt (no, not a rape, but yes, a sexual assault, and yes, still a very, very serious accusation) took place at the hands of an ND football player and reports this.

 

2) Friend of player texts alleged victim and says (paraphrasing here) you don't want to mess with an ND football player.

 

3) ND does nothing.

 

4) Alleged victim takes her own life.

 

5) Days later (almost two weeks after the report), ND finally gets around to interviewing the player.

 

It's not a case of whether or not ND punished the player. And it's not a case of whether the act itself actually took place (though real classy attacking the victim's character). It's a case of why did they wait so long to even INVESTIGATE.

 

It is also fair to link this to Penn State. Penn State didn't get in trouble because Sandusky committed horrible acts. They got in trouble because they failed to properly investigate the horrible acts and, by their failure to act, allowed further horrible acts to occur. No, this doesn't rise to the same level as Penn State, but in light of Penn State, ND fans should be taking this pretty damn seriously.

[cabiness42]

The timeline of events as I understand them:

 

1) Victim alleges sexual assualt (no, not a rape, but yes, a sexual assault, and yes, still a very, very serious accusation) took place at the hands of an ND football player and reports this.

 

2) Friend of player texts alleged victim and says (paraphrasing here) you don't want to mess with an ND football player.

 

3) ND does nothing.

 

4) Alleged victim takes her own life.

 

5) Days later (almost two weeks after the report), ND finally gets around to interviewing the player.

 

It's not a case of whether or not ND punished the player. And it's not a case of whether the act itself actually took place (though real classy attacking the victim's character). It's a case of why did they wait so long to even INVESTIGATE.

 

It is also fair to link this to Penn State. Penn State didn't get in trouble because Sandusky committed horrible acts. They got in trouble because they failed to properly investigate the horrible acts and, by their failure to act, allowed further horrible acts to occur. No, this doesn't rise to the same level as Penn State, but in light of Penn State, ND fans should be taking this pretty damn seriously.

 

Oh yeah, slow to investigate one incident by a week = slow to investigate a dozen incidents by several years.

 

Again, you have to exaggerate a ton just to make a point.

 

Oh, and who attacked the victim's character? Other than the player's defense attorney, and that's what defense attornies do.

 

[illinilaw08]

Oh yeah, slow to investigate one incident by a week = slow to investigate a dozen incidents by several years.

 

Again, you have to exaggerate a ton just to make a point.

 

Oh, and who attacked the victim's character? Other than the player's defense attorney, and that's what defense attornies do.

 

"Secondly, there are no witnesses to the crime itself, but there are witnesses who saw her acting very "friendly" with him and heard her invite him into her room. That isn't to say a crime wasn't committed, but under those circumstances there is no chance she gets convicted even if she isn't dead.

 

Thirdly, she had documented emotional/mental problems. It's not anybody else's fault that she chose to kill herself as a reaction to this situation, and once she did that, what small chance there was that any action would be taken against the player was gone."

 

Pretty sure that's attacking her character.

 

And yeah, if a sexual assault is alleged to occur, I sincerely hope you understand why waiting a week to investigate is an extremely big deal.

[cabiness42]

"Secondly, there are no witnesses to the crime itself, but there are witnesses who saw her acting very "friendly" with him and heard her invite him into her room. That isn't to say a crime wasn't committed, but under those circumstances there is no chance she gets convicted even if she isn't dead.

 

Thirdly, she had documented emotional/mental problems. It's not anybody else's fault that she chose to kill herself as a reaction to this situation, and once she did that, what small chance there was that any action would be taken against the player was gone."

 

Pretty sure that's attacking her character.

 

And yeah, if a sexual assault is alleged to occur, I sincerely hope you understand why waiting a week to investigate is an extremely big deal.

 

That she had documented emotional/mental problems is a fact, not a character attack, and it was determined to be a factor in why she killed herself.

 

Not saying that waiting a week to investigate was the right thing to do or the proper procedure, but there seems to be no perspective on the magnitude of this compared to everything else that goes on, such as Penn State.

 

If you have to nitpick like this to find fault with ND's athletics program, then that's a pretty good sign.

 

[illinilaw08]

That she had documented emotional/mental problems is a fact, not a character attack, and it was determined to be a factor in why she killed herself.

 

Not saying that waiting a week to investigate was the right thing to do or the proper procedure, but there seems to be no perspective on the magnitude of this compared to everything else that goes on, such as Penn State.

 

If you have to nitpick like this to find fault with ND's athletics program, then that's a pretty good sign.

 

First of all, when phrased in a way to try to make ND's failure to investigate seem ok, yes, it is a character attack. It was phrased in a way to try to put blame on the victim. Hey guys, she was asking for it because she was dancing with him! And she had emotional problems! In fact, it's not a huge leap to say that if a sexual assault did in fact take place, that type of trauma could have been enough to drive a person with emotional problems to commit suicide. Especially when it appears that no investigation is taking place.

 

Second, as to the bolded. It is not in any way shape or form nitpicking to say that, when a sexual assault is reported and it takes the police more than a week to even interview the dude accused of doing that, it's a huge problem. When you combine that with the text about not messing with ND football, you have an issue.

 

When Jamar Smith almost killed Brian Carlwell at Illinois in a drunk driving accident, there were a lot of Illinois fans on this board and others asking "who knew what when."

 

Sexual assault is sexual assault. It's a huge, huge deal. To try to say anything otherwise, or to try to defend the failure to investigate for a week (though I thought the timeline was longer than that) is a huge, huge deal. It's not nitpicking to say that. This has absolutely nothing to do with liking or not liking ND.

[cabiness42]

It wasn't intended to be phrased in a way to make ND's failure to investigate seem OK. It was background given as to why she killed herself which in turn cut the investigation short because at that point prosecution was pretty much impossible.

 

I also never said that she "deserved" anything because she was dancing with him and then invited him into her room alone, but the reality is those circumstances make a case very difficult to prosecute, and I think it's a very slippery slope to reach the point where we punish athletes for accusations that aren't the least bit provable.

 

I also never said that it's OK for the police to wait a week to investigate, but that by itself in a single incident is not symptomatic of a university covering up for a football player nor does it rise anywhere near the level of Penn State's culpability.

 

The text from the friend about not messing with ND football was turned over to the prosecutor's office. I don't know what else is supposed to happen with that.

 

And yes, it is nitpicking to take a poor decision by the campus police department in one instance to generalize to an entire University covering up crimes to protect its reputation.

[Quin]

Ok, fine.

 

Let's talk about how ND negligence caused a student to fall to his death.

 

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/39879682/ns/...e_dame_central/

[cabiness42]

Ok, fine.

 

Let's talk about how ND negligence caused a student to fall to his death.

 

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/39879682/ns/...e_dame_central/

 

Not disputing that. They were negligent and then they took responsibility for it. So what does that change?

[Quin]

Not disputing that. They were negligent and then they took responsibility for it. So what does that change?

 

When it happened I just remember a lot of fans saying it wasn't ND's fault and that the kid shouldn't have gone up there or something.

 

And when they took responsibility, it was like "our bad" and that was that. The mere fact that they continued practice like nothing happened was a disgrace.

[IlliniKrush]

Not disputing that. They were negligent and then they took responsibility for it. So what does that change?

The f*** they did.

 

Swarbrick's comments were an embarrassment.