The Miami Marlins thread

[caulfield12]

I think it's my way of pointing out that it matters not what you think of Ozzie or what I think of Ozzie. He's rich and in the large scheme of things it doesn't matter because if they fire him, he'll be fine.

 

Then why even bother to defend him, he wouldn't care and would probably get upset and say he doesn't need anyone to fight his battles for him, lol.

 

 

 

Guillen did get into a minor argument with a longtime reporter -- "If we're friends, who needs enemies," Guillen said at one point -- but when it came time to meet with the phalanx of Chicago reporters, he was his usual loquacious self, only ducking a question about Nats phenom Bryce Harper. He spoke for 20 minutes, peppering his comments with laughs and expletives.

 

 

After he talked to reporters, he hugged White Sox batting practice pitcher Rob Tamen and screamed with joy when he saw ex-Cubs general Jim Hendry, who is scouting for the Yankees.

 

 

As Mark Buehrle said, "He's the same guy. He hasn't changed."

espnchicago.com

Edited July 18, 2012 by caulfield12

[soxmaniac!]

I think it's my way of pointing out that it matters not what you think of Ozzie or what I think of Ozzie. He's rich and in the large scheme of things it doesn't matter because if they fire him, he'll be fine.

 

this is going to be the last resort of skip bayless when tebow is about to lose his job in the nfl

[caulfield12]

•Ozzie is never going to invite general manager Kenny Williams or pitching coach Don Cooper over for a sleepover, but the White Sox are always going to be in his heart and on his mind.

 

No. 13 played shortstop for the Sox for 13 years and came back and managed them for eight more seasons. In 2005 Guillen piloted the White Sox to the World Series.

 

Yes, it was a messy split. But it was a necessary one, and Guillen reiterated it’s time to move forward.

 

“I turned the page,” he said. “I miss being around a few people, yes. Of course. Listen, it’s like getting divorced and getting married again. What are you going to say? Oh, wow, look at my wife, she has another boyfriend.

 

“No, I’m not that type of guy. I got remarried and I wish my wife the best of luck.”

 

The White Sox are his first wife, and Guillen is never going to forget the link.

 

“I am a true White Sox,” he said. “Put it this way, 21 years with the same organization. Nobody can say (bleep) about me in the White Sox organization. Nobody. I am a true White Sox. I spent more years with the White Sox than anybody out there. The White Sox will always be in my heart.”

 

•Given his many accomplishments with the Sox, I suggested to Ozzie that it’s just a matter of time before he gets his statue out on the outfield concourse and has his No. 13 retired.

 

“I already have a statue there,” Guillen said. “Every time you walk to (U.S.) Cellular Field, the first (bleep) you see is me holding the trophy. That’s the biggest statue you can have.”

 

True, but shouldn’t the White Sox make it a little more official?

 

“Yeah, I think it’s important for me because one of my best friend’s statues is out there — Harold Baines. Pudge (Carlton Fisk). Frank (Thomas). All those guys.

 

“I think if the day comes, it will be very welcome. I hope they do it before I die. It would nice.

 

“Do I expect it? It’s up to the owner. Hopefully, Jerry (Reinsdorf) is the owner. I don’t think that statue is going to be there pretty soon. I don’t expect that. But the statue I want, I already got it, it’s a (World Series) ring.

 

“And every time they walk to the ballpark, Ozzie’s face is going to be there. That’s the biggest statue I have. If it comes, it comes. If not, you can’t do too much about it.”

 

Scot Gregor, dailyherald.com/sports

[greg775]

Of all the things you people hate that Ozzie has said, why can't you embrace what he said today?

 

 

“I am a true White Sox,” he said. “Put it this way, 21 years with the same organization. Nobody can say (bleep) about me in the White Sox organization. Nobody. I am a true White Sox. I spent more years with the White Sox than anybody out there. The White Sox will always be in my heart.”

 

How can you guys/gals turn on this man? He bleeds White Sox red.

[southsideirish71]

Of all the things you people hate that Ozzie has said, why can't you embrace what he said today?

 

 

“I am a true White Sox,” he said. “Put it this way, 21 years with the same organization. Nobody can say (bleep) about me in the White Sox organization. Nobody. I am a true White Sox. I spent more years with the White Sox than anybody out there. The White Sox will always be in my heart.”

 

How can you guys/gals turn on this man? He bleeds White Sox red.

 

The twinkle of his eyes and his electric smile have you in a trance Greg. Embrace logic.

[greg775]

The twinkle of his eyes and his electric smile have you in a trance Greg. Embrace logic.

 

Let me try this one final time.

Why do you folks despise our WS winning manager?

Take out the "quitting on the team" and actions of his "kids" and you tell me what he's done so badly that makes you hate him.

