The Miami Marlins thread

[Reddy]

Obviously Mark Buehrle getting the f*** out of town was the best thing to ever happen to the White Sox.

amazing.

[Quin]

Obviously Mark Buehrle getting the f*** out of town was the best thing to ever happen to the White Sox.

 

I always knew Mark was a cancer.

[southsider2k5]

I always knew Mark was a cancer.

 

Nothing tears a team apart faster than a tarpslider.

[RockRaines]

Nothing tears a team apart faster than a tarpslider.

I hear he wanted no other pitcher on the staff to hold runners the entire time he was here as well.

[LittleHurt05]

Ozzie going with the dreaded closer-by-committie. Maybe the closer formerly known as Leo Nunez can save the day.

[Quin]

Ozzie going with the dreaded closer-by-committie. Maybe the closer formerly known as Leo Nunez can save the day.

 

Look at Ozzie, always doing something by committee. So innovative!

[RockRaines]

Not even a single season, a single spring training.

 

 

‘‘Fundamental-wise, this is the best team I’ve ever played on,’’ Dunn said.

 

Dunn was here last year.

[greg775]

Dunn was here last year.

 

Dunn was here last year and had arguable the worst season in modern major league history.

[witesoxfan]

Dunn was here last year and had arguable the worst season in modern major league history.

 

Can't sneak anything by you.

 

FUN FACT OF THE DAY: At the All-Star break, Dunn, Konerko, Pierzynski, Rios, and Viciedo have combined to hit more home runs than the entire Miami Marlins team.

 

 

Oh, and just to further prove that Ozzie is a brilliant manager and not some idiot who is the constant force behind all of his teams underachieving, HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT THE MARLINS RECORD IS 41-44 BUT THEIR PYTHAGOREAN W-L IS 37-48? OZZIE THATS WHO

 

The most hilarious piece of all of this is that the Marlins are in the first year of their new stadium, and they are 12th out of the 16 NL teams in attendance.

 

 

 

and just so I can sneak one in...Ozzie is a terrible manager who should quit at the end of this year because of how ridiculously poorly he has managed that club. If you gave that team to about 29 different active managers and 10-15 retired managers, they'd be over .500. Hell, they may as well name Joey Cora the manager because it seems like he's doing all the work anyways.

 

VIVA LA OZZIE!

[Quin]

Can't sneak anything by you.

 

FUN FACT OF THE DAY: At the All-Star break, Dunn, Konerko, Pierzynski, Rios, and Viciedo have combined to hit more home runs than the entire Miami Marlins team.

 

 

Oh, and just to further prove that Ozzie is a brilliant manager and not some idiot who is the constant force behind all of his teams underachieving, HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT THE MARLINS RECORD IS 41-44 BUT THEIR PYTHAGOREAN W-L IS 37-48? OZZIE THATS WHO

 

The most hilarious piece of all of this is that the Marlins are in the first year of their new stadium, and they are 12th out of the 16 NL teams in attendance.

 

 

 

and just so I can sneak one in...Ozzie is a terrible manager who should quit at the end of this year because of how ridiculously poorly he has managed that club. If you gave that team to about 29 different active managers and 10-15 retired managers, they'd be over .500. Hell, they may as well name Joey Cora the manager because it seems like he's doing all the work anyways.

 

VIVA LA OZZIE!

 

 

[greg775]

Can't sneak anything by you.

 

FUN FACT OF THE DAY: At the All-Star break, Dunn, Konerko, Pierzynski, Rios, and Viciedo have combined to hit more home runs than the entire Miami Marlins team.

 

 

Oh, and just to further prove that Ozzie is a brilliant manager and not some idiot who is the constant force behind all of his teams underachieving, HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT THE MARLINS RECORD IS 41-44 BUT THEIR PYTHAGOREAN W-L IS 37-48? OZZIE THATS WHO

 

The most hilarious piece of all of this is that the Marlins are in the first year of their new stadium, and they are 12th out of the 16 NL teams in attendance.

