The Miami Marlins thread

[RockRaines]

Only Greg would look at a parody of a parody from a reality TV show as someone's legit opinion on something. You are truly a wonder on this board. My only hope is that in real life you are the same.

[greg775]

Only Greg would look at a parody of a parody from a reality TV show as someone's legit opinion on something. You are truly a wonder on this board. My only hope is that in real life you are the same.

 

I'm too dumb to understand that post, Rock. I thought that article was serious. The guy wrote that some players thought Ozzie was all voodoo-ish with his different religion.

[nitetrain8601]

Actually, that seems to be what may happen. The Marlins think Ozzie runs an unprofessional clubhouse talking about his money, having his adult sons roam free and always swearing. How did they not know this when they hired him? Ozzie did say he would quit if they did anything to his staff and Joey's status may test whether Ozzie really is a man of his word.

 

 

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sports/b...some-wit/nSTg4/

 

I was wondering if this was posted, and Greg really never answered to any of this though many people on this board have stated, this is exactly what we as Sox fans were frustrated with amongst the constant losing. All but the religious part of the deal. Here's some excerpts and I would like to hear gregs excuses for this man:

 

Owner Jeffrey Loria is getting pressure from his top baseball executives to fire Guillen because they believe he has brought an unprofessional culture to the Marlins, according to two people who have spoken with the front office.

 

Loria was not happy when Guillen on Saturday implied that he cared more about going on vacation than whether he would be retained as manager: “The only thing I worry about, make sure that American Airlines plane is ready for Madrid on Thursday.’’

 

1) Checking out before the season is officially over and admitting to only caring about himself only on a personal level. "Where's my boat? I can't wait to go to Madrid after we lose these last few games!"

 

One possible scenario has the Marlins firing bench coach Joey Cora, Guillen’s long-time confidant. Several players have complained about working with Cora, a team source said.

 

Guillen told the front office in spring training, the source said, that he would quit if the team ever tried to fire any of his coaches over his objections. Guillen is owed $7.5 million over the next three years of his contract, but he would not be paid if he quit.

 

2)For the darling that everyone thought Joey Cora was, apparently he's not the funnest of guys to work with. I have heard a few Sox players not having the greatest of time with him on personal training sessions as well. Either way, greg, do you think Ozzie walks away if Joey is fired? If not, what does that say about the loyalty of this man?

 

Several members of the Marlins have complained to top team officials that Guillen is not the right man to manage the club because he does not do it with “integrity and professionalism,’’ a source said.

 

Among their complaints: the constant clubhouse presence of Guillen’s three adult sons; Guillen’s frequent references to not being worried about anything because “I got my money;” and his constant cursing.

 

3)Sounds like what we have all said for the longest time now. This guy isn't professional, hasn't been professional, and doesn't help keep the pressure off the team. It moreso just keeps the spotlight on him, just like Ozzie loves to do. We were all sick of his kids, especially the one who seemingly doesn't believe in working or doing anything other than collecting allowance from his dad and spewing dumb things on twitter. Last, but not least, we all know how much Ozzie cares about money, moreso than he cares about the team or the job he's doing. Is that something we should want in a manager greg?

[Quin]

But that article. Ozzie unprofessional? What is this, the world Chess association? This is baseball, baby. Tobacco chewing, cussing, BASEBALL! That article made me laugh. My god.

 

 

There are many things that make up baseball other than tobacco chewing and cussing. Respecting your employer, your players, other teams, and trying to win are all much more highly regarded than chewing tobacco (does anyone do this anymore? I feel like Big League Chew has to be more popular) and cussing in baseball.

 

What are you talking about? Isnt Jeff Loria a self made multi millionaire through his art buying program?

 

He's a mama's boy. Didn't earn it like Ozzie.

 

Moron manager? One with two WS rings? I don't think he's a moron.

Just curious what you think of Robin. I know, Robin gets a free pass because he was a rookie manager even though he's seen about 9 million baseball games as a great player. I like Robin, but if Ozzie engineered this epic collapse, many of you would have mocked him and/or demanded his firing. Please don't deny that if this collapse woulda been run by Ozzie you'd all have wanted him on a platter.

