southsider2k5 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 01:51 PM) He resubmitted his ballot with Indiana at six. In other crazy ESPN rankings though, Katz put butler sixth. And there you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 10:18 AM) Nah, UK and UNC were both thought to be great teams entering last year, they both had multiple NBA lottery prospects on them (so did UConn, who was 3 or 4 in most places, but they underachieved). I wouldn't say Kentucky was "exposed" by Indiana, Davis was in foul trouble, Jones had a horrible game and IU still needed a buzzer-beater to beat them at home. UNC a bit moreso with the UNLV game, but s*** happens over the course of 30-35 games. If the bar for a "powerhouse" is going undefeated, yeah, there hasn't been one in a while. That's a bit too high though. Admittedly you don't REALLY know until March like you said because teams do choke (2010 Kansas and Kentucky come to mind). However, people certainly crown them long before that. Perhaps "clear favorite" would be a better term than "powerhouse". There is one of those most years, and I really don't see one this year. To think Kentucky was thought to be in that same breath when the season started last year is ridiculous. Kentucky was said to have potential and it turned out they gelled together well and became a great team. But Kentucky's main talent were freshman, and no matter how highly ranked kids are, you don't know how they will turn out until they actually play. Considering them a powerhouse before the season started is revisionistic. Calipari's formula for playing freshmen all the time isn't going to pan out consistently. Not all will become teams and buy in like last year's group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Rex Hudler @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 03:22 AM) To think Kentucky was thought to be in that same breath when the season started last year is ridiculous. Kentucky was said to have potential and it turned out they gelled together well and became a great team. But Kentucky's main talent were freshman, and no matter how highly ranked kids are, you don't know how they will turn out until they actually play. Considering them a powerhouse before the season started is revisionistic. Calipari's formula for playing freshmen all the time isn't going to pan out consistently. Not all will become teams and buy in like last year's group. They were #2 pre-season last year because UNC was similarly loaded. That doesn't mean they weren't talking about how good they were. Once they beat UNC, the hype machine was on (notice my first two posts on this were clearly based on early-season results). They weren't all freshmen either, Terrence Jones and Doron Lamb were both highly productive sophomores and Darius Miller was a senior. That's why they were considered to be far better than this year's team (and this team was generally rated 3-5 entering the season). Edited December 18, 2012 by ZoomSlowik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 02:51 PM) He resubmitted his ballot with Indiana at six. In other crazy ESPN rankings though, Katz put butler sixth. Not that it matters at all, but how can anyone possibly justify putting Butler #6 and over Illinois when Illinois killed Butler on a neutral court? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 11:25 AM) They were #2 pre-season last year because UNC was similarly loaded. That doesn't mean they weren't talking about how good they were. Once they beat UNC, the hype machine was on (notice my first two posts on this were clearly based on early-season results). They weren't all freshmen either, Terrence Jones and Doron Lamb were both highly productive sophomores and Darius Miller was a senior. That's why they were considered to be far better than this year's team (and this team was generally rated 3-5 entering the season). Which is what a lot of people are forgetting. UK won't be able to repeat what they did without a few kids staying each year. The lockout helped them tremendously. Still, a healthy Marshall in the tournament last year, I truely believe UNC wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (He_Gawn @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 11:23 AM) Which is what a lot of people are forgetting. UK won't be able to repeat what they did without a few kids staying each year. The lockout helped them tremendously. Still, a healthy Marshall in the tournament last year, I truely believe UNC wins. It would definitely help if they could keep at least one starter. You can still recruit excellent players that aren't one-and-done types, they haven't had many of those though (I suppose you could argue MKG wasn't necessarily one-and-done when they recruited him). That said, if the classes are good enough, you might not need much help. They made the Final Four in 2010/11, and that was with Enes Kanter sitting the whole year. They might have cut down the nets if he played. Next year could be an interesting test case, especially if they get one more stud recruit. As for the latter, I'd still lean Kentucky because I feel like they had more scoring options in the backcourt. UNC was pretty damn talented though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 In non-Indiana/Illinois/Wisconsin news, Stefan Jankovic is 6'11! http://i.minus.com/ibbZLubBTUrJSv.