bigruss Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 12:08 PM) How about the absolutely brutal decision in Game 3 of the World Series by Ozzie to bring in the injured, rusty Dustin Hermanson to face Jason Lane instead of Jenks? Lane doubled to tie up the score in the 8th and sent the game to extras. Dusty failed Ozzie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 11:26 AM) He can't answer that without mentioning 2005, so he'll keep ignoring you and responding to other posts with answers about 2005. QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 01:47 AM) Greg, give me one season Ozzie did well in other than '05. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gooch Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Evaluating every decision Ozzie has ever made isn't gonna prove anything right now. Every manager will have his share of good decisions and his share of bad decisions. Ozzie made enough good decisions in 05 to help win the WS. Thats a fact. He made enough good decisions to warrant being the manager for quite awhile. Then he made really bad personal decisions to let his family do whatever they want and it cost him the Sox gig and it will cost him the Marlins gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 6, 2012 -> 02:23 PM) 1.) My answer: Loria is crazy. I guess he wanted Ozzie to self mutiliate himself with words, blaming himself over and over for the season instead of being honest that he was headed to Spain. This backs my point that Loria was flat out enraged when Ozzie called out his firing of many other managers. I'm sure at this point Ozzie would love to get paid for three years of no work if Loria fires him. IMO Loria is torn right now. He doesn't want to pay Ozzie, but he sure wants him out of sight. Ozzie had the audacity to call him out like Girardi did. Bye bye. 3. Ozzie is infatuated with the money, but so are most all baseball players. They live in a dream world. Ozzie's ego and love of the media is a problem for any owner or GM who also has a huge huge ego. He'd be better off in a place like KC with dull David Glass. He was fine in Chicago with Jerry, but the conflict was with equally ego-driven Kenny. I will say Ozzie probably needs to work on his English this offseason and be lead analyst for Fox or ESPN for a year or two. He's still a good manager and funny as s*** in interviews, but guys like Loria can't stand forking over a paycheck to a guy like Ozzie who they deem ungrateful if that is the right word. Too bad, Loria, you hired him. Now they are pointing out all these things they don't like about Ozzie. These are the same things that make him lovable when he is winning. Didn't Loria count all the 'f***s' Ozzie blurted out in that first speech to the team in spring training? Loria was laughing like everybody else. Now the Marlins' record sucks and it is 'unprofessional?' Give me a break. I think you're too quick to blame Loria here. You are correct in that he should have seen what he was getting into at the beginning of the season instead of trying to back out know but what's done is done. I think the only people that were laughing were JR and KW because they actually found someone to take Ozzie off their hands. I'm not so sure any of the other 28 owners will make that same mistake after he's finished in Florida. QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 6, 2012 -> 02:29 PM) The collapse would have been a lot more fun. Can you imagine the things Ozzie would have said about the Royals as Chen and Guthrie beat us game after game? And during that 1-9 death march at the end? At least it would have been exciting, not this funeral-like event of the last 3 weeks. I can't believe you would seriously think that having Ozzie would make a season-ending collapse "more fun". It's when you say things like this that people accuse you of being more of an Ozzie fan than a White Sox fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 02:20 AM) This was a playoff team this year (once Dunn and Rios and AJP showed they came to play right out of the gate) and didn't even make the playoffs. Yet Robin is beloved just cause he never opened his mouth and the Sox were out of the news all year. Makes no sense to me. This year was a colossal failure led by Robin and nobody cares cept 4-5 of us on this board. Weird. (And I gave Robin a B. I don't want him fired). So Ozzie couldn't get s*** done with pretty much the same team last year and Robin actually gets absolutely no credit (hell, negative credit according to you) for motivating and getting these players to play better and back to their career norms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 03:13 PM) So Ozzie couldn't get s*** done with pretty much the same team last year and Robin actually gets absolutely no credit (hell, negative credit according to you) for motivating and getting these players to play better and back to their career norms? Actually less of a team. No Santos, no Quentin, and no Buehrle, not to mention pretty much no John Danks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 01:58 PM) I say the White Sox won in 2005 in spite of Ozzie, not because of him. Prove me wrong. I really can't believe you posted that. Are you serious? QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 01:59 PM) This really wasn't a playoff team this year. It was a team that could have gotten to the playoffs, but pretty much the entire universe had the Tigers pegged as the playoff team out of the AL Central. Even with under performing what they should have done by 8-10 games, they will won the division. The people doing the predicting figured Rios, Dunn, Peavy and AJP would suck. They all had excellent years, pretty much erasing the predictions. QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 04:23 PM) I'm going to keep reposting this. When I get time I'll get the records of every season. Geez I don't have a memory like some of you guys. I can't remember seasons til I look it all up. Didn't we win over .500 almost every year Oz was here? QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 05:08 PM) How about the absolutely brutal decision in Game 3 of the World Series by Ozzie to bring in the injured, rusty Dustin Hermanson to face Jason Lane instead of Jenks? Lane doubled to tie up the score in the 8th and sent the game to extras. I can't believe this post. You are bringing up something like this in a postseason we won all but one fricking game?? Do you understand how many moves Ozzie made that were excellent?? QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 08:13 PM) So Ozzie couldn't get s*** done with pretty much the same team last year and Robin actually gets absolutely no credit (hell, negative credit according to you) for motivating and getting these players to play better and back to their career norms? I gave Robin a frickin B. I can't imagine anybody giving him an A after that epic collapse. An embarrassing collapse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 06:09 PM) When I get time I'll get the records of every season. Geez I don't have a memory like some of you guys. I can't remember seasons til I look