 

You don't get to count being a 3B Coach. Unless you're Jeff Cox, that's impossible to f*** up.

 

And did you forget 2006? That collapse was so much f***ing worse, because the Sox should have been on their way to a dynasty.

[greg775]

I would like to hear gregs excuses for this man:

 

1) Checking out before the season is officially over and admitting to only caring about himself only on a personal level. "Where's my boat? I can't wait to go to Madrid after we lose these last few games!"

 

2)For the darling that everyone thought Joey Cora was, apparently he's not the funnest of guys to work with. I have heard a few Sox players not having the greatest of time with him on personal training sessions as well. Either way, greg, do you think Ozzie walks away if Joey is fired? If not, what does that say about the loyalty of this man?

 

3)Sounds like what we have all said for the longest time now. This guy isn't professional, hasn't been professional, and doesn't help keep the pressure off the team. It moreso just keeps the spotlight on him, just like Ozzie loves to do. We were all sick of his kids, especially the one who seemingly doesn't believe in working or doing anything other than collecting allowance from his dad and spewing dumb things on twitter. Last, but not least, we all know how much Ozzie cares about money, moreso than he cares about the team or the job he's doing. Is that something we should want in a manager greg?

 

1.) My answer: Loria is crazy. I guess he wanted Ozzie to self mutiliate himself with words, blaming himself over and over for the season instead of being honest that he was headed to Spain. This backs my point that Loria was flat out enraged when Ozzie called out his firing of many other managers. I'm sure at this point Ozzie would love to get paid for three years of no work if Loria fires him. IMO Loria is torn right now. He doesn't want to pay Ozzie, but he sure wants him out of sight. Ozzie had the audacity to call him out like Girardi did. Bye bye.

 

2. No, Ozzie won't give up the money and quit if Cora gets the axe and Ozzie is invited to stay. Most people will not take the financial bullet for a buddy. They'll do it for a family member, but not a pal. I would think Ozzie might blast Loria again though if Cora is the fall guy. The Marlins seem to be interested in finding scapegoats for their record.

 

3. Ozzie is infatuated with the money, but so are most all baseball players. They live in a dream world. Ozzie's ego and love of the media is a problem for any owner or GM who also has a huge huge ego. He'd be better off in a place like KC with dull David Glass. He was fine in Chicago with Jerry, but the conflict was with equally ego-driven Kenny.

I will say Ozzie probably needs to work on his English this offseason and be lead analyst for Fox or ESPN for a year or two. He's still a good manager and funny as s*** in interviews, but guys like Loria can't stand forking over a paycheck to a guy like Ozzie who they deem ungrateful if that is the right word. Too bad, Loria, you hired him. Now they are pointing out all these things they don't like about Ozzie. These are the same things that make him lovable when he is winning. Didn't Loria count all the 'f***s' Ozzie blurted out in that first speech to the team in spring training? Loria was laughing like everybody else. Now the Marlins' record sucks and it is 'unprofessional?' Give me a break.

Edited October 6, 2012 by greg775

[greg775]

 

There are many things that make up baseball other than tobacco chewing and cussing. Respecting your employer, your players, other teams, and trying to win are all much more highly regarded than chewing tobacco (does anyone do this anymore? I feel like Big League Chew has to be more popular) and cussing in baseball.

 

 

 

He's a mama's boy. Didn't earn it like Ozzie.

 

 

 

You don't get to count being a 3B Coach. Unless you're Jeff Cox, that's impossible to f*** up.

 

And did you forget 2006? That collapse was so much f***ing worse, because the Sox should have been on their way to a dynasty.

 

This year proved once again how difficult it is going to be for the White Sox to win another WS in our lifetimes. Robin led a massive choke job and was simply horrible down the stretch. Cooper's pitching staff was helpless late as well. I didn't see Coop figuring out any ways to get the starters to go more than five innings or the relievers not be total horses***. And Manto's offense was ridiculously bad. As bad as any of Walker's lousy stretches. A few solo home runs as the Sox lost game after game. If Ozzie had engineered this epic collapse ... look out. There would have been so much blame laid on him and Walker. Sox had a ton of veteran players who choked. And Robin was our leader much like Oz was.