 

 

 

and just so I can sneak one in...Ozzie is a terrible manager who should quit at the end of this year because of how ridiculously poorly he has managed that club. If you gave that team to about 29 different active managers and 10-15 retired managers, they'd be over .500. Hell, they may as well name Joey Cora the manager because it seems like he's doing all the work anyways.

 

VIVA LA OZZIE!

 

How has he mismanaged that club?

Heath Bell has been ridiculously bad.

A team w/out a closer is in trouble.

 

[kitekrazy]

Can't sneak anything by you.

 

FUN FACT OF THE DAY: At the All-Star break, Dunn, Konerko, Pierzynski, Rios, and Viciedo have combined to hit more home runs than the entire Miami Marlins team.

 

 

Oh, and just to further prove that Ozzie is a brilliant manager and not some idiot who is the constant force behind all of his teams underachieving, HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT THE MARLINS RECORD IS 41-44 BUT THEIR PYTHAGOREAN W-L IS 37-48? OZZIE THATS WHO

 

The most hilarious piece of all of this is that the Marlins are in the first year of their new stadium, and they are 12th out of the 16 NL teams in attendance.

 

 

 

and just so I can sneak one in...Ozzie is a terrible manager who should quit at the end of this year because of how ridiculously poorly he has managed that club. If you gave that team to about 29 different active managers and 10-15 retired managers, they'd be over .500. Hell, they may as well name Joey Cora the manager because it seems like he's doing all the work anyways.

 

VIVA LA OZZIE!

 

Sounds like they moved up. Who was the brain child that thought Miami would be a good place for a baseball team. The Dolphins rarely sold out during the Marino era. My dad use to go there after Christmas and would walk up to the booth to buy a playoff ticket.

[witesoxfan]

How has he mismanaged that club?

Heath Bell has been ridiculously bad.

A team w/out a closer is in trouble.

 

Heath Bell has given up 2 or more runs 10 times in an appearance this year. Fool me 9 times, shame on you. Fool me 10 times, shame on me.

 

He did the same thing with Bobby Jenks in 2010 and it, along with his stubbornness in wanting Kotsay over Thome to be a full time player (Kotsay, you might remember, was as good at his peak as Thome was when he was, say, 37? And during his peak years, he was mostly valuable because he played a good CF. Lot of defensive value coming out of a guy DHing lemme tell you what Wimpy). He still doesn't know how to manage a bullpen period, and when he's not given a ridiculously talented group of pitchers that Williams brings in pretty much every single year, you are almost always going to be left with one of the worst bullpens in the NL, and lo and behold, the Miami Marlins are 14th in the NL in reliever ERA.

 

And do you think perhaps there's a problem with the way he motivates and prepares players day in and day out? For all the hubbub about the park being a pitcher's paradise, it's really only hard to hit home runs there, because it's actually scoring pretty well this year. Yet Jose Reyes is about to have his worst offensive season since his rookie year. Hanley Ramirez, who has been healthy all year (well, until he punched a fan and cut open his hand) and is a career .301 hitter, is hitting .248. Gaby Sanchez, who in his first 2 seasons hit .270 and was an adequate 1B, was hitting .202 and was demoted to the minor leagues. John Buck, who's never been the greatest of hitters for average but can knock a few out and be a relatively good offensive catcher, has an awfully familar looking batting line after 64 games (hint: SCROLL DOWN).

 

Note that I'm not attacking the guy who he's sent up to the plate 105 times this year in Chris Coghlan, each time lowering his average closer and closer to my skin-and-bones thin 5'6" brother's weight, because he's been without his CFer. You would have thought that he could get try and get creative and maybe play Stanton in CF a bit, even if he's bad out there, so you can get someone who atleast has a bat in the lineup as opposed to a guy so bad in Coghlan that it is literally the epitome of a blackhole every time he comes up in the order. Oops, I sorta did attack that, but I'm not holding it against him.