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 11:42 AM) Not that it matters at all, but how can anyone possibly justify putting Butler #6 and over Illinois when Illinois killed Butler on a neutral court? Because people don't rank teams based on single games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 12:10 PM) Because people don't rank teams based on single games? Uhh, wouldn't putting Butler above Illinois be doing just that? They would clearly only put Butler above Illinois because of the Indiana game. Maybe you were being sarcastic. Not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Or maybe we've found the transitive property to be unreliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 12:49 PM) Or maybe we've found the transitive property to be unreliable. Not sure what this pertains to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 07:49 PM) Or maybe we've found the transitive property to be unreliable. Transitive property is for three teams. This is only two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 06:52 PM) Transitive property is for three teams. This is only two. In rankings, at any given time, there will be teams who were beaten by another team, that might end up ahead of them. They are comparing a whole field and the resumes of each team. Just beating someone doesn't guarantee that your resume is better, though it usually helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 01:57 PM) In rankings, at any given time, there will be teams who were beaten by another team, that might end up ahead of them. They are comparing a whole field and the resumes of each team. Just beating someone doesn't guarantee that your resume is better, though it usually helps. Yeah this. I haven't even looked at the latest rankings but whenever anyone has the argument of why so and so is ranked ahead of another so and so even though they lost to them I just roll my eyes. Especially in a sport like college basketball where teams are losing all of the time. Head to head matchups help the voters gauge how good each individual team is and it obviously affects their rankings, but just because team A beat team B does not mean team A will be ranked ahead of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 01:07 PM) Yeah this. I haven't even looked at the latest rankings but whenever anyone has the argument of why so and so is ranked ahead of another so and so even though they lost to them I just roll my eyes. Especially in a sport like college basketball where teams are losing all of the time. Head to head matchups help the voters gauge how good each individual team is and it obviously affects their rankings, but just because team A beat team B does not mean team A will be ranked ahead of them. Conference play hasnt even started. RANKINGS DONT MATTER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 07:08 PM) Conference play hasnt even started. RANKINGS DONT MATTER. this is correct. The only important part of Nov. Dec. is getting a feel for teammates, and making ridiculous dunks on inferior talent. If you don't do either of those things, your team probably sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 01:29 PM) this is correct. The only important part of Nov. Dec. is getting a feel for teammates, and making ridiculous dunks on inferior talent. If you don't do either of those things, your team probably sucks. Yes, like Illinois did to the inferior talent on Butler and Gonzaga....away from Champaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 08:36 PM) Yes, like Illinois did to the inferior talent on Butler and Gonzaga....away from Champaign. My post had nothing to do with with Illinois, but I'm glad to know this hyper-sensitivity ingrained in all U of I students and the people I know were not a crazy exception. For all U of I students, just insert this into every post of mine so I don't have to deal with it: Espn IS out to get you! Only U of I students can critique U of I basketball, the rest are just speaking out of an ACC bias! Everyone is out to get us. Edited December 18, 2012 by bmags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 02:18 PM) My post had nothing to do with with Illinois, but I'm glad to know this hyper-sensitivity ingrained in all U of I students and the people I know were not a crazy exception. For all U of I students, just insert this into every post of mine so I don't have to deal with it: Espn IS out to get you! Only U of I students can critique U of I basketball, the rest are just speaking out of an ACC bias! Everyone is out to get us. I thought we were discussing the rankings and in particular whether Butler should be ranked higher than Illinois. I don't attend UIUC and never will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I'll take it. Still too many turnovers and defensive lapses, but better than Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjshoe04 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Nice win at Dayton but it shouldn't have come down to a last shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 UNC is so awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Ha, I remember that from last year. Killed me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 If IU doesn't make the final four its an epic fail. They have all the pieces needed to win a title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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