 

The collapse would have been a lot more fun. Can you imagine the things Ozzie would have said about the Royals as Chen and Guthrie beat us game after game? And during that 1-9 death march at the end? At least it would have been exciting, not this funeral-like event of the last 3 weeks.

 

Whether colorful Ozzie or dull Robin, it is all the same. It all boils down to 'Just win, baby.' And my point is Ozzie is the only manager in modern Sox history to win when it really counted: the season AND postseason both. World Series!!!! We won one and only one and are not gonna win another anytime soon. Yes I would be in favor of bringing back Oz in some capacity as soon as possible.

 

 

p.s. Look at 'professional' Ron Washington. Three straight postseasons. No parades. It ain't easy to win it all. it takes a special team and leader. Ozzie was the man in charge of our only title.

Edited October 6, 2012 by greg775

[Quin]

This year proved once again how difficult it is going to be for the White Sox to win another WS in our lifetimes. Robin led a massive choke job and was simply horrible down the stretch. Cooper's pitching staff was helpless late as well. I didn't see Coop figuring out any ways to get the starters to go more than five innings or the relievers not be total horses***. And Manto's offense was ridiculously bad. As bad as any of Walker's lousy stretches. A few solo home runs as the Sox lost game after game. If Ozzie had engineered this epic collapse ... look out. There would have been so much blame laid on him and Walker. Sox had a ton of veteran players who choked. And Robin was our leader much like Oz was.

 

The collapse would have been a lot more fun. Can you imagine the things Ozzie would have said about the Royals as Chen and Guthrie beat us game after game? And during that 1-9 death march at the end? At least it would have been exciting, not this funeral-like event of the last 3 weeks.

 

Whether colorful Ozzie or dull Robin, it is all the same. It all boils down to 'Just win, baby.' And my point is Ozzie is the only manager in modern Sox history to win when it really counted: the season AND postseason both. World Series!!!! We won one and only one and are not gonna win another anytime soon. Yes I would be in favor of bringing back Oz in some capacity as soon as possible.

 

 

p.s. Look at 'professional' Ron Washington. Three straight postseasons. No parades. It ain't easy to win it all. it takes a special team and leader. Ozzie was the man in charge of our only title.

 

...Ozzie talking s*** would have been infuriating. It would have been a "put your money where your mouth is."

 

Ozzie did that many seasons ago, he's been basically s*** outside of that season.

 

And Ron Washington is a dick.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Lol greg your love for ozzie is both admirable and hilarious

 

Hearing you agree to someone saying coaching is overrated only adds to the hilarity

 

I understand 05 was a huge year, but he simply does not get a life time pass for that. You eliminate that year and he is 1 game over .500 as a manager of a lot of quality teams.

 

Pitching won the 05 title, not Ozzie.

[greg775]

Lol greg your love for ozzie is both admirable and hilarious

 

Hearing you agree to someone saying coaching is overrated only adds to the hilarity

 

I understand 05 was a huge year, but he simply does not get a life time pass for that. You eliminate that year and he is 1 game over .500 as a manager of a lot of quality teams.

 

Pitching won the 05 title, not Ozzie.

 

While I agree managers get too much credit and too much blame, you must realize Ozzie did something in the 05 postseason that was kind of groundbreaking. He had the balls to leave in his starting pitchers in the games; had that not worked, people would have wanted his butt run out of town. There was no mixing or matching of bulls*** lefty/righty stuff. He left our starters in the games.

[2nd_city_saint787]

While I agree managers get too much credit and too much blame, you must realize Ozzie did something in the 05 postseason that was kind of groundbreaking. He had the balls to leave in his starting pitchers in the games; had that not worked, people would have wanted his butt run out of town. There was no mixing or matching of bulls*** lefty/righty stuff. He left our starters in the games.

 

lol oh man greg you're great.

 

When you throw 5 horses out there who are all cruising why would he take them out? That's not ground breaking, it's common sense. 112, 116, and 118 aren't some outlandish pitch counts where you can say, "man Ozzie changed the game leaving those guys out there that long"

 

The SPs made Ozzies job a lot easier.