Don't forget this is a franchise with other villains like unlikeable Kenny Williams and the save-my-own-back-man, Mr. Cooper.

[GoodAsGould]

Let me try this one final time.

Why do you folks despise our WS winning manager?

Take out the "quitting on the team" and actions of his "kids" and you tell me what he's done so badly that makes you hate him.

Don't forget this is a franchise with other villains like unlikeable Kenny Williams and the save-my-own-back-man, Mr. Cooper.

 

Why do you despise our WS winning GM and Pitching Coach? And what are you implying, Cooper sabotaged Ozzie his last season here or something.....

 

 

I don't hate Ozzie, I will need a few years before I warm up to him but I don't understand why you defend him so much but not the guys that are still with us part of a first place team that probably should be worse than last seasons team given the amount of injuries/rookies.

[greg775]

Why do you despise our WS winning GM and Pitching Coach? And what are you implying, Cooper sabotaged Ozzie his last season here or something.....

 

 

I don't hate Ozzie, I will need a few years before I warm up to him but I don't understand why you defend him so much but not the guys that are still with us part of a first place team that probably should be worse than last seasons team given the amount of injuries/rookies.

 

I don't despise them, but they have their faults, too, and like Ozzie were looking out for No. 1. I like all members of our current team, though currently I'm not crazy about Matt (Light me up) Thornton.

Cooper went crying to Jerry or KW, I forget which one, wanting his new contract.

In answer to your last question, I will defend the guys on our current team as well. I like this team.

Edited July 18, 2012 by greg775

[GoodAsGould]

I don't despise them, but they have their faults, too, and like Ozzie were looking out for No. 1. I like all members of our current team, though currently I'm not crazy about Matt (Light me up) Thornton.

Cooper went crying to Jerry or KW, I forget which one, wanting his new contract.

In answer to your last question, I will defend the guys on our current team as well. I like this team.

 

Did he go crying or did he ask for a new contract, you make it sound so negative but didn't Ozzie do the same thing you don't portray him so negatively. And of course everyone has faults nobody even the great Theo Epstein are perfect, but you sure do hate a lot on KW when he deserves maybe more credit with how you have downplayed a managers impact in some of your posts.

 

Ozzie has some positives but with the type of guy he is for better or worse he will eventually overstay his welcome and that is what happened with the Wsox, this is the first year without him it was an ugly divorce so of course there will be some hate for the guy. I don't know if you were around but Mike Dikta was similar to a lesser extent and now he is a legend.

[caulfield12]

Let me try this one final time.

Why do you folks despise our WS winning manager?

Take out the "quitting on the team" and actions of his "kids" and you tell me what he's done so badly that makes you hate him.

Don't forget this is a franchise with other villains like unlikeable Kenny Williams and the save-my-own-back-man, Mr. Cooper.

 

He's been with the White Sox 28 years, Greg.

 

The White Sox have led the majors in quality starts since 2003.

 

As Stone mentioned last night in the broadcast, why is it that almost all of the pitchers who come to the White Sox from other organizations where they are struggling turn things around, and most pretty immediately?

 

So...you've worked for your company for 28 years, you have a new GM for the last 8 or 9, why would your job status have ANYTHING to do with the GM? If you are the star employee but a specialist in your field, why should you quit or take one for the team or fall on your own sword because the GM of your company is having problems with the ownership (in this case, JR and KW)???

 

You're telling me you would quit to show symbolic support for Ozzie, when Ozzie wasn't even the one who hired you? After that same GM started renegotiating for a new contract without telling anyone what he was doing...and told everyone "let all the coaches sweat." What WOULD YOU DO GREG, in that same situation? Explain to me what Cooper OWED Ozzie there? If anything, he wanted to reconfirm his loyalty and desire to stay to JR and KW, and show he wasn't looking to leave to go anywhere else. Isn't being loyal to JR and the Sox a GOOD thing here? How is it back-stabbing? Ozzie backstabbed Jeff Cox, he just left him hanging out to dry and now he doesn't have a job, does he? Is Mr. Super Rich Ozzie paying for Cox's kids to attend their private school this year with him out of a job? I think not.

 

Why do you think Baines is still coaching there, wasn't he a backstabber, too?

 

No, they're both more loyal to the White Sox UNIFORM than any one single person or manager.

 

Ozzie was talking about his 21 years...and he made his own point. Those people like Baines and Cooper always have put the organization over their own individual agendas. Cooper's had numerous opportunities since 2005 to go to other teams (like the Yankees), probably for more money....why do you think he's turned all those opportunities down, especially when he's from NYC, born and raised?

 

Cooper was STILL going to be the White Sox pitching coach, even if BOTH KW and Ozzie were gone. Period.