 

There are only 3 guys in that lineup having even moderately good seasons, and considering Logan Morrison is in his 3rd year, yet has seen his OPS+ slip yet again, I tend to leave him in the "treading water" section as opposed to the "good" section.

 

He's atleast found a AAAA bench player with a long, funny last name to catch fire, because through 96 plate appearances, Justin Ruggiano has been good. Regression will set in quickly enough and he'll fall by the wayside eventually.

 

There's about 1 thing Ozzie Guillen even sort of does well, and that's manager a rotation, and even there, he has a guy who started for him opening day who put up an ERA of 2.64 in his previous 70 starts who is sitting at 4.06 right now.

 

"But, but, but, none of that is Ozzie Guillen's fault! That's on the bullpen coach, and the hitting coach, and the pitching coach."

 

Sure, I'll play along. But guess whose job it is to get on his coaches to get the players to work on what got them to where they are, to help these coaches get ideas on how to get players out of slumps and get them going, and to get creative about lineup ideas and how to score runs, and to figure out how to manage his pitching staff so he can hold a lead that his starting pitching and offense have given the team, and to just generally make the entire clubhouse strong and cohesive?

 

Mr. Domino Drunky Guillen's job, that's who.

 

And yet, the saving grace of Ozzie Guillen's entire 8 year tenure in Chicago - even when he was letting Will Ohman face a good righty or leaving the starting pitcher in too long or hitting Mark Kotsay 5th or 6th or anywhere but 9th or on the bench - was that he took the pressure off his players, particularly his veterans, and put it on himself so they could focus on the game and the media could focus on Ozzie.

 

"We didn't lose because of the play at the plate. We lost because Heath Bell couldn't do the job," manager Ozzie Guillen said

 

You stay classy, Domino Drunky.

Edited July 11, 2012 by witesoxfan

[greg775]

Heath Bell has given up 2 or more runs 10 times in an appearance this year. Fool me 9 times, shame on you. Fool me 10 times, shame on me.

 

He did the same thing with Bobby Jenks in 2010 and it, along with his stubbornness in wanting Kotsay over Thome to be a full time player (Kotsay, you might remember, was as good at his peak as Thome was when he was, say, 37? And during his peak years, he was mostly valuable because he played a good CF. Lot of defensive value coming out of a guy DHing lemme tell you what Wimpy). He still doesn't know how to manage a bullpen period, and when he's not given a ridiculously talented group of pitchers that Williams brings in pretty much every single year, you are almost always going to be left with one of the worst bullpens in the NL, and lo and behold, the Miami Marlins are 14th in the NL in reliever ERA.

 

And do you think perhaps there's a problem with the way he motivates and prepares players day in and day out? For all the hubbub about the park being a pitcher's paradise, it's really only hard to hit home runs there, because it's actually scoring pretty well this year. Yet Jose Reyes is about to have his worst offensive season since his rookie year. Hanley Ramirez, who has been healthy all year (well, until he punched a fan and cut open his hand) and is a career .301 hitter, is hitting .248. Gaby Sanchez, who in his first 2 seasons hit .270 and was an adequate 1B, was hitting .202 and was demoted to the minor leagues. John Buck, who's never been the greatest of hitters for average but can knock a few out and be a relatively good offensive catcher, has an awfully familar looking batting line after 64 games (hint: SCROLL DOWN).

 

Note that I'm not attacking the guy who he's sent up to the plate 105 times this year in Chris Coghlan, each time lowering his average closer and closer to my skin-and-bones thin 5'6" brother's weight, because he's been without his CFer. You would have thought that he could get try and get creative and maybe play Stanton in CF a bit, even if he's bad out there, so you can get someone who atleast has a bat in the lineup as opposed to a guy so bad in Coghlan that it is literally the epitome of a blackhole every time he comes up in the order. Oops, I sorta did attack that, but I'm not holding it against him.