 

[nitetrain8601]

While I agree managers get too much credit and too much blame, you must realize Ozzie did something in the 05 postseason that was kind of groundbreaking. He had the balls to leave in his starting pitchers in the games; had that not worked, people would have wanted his butt run out of town. There was no mixing or matching of bulls*** lefty/righty stuff. He left our starters in the games.

 

This is one of your weaker arguments greg. He left the starters in? Um, there was only one game in which our starters struggled. They dominated the rest of that postseason. Pinch hitting Geoff Blum is a better argument, and even then, that's pretty weak.

[greg775]

This is one of your weaker arguments greg. He left the starters in? Um, there was only one game in which our starters struggled. They dominated the rest of that postseason. Pinch hitting Geoff Blum is a better argument, and even then, that's pretty weak.

 

Come on, a lot of managers would have yanked the starters for some lefty/right late-game crap and definitely would have went with closers.

I wish you guys would either give Ozzie a ton of credit or blast Robin as much as you are blasting Ozzie. Robin was in charge of a late-season collapse that frankly was an embarrassment. The team went with a whimper. So either praise Ozzie for completing the deal in 05 or blast Robin as you would have blasted Ozzie had he been this year's skipper in charge of that choke-job of the last several weeks.

 

I'm not about to turn on the guy who actually engineered a season that ended in a parade.

Edited October 8, 2012 by greg775

[2nd_city_saint787]

Come on, a lot of managers would have yanked the starters for some lefty/right late-game crap and definitely would have went with closers.

I wish you guys would either give Ozzie a ton of credit or blast Robin as much as you are blasting Ozzie. Robin was in charge of a late-season collapse that frankly was an embarrassment. The team went with a whimper. So either praise Ozzie for completing the deal in 05 or blast Robin as you would have blasted Ozzie had he been this year's skipper in charge of that choke-job of the last several weeks.

 

I'm not about to turn on the guy who actually engineered a season that ended in a parade.

 

Not when your SPs are cruising and their pitch counts were under control like they were. It'd take a pretty stupid manager to pull those guys.

 

Once again was it Robins fault Dunn and PK combined for a .220 average for the final month of the season?

 

I have no problem saying "congrats to Ozzie for winning in 05" but I won't praise him for his career here. With that pitching staff in 05 I dont care who the manager was you're gonna win with the type of seasons those guys had.

[greg775]

Not when your SPs are cruising and their pitch counts were under control like they were. It'd take a pretty stupid manager to pull those guys.

 

Once again was it Robins fault Dunn and PK combined for a .220 average for the final month of the season?

 

I have no problem saying "congrats to Ozzie for winning in 05" but I won't praise him for his career here. With that pitching staff in 05 I dont care who the manager was you're gonna win with the type of seasons those guys had.

 

It's chicken and egg.

Did the pitchers perform well in part because of their supportive manager? Just as some people give Robin an A for getting an "underachieving team to earn their paychecks" why doesn't Ozzie get credit for taking the team even further in '05?? Was the team in 05 that much better on paper???

Edited October 8, 2012 by greg775

[Quin]

Greg, give me one season Ozzie did well in other than '05.

 

'05 was magical, but then by this logic we should throw a gigantic contract at Andruw Jones because he used to be an elite player.

[caulfield12]

Greg, give me one season Ozzie did well in other than '05.

 

'05 was magical, but then by this logic we should throw a gigantic contract at Andruw Jones because he used to be an elite player.

 

 

Coin toss by Rick Hahn's son in 2008.

[greg775]

This was a playoff team this year (once Dunn and Rios and AJP showed they came to play right out of the gate) and didn't even make the playoffs. Yet Robin is beloved just cause he never opened his mouth and the Sox were out of the news all year. Makes no sense to me. This year was a colossal failure led by Robin and nobody cares cept 4-5 of us on this board. Weird.

(And I gave Robin a B. I don't want him fired).