 

 

Guillen was booed vociferously during an eighth inning pitching change, the loudest Cubs fans got on a sweltering night.

 

He responded by pointing to his ring finger, a reference to his two World Series rings with the Marlins and White Sox

www.chicagotribune.com/sports

Edited July 18, 2012 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Let me try this one final time.

Why do you folks despise our WS winning manager?

Take out the "quitting on the team" and actions of his "kids" and you tell me what he's done so badly that makes you hate him.

Don't forget this is a franchise with other villains like unlikeable Kenny Williams and the save-my-own-back-man, Mr. Cooper.

 

There is the problem. You can't take those things out. They happened. His ego also ruined years worth of players and acquisitions that could have added to that trophy case. But it was more important for Ozzie to be right, and to be the center of attention, than to get the best out of guys like Nick Swisher, Javy Vazquez, Alex Rios, and Adam Dunn. It was more important for his kid to get a lot of money and a high draft position than what was going on in the field. The Sox even hired one of his kids to scout, just to shut him up, and instead he blasts the organization.

 

You want a villain, you are listening to him butcher the English language. We could have had way more than just 2005 if Ozzie could STFU every once in a while, and put himself second, instead of first. All Ozzie is, is a realty show whore anymore. At least when he played baseball and first started managing, he seemed to care somewhat about the game. Now he is trying to bully 19 year olds to get a few more seconds on SportsCenter.

 

Not only was it time for Ozzie to leave, the longer he is gone, the more I am convinced he f***ed us out of at least division titles, and maybe more, over his last few years. You can hate on Kenny and Coop, but they are still here, and guess what, the Sox are winning with half of the talent they had last year.

[Kyyle23]

There is the problem. You can't take those things out. They happened. His ego also ruined years worth of players and acquisitions that could have added to that trophy case. But it was more important for Ozzie to be right, and to be the center of attention, than to get the best out of guys like Nick Swisher, Javy Vazquez, Alex Rios, and Adam Dunn. It was more important for his kid to get a lot of money and a high draft position than what was going on in the field. The Sox even hired one of his kids to scout, just to shut him up, and instead he blasts the organization.

 

You want a villain, you are listening to him butcher the English language. We could have had way more than just 2005 if Ozzie could STFU every once in a while, and put himself second, instead of first. All Ozzie is, is a realty show whore anymore. At least when he played baseball and first started managing, he seemed to care somewhat about the game. Now he is trying to bully 19 year olds to get a few more seconds on SportsCenter.

 

Not only was it time for Ozzie to leave, the longer he is gone, the more I am convinced he f***ed us out of at least division titles, and maybe more, over his last few years. You can hate on Kenny and Coop, but they are still here, and guess what, the Sox are winning with half of the talent they had last year.

 

but he is rich

[caulfield12]

There is the problem. You can't take those things out. They happened. His ego also ruined years worth of players and acquisitions that could have added to that trophy case. But it was more important for Ozzie to be right, and to be the center of attention, than to get the best out of guys like Nick Swisher, Javy Vazquez, Alex Rios, and Adam Dunn. It was more important for his kid to get a lot of money and a high draft position than what was going on in the field. The Sox even hired one of his kids to scout, just to shut him up, and instead he blasts the organization.

 

You want a villain, you are listening to him butcher the English language. We could have had way more than just 2005 if Ozzie could STFU every once in a while, and put himself second, instead of first. All Ozzie is, is a realty show whore anymore. At least when he played baseball and first started managing, he seemed to care somewhat about the game. Now he is trying to bully 19 year olds to get a few more seconds on SportsCenter.

 

Not only was it time for Ozzie to leave, the longer he is gone, the more I am convinced he f***ed us out of at least division titles, and maybe more, over his last few years. You can hate on Kenny and Coop, but they are still here, and guess what, the Sox are winning with half of the talent they had last year.

 

2010 for sure....not sure if we can blame Ozzie for 2006, though.

 

Swapping out Thome for Kotsay/Jones alone tipped the balance against us.

 

That said, the 2010 Twins team was a monster with RISP all season long...but if we had Thome and they didn't, it would have been a nailbiter.

 

 

Just as importantly, having Ozzie around totally screwed up the Swisher relationship. Ventura would have handled that one a lot better, undoubtedly. We could have used the money we spent on Dunn for any number of things had we been able to keep Swisher as a viable player.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

2010 for sure....not sure if we can blame Ozzie for 2006, though.

 

Swapping out Thome for Kotsay/Jones alone tipped the balance against us.

 

That said, the 2010 Twins team was a monster with RISP all season long...but if we had Thome and they didn't, it would have been a nailbiter.