 

There are only 3 guys in that lineup having even moderately good seasons, and considering Logan Morrison is in his 3rd year, yet has seen his OPS+ slip yet again, I tend to leave him in the "treading water" section as opposed to the "good" section.

 

He's atleast found a AAAA bench player with a long, funny last name to catch fire, because through 96 plate appearances, Justin Ruggiano has been good. Regression will set in quickly enough and he'll fall by the wayside eventually.

 

There's about 1 thing Ozzie Guillen even sort of does well, and that's manager a rotation, and even there, he has a guy who started for him opening day who put up an ERA of 2.64 in his previous 70 starts who is sitting at 4.06 right now.

 

"But, but, but, none of that is Ozzie Guillen's fault! That's on the bullpen coach, and the hitting coach, and the pitching coach."

 

Sure, I'll play along. But guess whose job it is to get on his coaches to get the players to work on what got them to where they are, to help these coaches get ideas on how to get players out of slumps and get them going, and to get creative about lineup ideas and how to score runs, and to figure out how to manage his pitching staff so he can hold a lead that his starting pitching and offense have given the team, and to just generally make the entire clubhouse strong and cohesive?

 

Mr. Domino Drunky Guillen's job, that's who.

 

And yet, the saving grace of Ozzie Guillen's entire 8 year tenure in Chicago - even when he was letting Will Ohman face a good righty or leaving the starting pitcher in too long or hitting Mark Kotsay 5th or 6th or anywhere but 9th or on the bench - was that he took the pressure off his players, particularly his veterans, and put it on himself so they could focus on the game and the media could focus on Ozzie.

 

 

 

You stay classy, Domino Drunky.

 

I think there are rules against attacking people. Domino Drunky is kind of mean. Your attack takes away from your well thought out arguments.

Edited July 11, 2012 by greg775

[caulfield12]

Greg, u knew you weren't going to do a line-by-line rebuttal.

 

He's admitted he drinks (excessively) after most road games in his hotel.

 

He's proudly admitted letting his coaches do most of the work and not paying attention to stats or modern managerial techniques...even though he's one of the most "textbook" or by the book predictable managers in recent years you could ever imagine (except for the ones which are illogical, like Pierre over Viciedo, Kotsay/Jones over Dunn, not benching Dunn or Rios last year, etc.)

 

He was just trying to throw some catchy alliteration out there to punctuate his post persuasively.

 

I thought it was one of the better attack jobs on Guillen all year, but the thing is...is it unfair? It's definitely a criticism, but of all the things he wrote, which ones can you disagree with in a coherent way, except for taking exception to the language used?

 

Those are rules for attacking other posters, by the way, not a public figure like Guillen.

Edited July 11, 2012 by caulfield12

[Quin]

I think there are rules against attacking people. Domino Drunky is kind of mean. Your attack takes away from your well thought out arguments.

 

Translation: You have defeated me, but I'm going to ignore it.

[southsider2k5]

Dunn was here last year.

 

You don't even need Hawk to say it, as you can see it on the field. Think of pitchers learning a slide step, guys missing the cut off man, blown rund-downs, bad stolen base attemps, throwing to the wrong bases, etc. Now compare that to last year.

[Reddy]

Greg, since your only defense is "a team is bad without a closer, and heath bell has been underperforming", let me deal with that in particular.

 

Why has he left Heath Bell in there to close even after countless blown saves, and the fact that he obviously is not in the right place mentally or mechanically to close right now?

 

You'll say loyalty. You may even say it's because he's the free agent, highly paid closer and that's his job, so that's why Ozzie's sticking with him even though it's a bad decision.