it all up. Didn't we win over .500 almost every year Oz was here? I don't care about over .500 by two or three games. I care about the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 06:32 PM) I don't care about over .500 by two or three games. I care about the playoffs. Then Ozzie was one of the greatest mangers in team history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 06:09 PM) I really can't believe you posted that. Are you serious? The people doing the predicting figured Rios, Dunn, Peavy and AJP would suck. They all had excellent years, pretty much erasing the predictions. When I get time I'll get the records of every season. Geez I don't have a memory like some of you guys. I can't remember seasons til I look it all up. Didn't we win over .500 almost every year Oz was here? I can't believe this post. You are bringing up something like this in a postseason we won all but one fricking game?? Do you understand how many moves Ozzie made that were excellent?? I gave Robin a frickin B. I can't imagine anybody giving him an A after that epic collapse. An embarrassing collapse. What about that collapse from Ozzie last year with pretty much the same team? What about that collapse in 2010? 2006? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 06:09 PM) I really can't believe you posted that. Are you serious? I am arguing 2005 is the outlier in Ozzie's record. Why wouldn't I believe that? What else has he done? Nothing. His massive failures way outnumber his massive successes. Ventura took a team that was clearly less talented than him, and won six more games than Ozzie did, year over year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 9, 2012 -> 02:05 AM) I am arguing 2005 is the outlier in Ozzie's record. Why wouldn't I believe that? What else has he done? Nothing. His massive failures way outnumber his massive successes. Ventura took a team that was clearly less talented than him, and won six more games than Ozzie did, year over year. I personally thought Oz's overall body of work was pretty good with the best season '05 of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 9, 2012 -> 01:52 AM) I personally thought Oz's overall body of work was pretty good with the best season '05 of course. Remove 2005. How is it pretty good? If you isolate where you can compare him to other managers, it looks even worse. 2011 with the Sox he won 79 games. Guys like Buehrle, Quentin, Santos, and Jackson are on that team. Ventura has none of them, replaces them with rookies essentially, plus loses his opening day starter for most of the season, and wins six more games then Guillen did. The 2011 Marlins win 72 games. They go out and add guys like Reyes, Bell, Buehrle, Zambrano, etc, and actually lose 3 more games than they did the previous year. The constant is Guillen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 9, 2012 -> 07:37 AM) Remove 2005. How is it pretty good? If you isolate where you can compare him to other managers, it looks even worse. 2011 with the Sox he won 79 games. Guys like Buehrle, Quentin, Santos, and Jackson are on that team. Ventura has none of them, replaces them with rookies essentially, plus loses his opening day starter for most of the season, and wins six more games then Guillen did. The 2011 Marlins win 72 games. They go out and add guys like Reyes, Bell, Buehrle, Zambrano, etc, and actually lose 3 more games than they did the previous year. The constant is Guillen. but 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 9, 2012 -> 07:52 AM) but 2005 I want Greg to prove me that 2005 was because of Ozzie, and not in spite of Ozzie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 06:09 PM) I gave Robin a frickin B. I can't imagine anybody giving him an A after that epic collapse. An embarrassing collapse. I have never seen a team work as hard as that team did, and they simply didn't have the talent to compete for 162 games with the Tigers. Had that been Ozzie managing, I truly, firmly, and honestly believe they would have been more than 15 games worse and finished in 4th place as the 2nd worst team in the AL. That team was prepared everyday and they were the best defensive team I have seen since 2005. That team had a lot less talent than that 2011 team, but they almost won a division crown. I don't know what Williams is going to do this offseason, but I imagine I am going to be predicting the White Sox as division winners next year, while I will predict Ozzie to finish in last place or be unemployed (or both). And I bet I will be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'm glad some of you guys continue to argue with GregBot. It's amusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 9, 2012 -> 12:32 PM) I'm glad some of you guys continue to argue with GregBot. It's amusing. You don't give my manager a B and get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 9, 2012 -> 06:32 PM) I'm glad some of you guys continue to argue with GregBot. It's amusing. I am not a bot. I just refuse to bury those responsible for the best month of my sports life. It was heaven. Man, you give a guy a B and people get upset. Sound like parents who can't handle little Johnny or Jane getting a B instead of an A when a B is a good grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 9, 2012 -> 01:32 PM) I am not a bot. I just refuse to bury those responsible for the best month of my sports life. It was heaven. Man, you give a guy a B and people get upset. Sound like parents who can't handle little Johnny or Jane getting a B instead of an A when a B is a good grade. And you can't handle people giving Ozzie a bad grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 9, 2012 -> 01:36 PM) And you can't handle people giving Ozzie a bad grade. He get's a F- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 9, 2012 -> 01:32 PM) I am not a bot. I just refuse to bury those responsible for the best month of my sports life. It was heaven. Man, you give a guy a B and people get upset. Sound like parents who can't handle little Johnny or Jane getting a B instead of an A when a B is a good grade. When they are a freshman in college getting a 95% in a senior level class and the instructor gives Johnny a B because he got a C on his final, you bet your ass I'm going to be defend little Johnny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 9, 2012 -> 02:04 PM) When they are a freshman in college getting a 95% in a senior level class and the instructor gives Johnny a B because he got a C on his final, you bet your ass I'm going to be defend little Johnny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Ventura sucked because a team picked to lose 90 games collapsed down the stretch. The players failed Ozzie when the team collapsed down the stretch every year. Got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 01:47 AM) Greg, give me one season Ozzie did well in other than '05. '05 was magical, but then by this logic we should throw a gigantic contract at Andruw Jones because he used to be an elite player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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