 

Just as importantly, having Ozzie around totally screwed up the Swisher relationship. Ventura would have handled that one a lot better, undoubtedly. We could have used the money we spent on Dunn for any number of things had we been able to keep Swisher as a viable player.

 

Think of the players that came in went in those two deals, and tell me the effect that had on the franchise. The problem wasn't Swisher, because as soon as he left, he was fine again.

[Balta1701]

2010 for sure....not sure if we can blame Ozzie for 2006, though.

Will go to my grave saying that we'd have won the division if we'd actually played Anderson in CF as a regular starter rather than as a part time platoon player with Mackowiak's incredibly awful defense killing us out there. Yes, the advanced stats don't say it cost us more than a game or so...every time Mack was out there, he killed us.

[caulfield12]

Has the story ever came out about who really had the biggest issue with Daniel Hudson?

 

Was it Ozzie, Cooper or KW?

 

That's the most refreshing thing about Ventura. Other than maybe Fukudome, there wasn't a single player this year who was unhappy. Maybe Santiago's confused about his role, but you have to believe Cooper, Nieves and Ventura have made him feel he still could or will be important to the team the last 72 games.

[chw42]

Has the story ever came out about who really had the biggest issue with Daniel Hudson?

 

Was it Ozzie, Cooper or KW?

 

That's the most refreshing thing about Ventura. Other than maybe Fukudome, there wasn't a single player this year who was unhappy. Maybe Santiago's confused about his role, but you have to believe Cooper, Nieves and Ventura have made him feel he still could or will be important to the team the last 72 games.

 

I think that was on Coop.

 

But in even farther hindsight, he wasn't wrong. Hudson's having arm problems. It was Coop who thought Hudson had high maintenance mechanics.

[Pants Rowland]

Will go to my grave saying that we'd have won the division if we'd actually played Anderson in CF as a regular starter rather than as a part time platoon player with Mackowiak's incredibly awful defense killing us out there. Yes, the advanced stats don't say it cost us more than a game or so...every time Mack was out there, he killed us.

 

Agree. What I remember is the offense was much better than 2005, at least for the first half, but the bullpen was not nearly as strong. The OF defense in the second half was killing us, shortening the starters innings and taxing the bullpen even further. Everything just ground to a halt by the end of the season.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

I'll be in attendance today and tomorrow if the jungle weather decides to go away for a change. I heard soundbites of Buehrle commenting on what the Sox have pulled off to this point. Just really weird to hear. I haven't really followed what he's done up to this point like I wanted to going in to the season. I kind of lost the desire to watch the NL when it became apparent that the Phillies phucked up.

 

Edit- Stubhubbed away today's tickets- made $25 a seat for ass seats, and it looks like it's going to storm to boot.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Swingandalongonetoleft

[RockRaines]

I think alot of posters on here had alot bigger hopes for the Sox during Ozzie's tenure and feel like we underperformed. Its great we won a WS title, but didnt we all expect ALOT more?

[cabiness42]

Agree. What I remember is the offense was much better than 2005, at least for the first half, but the bullpen was not nearly as strong. The OF defense in the second half was killing us, shortening the starters innings and taxing the bullpen even further. Everything just ground to a halt by the end of the season.

 

I've always maintained that, in the AL, you should be able to generate enough offense from your DH/1B/3B/LF/RF that you can afford to have an offensive liability who is a stud defender at either SS or CF, and maybe even both.

 

If Mackowiak over Anderson improves your team offense significantly, then your team offense is pretty bad to start with, and then why bother?

 

[soxmaniac!]

Agree. What I remember is the offense was much better than 2005, at least for the first half, but the bullpen was not nearly as strong. The OF defense in the second half was killing us, shortening the starters innings and taxing the bullpen even further. Everything just ground to a halt by the end of the season.

ozzie's stubbornness when it comes to playing certain players is just awful. our CF defense in 2006 still gives me nightmares.

 

honestly, there is no point in arguing about ozzie's baseball managing skills with greg. he cant even defend ozzie's managerial skills. he just loves ozzie the person, so he will defend him to the alter (somewhere greg is crossing his fingers) and all the way to death.

[SOXOBAMA]

Buehrle will be on Waddle and Silvy in a few mins

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

I think alot of posters on here had alot bigger hopes for the Sox during Ozzie's tenure and feel like we underperformed. Its great we won a WS title, but didnt we all expect ALOT more?

 

I was pretty much at the point of clearing my schedule for October in 2006 walking out of the park after the Cardinals series. I would have been right to do it too...if I was a Cardinals fan.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Swingandalongonetoleft

[WHarris1]

Holy cow...

 

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale

The #RedSox and #Marlins discussing blockbuster: Carl Crawford and prospect to Miami for Hanley Ramirez and Heath Bell. #MLB