 

Here's what I say: Ozzie is too afraid (yes AFRAID) to stick his neck out and make a bold move, because it might not work. So he rides his free agent closer with a great track record, just HOPING Bell will get things together so Ozzie will look good for "sticking with his man" through thick and thin. Ozzie is all about image. You can't tell me otherwise. He said that HE was the face of the Chicago White Sox franchise. Image is all he cares about. Unfortunately for him, Bell ISN'T turning it around, so now Ozzie is FORCED to actually make a f***ing decision, and thus his meltdowns. He doesn't want to be wrong! He doesn't want to make a bad choice and have it be HIS fault, so he sticks with Bell so it can be the CLOSER'S fault and not the manager's. See how that works? He's a coward and a terrible manager, and it's HIS FAULT the Marlins are bad because he's unable to make the moves that need to be made, just to protect his own perception of his IMAGE.

 

Pathetic.

[LittleHurt05]

How has he mismanaged that club?

Heath Bell has been ridiculously bad.

A team w/out a closer is in trouble.

 

The White Sox had a ridiculously bad closer in April too, but they managed to work it out.

[Milkman delivers]

Translation: You have defeated me, but I'm going to ignore it.

 

[ILMOU]

How has he mismanaged that club?

Heath Bell has been ridiculously bad.

A team w/out a closer is in trouble.

 

A team w/o a closer changes said closer, regardless of what he's being paid, before an entire season is trashed.

 

This is obvious to all but you, and Ozzie.

[StrangeSox]

Why has he left Heath Bell in there to close even after countless blown saves, and the fact that he obviously is not in the right place mentally or mechanically to close right now?

 

The GM brought in the closer, nothing Oz can do about it. He's not allowed to bench players or set the roster.

[G&T]

The GM brought in the closer, nothing Oz can do about it. He's not allowed to bench players or set the roster.

 

And Oz has figured out that trick. Play the guys the GM gives you and no blame can befall the manager. Even when KW told him that he can bench Dunn and Rios, Ozzie didn't do it.

[greg775]

Greg, u knew you weren't going to do a line-by-line rebuttal.

Those are rules for attacking other posters, by the way, not a public figure like Guillen.

I'll take a vote. Do you all really want me to go thru that long, well thought out post point by point and re-but? I will if you want that. I dont think people want me to do that.

 

You don't even need Hawk to say it, as you can see it on the field. Think of pitchers learning a slide step, guys missing the cut off man, blown rund-downs, bad stolen base attemps, throwing to the wrong bases, etc. Now compare that to last year.

I love hawk, but he is going to make the current guy look good, which is fine. I like Ventura as well.

 

A team w/o a closer changes said closer, regardless of what he's being paid, before an entire season is trashed.

 

This is obvious to all but you, and Ozzie.

Ugh. This argument confounds me. My god. they bring in a closer for a gadzillion dollars; you have to pitch the guy in the closer's rule. It's the closer trashing their season, not ozzie. Now I guess it's to the point he's going to have to do something; Oz has indicated that, but he STILL doesn't want to replace Bell. My guess is Bell will start the second half as the closer, as he should. See what happens. Or closer by committee, but you got to go with the high paid acquisition; why can't u guys see that??

It's called a TEAM; gm acquires players; you play them. Now the closer can be kept out of a game or two, but until the GM disposes of him, he's the high paid guy who plays. This is sports; this is life.

[Quin]

I'll take a vote. Do you all really want me to go thru that long, well thought out post point by point and re-but? I will if you want that. I dont think people want me to do that.

 

 

I love hawk, but he is going to make the current guy look good, which is fine. I like Ventura as well.

 

 

Ugh. This argument confounds me. My god. they bring in a closer for a gadzillion dollars; you have to pitch the guy in the closer's rule. It's the closer trashing their season, not ozzie. Now I guess it's to the point he's going to have to do something; Oz has indicated that, but he STILL doesn't want to replace Bell. My guess is Bell will start the second half as the closer, as he should. See what happens. Or closer by committee, but you got to go with the high paid acquisition; why can't u guys see that??

It's called a TEAM; gm acquires players; you play them. Now the closer can be kept out of a game or two, but until the GM disposes of him, he's the high paid guy who plays. This is sports; this is life.

 

Your argument confounds me.

 

The Giants sure as hell didn't rely on Zito.