[Quin]

This was a playoff team this year (once Dunn and Rios and AJP showed they came to play right out of the gate) and didn't even make the playoffs. Yet Robin is beloved just cause he never opened his mouth and the Sox were out of the news all year. Makes no sense to me. This year was a colossal failure led by Robin and nobody cares cept 4-5 of us on this board. Weird.

(And I gave Robin a B. I don't want him fired).

 

Greg, give me one season Ozzie did well in other than '05.

 

'05 was magical, but then by this logic we should throw a gigantic contract at Andruw Jones because he used to be an elite player.

 

[caulfield12]

This was a playoff team this year (once Dunn and Rios and AJP showed they came to play right out of the gate) and didn't even make the playoffs. Yet Robin is beloved just cause he never opened his mouth and the Sox were out of the news all year. Makes no sense to me. This year was a colossal failure led by Robin and nobody cares cept 4-5 of us on this board. Weird.

(And I gave Robin a B. I don't want him fired).

 

 

It wasn't a colossal failure.

 

The White Sox being in the news doesn't matter except to 4-5 posters, too.

 

Nobody is absolving Ventura and the Sox of blame. It's a different situation because of 1) Ventura's inexperience, and 2) the expectations of everyone coming into the season.

 

What was the statistic, not one national prognosticator out of 45 picked any team for the AL Central title but the Tigers. And that was reflected in the attendance and expectations all season long. KW shot himself in the foot by setting expectations lower and using the "rebuild" phrase at least once.

 

The collapse of the Rangers down the stretch was much more catastrophic...or even the Braves' defense falling apart and costing them the season in a single knockout game. Would you feel any better if you were an Atlanta fan and your team had 90+ wins and then ended the year throwing bottles and garbage all over the field, going into this offseason?

[southsider2k5]

I say the White Sox won in 2005 in spite of Ozzie, not because of him. Prove me wrong.

[southsider2k5]

This was a playoff team this year (once Dunn and Rios and AJP showed they came to play right out of the gate) and didn't even make the playoffs. Yet Robin is beloved just cause he never opened his mouth and the Sox were out of the news all year. Makes no sense to me. This year was a colossal failure led by Robin and nobody cares cept 4-5 of us on this board. Weird.

(And I gave Robin a B. I don't want him fired).

 

This really wasn't a playoff team this year. It was a team that could have gotten to the playoffs, but pretty much the entire universe had the Tigers pegged as the playoff team out of the AL Central. Even with under performing what they should have done by 8-10 games, they will won the division.

[Quin]

Greg, give me one season Ozzie did well in other than '05.

 

I'm going to keep reposting this.

[bigruss]

I'm going to keep reposting this.

He can't answer that without mentioning 2005, so he'll keep ignoring you and responding to other posts with answers about 2005.

[LittleHurt05]

While I agree managers get too much credit and too much blame, you must realize Ozzie did something in the 05 postseason that was kind of groundbreaking. He had the balls to leave in his starting pitchers in the games; had that not worked, people would have wanted his butt run out of town. There was no mixing or matching of bulls*** lefty/righty stuff. He left our starters in the games.

 

Groundbreaking? Let's take a look at each game for a second.

 

Game 2: Buehrle threw 91 pitches thru 8 innings, 99 thru 9. The Sox offense was dormant and with the score tied, there was potential for extra innings so you needed to save the bullpen.

 

Game 3: Garland had thrown 105 pitches through 8 and retired the last seven in a row heading into the 9th. Toss-up whether most mangers would have used their closer.

 

Game 4: Sox had a 6-run lead and Freddy had only thrown 104 pitches thru 8 innings. Easy decision to leave him in.

 

Game 5: Contreras was only at 103 pitches and had retired 12 in a row heading into the 9th. Made sense to leave him in.

 

 

None of these pitchers faced major jams in the late innings that Ozzie let them fight through on their own. They were cruising so he let them be. Good decisions by Ozzie, but hardly "groundbreaking".

[fathom]

How about the absolutely brutal decision in Game 3 of the World Series by Ozzie to bring in the injured, rusty Dustin Hermanson to face Jason Lane instead of Jenks? Lane doubled to tie up the score in the 8th and sent the game to extras.