flippedoutpunk Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 03:22 PM) Muslim Extremist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (flippedoutpunk @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 02:07 PM) The fan base isn't pissed. A certain population is. Just like how Chicago is supposedly the second largest population of polish people in the world, if a manager in chicago said something detrimental towards the polish population id be willing to bet that wrigley would still sell tickets and the white sox would do the same. Also.. great win by the marlins today! Infante :headbang Like what, that he really admired the efficiency of their death factories in Auschwitz and massive liquidation of the Jewish ghettos? It's one thing to make a joke about a "people" in terms of their ethnicity or religion (although Ozzie already had this experience with Mariotti and the gay community), it's quite another to expression admiration for someone responsible for the systematic repression and many multiple thousands of deaths that resulted from his policy. Maybe the scale isn't the same as Hitler or Stalin or Mao, but the effect is still nevertheless the same. Also, the Marlins' new ballpark is located in the heart of that aforementioned offended group. The Cubs and White Sox, not so much. The entire theme and motif of marketing campaign this year is connected to it. And then you have the fact that Ozzie's not from Cuba and doesn't understand a thing about their internal politics. He already blundered with Chavez comments in the past, and tried to hide from them by acting like he doesn't know about or care about politics. This isn't even about politics, it's about sensitivity and compassion and empathy that all human beings should have for others, especially when he's a part of that minority sub-group. Maybe he can hide behind the fact that he's not well-educated and generally is ignorant or tone-deaf on such matters. But when it starts to effect Loria's bottom line, you can bet that the lawyers are already going through that managerial contract with a fine tooth comb looking for "cause/out clauses" to get themselves off the hook. If these groups can demonstrate enough power on the social networks and with the media to make the Marlins feel there's a threat to their business model, it will be another version of the Limbaugh versus the world battle. At some point, this thread is going to run into the "SLAM" category, it's almost unavoidable. You used the Polish example. Since I'm in Asia, I'll use another. Let's say a Japanese or Korean person was managing a team in their professional leagues and he expressed the same sentiments for Pol Pot and the Khymer Rouge regime in Cambodia. No matter how "cute" or innocent they sounded, would that manager have a leg to stand on? Joe Cowley has to be VERY VERY careful with his next columns on Guillen (better to take the free speech approach, that's more appealing to more Americans, the one that says Ozzie has a right to sacrifice animals for religious reasons, as per a 1993 SCOTUS decision) or he'll end up in the same boat with Ozzie paddling out to Cuba to see what it's really like in the society he expressed admiration for. Edited April 9, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippedoutpunk Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 03:24 PM) At some point, this thread is going to run into the "SLAM" category, it's almost unavoidable. im okay with talking strictly marlins baseball, giancarlo's good looks and topless bartenders at Marlins park if you are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Finally got around to reading what he said. Just a pure moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 QUOTE (flippedoutpunk @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 02:28 PM) im okay with talking strictly marlins baseball, giancarlo's good looks and topless bartenders at Marlins park if you are And that's what Marlins management wants, too, MOSTLY. Unfortunately, the headlines tomorrow in the newspaper will be 90% Guillen and 10% Marlins/Infante. That's the Ozzie Show. They knew what they were getting into with him, live by the sword, die by the sword, as they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippedoutpunk Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Nice little youtube video on the Clevelander section of Marlins Park. Looks a lot better in action obviously. (Link NSFW) ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (flippedoutpunk @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 02:35 PM) Nice little youtube video on the Clevelander section of Marlins Park. Looks a lot better in action obviously. (Link NSFW) ! Haha. Not even Greg can defend him, anymore. That's how bad things have gotten. The only way is to change the subject/topic to half-naked babes. We'll see how things go tomorrow. They have to be scared to death that Ozzie will make things worse rather than better, and yet they know they can't control or script him. It will be interesting to see if they let him answer questions or force him to go with a teleprompter (Ozzie looks more contrite and serious with glasses on the edge of his nose) and prepared remarks by the team's media relations department, or even Loria himself will be involved in a kind of mini-rebuke. Edited April 9, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 QUOTE (flippedoutpunk @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 03:35 PM) Nice little youtube video on the Clevelander section of Marlins Park. Looks a lot better in action obviously. (Link NSFW) ! Ha, makes it look even worse IMO. Baseball related-nope Family friendly-nope. Kind of a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippedoutpunk Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Its crazy that the posters on soxtalk are making a bigger deal about this than posters on marlinsbaseball.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippedoutpunk Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 03:40 PM) Ha, makes it look even worse IMO. Baseball related-nope Family friendly-nope. Kind of a joke. .... its miami... I'm pretty sure miami is the worst place to live if you've got the ol ball and chain attached to your ankle. also that section is promoted as a bar and you have to be 21 and over to purchase tickets. i don't see the problem with that. its the adult version of your guys' pontiac fundamentals, or whatever it is now. Edited April 9, 2012 by flippedoutpunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 QUOTE (flippedoutpunk @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 02:42 PM) Its crazy that the posters on soxtalk are making a bigger deal about this than posters on marlinsbaseball.com. Because we lived with it for 8 years. He's still a novelty in Miami, the stadium's going to be a huge attraction and create positive buzz for at least this season and they added Reyes/Buehrle/Bell to go along with Stanton/Johnson/Ramirez so of course they're more interested in their actual team. The other part of that is that Robin Ventura is plain vanilla, so it's nice there will undoubtedly be not a single story this year about off-field distractions created by the manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 QUOTE (flippedoutpunk @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 03:43 PM) .... its miami... I'm pretty sure miami is the worst place to live if you've got the ol ball and chain attached to your ankle. also that section is promoted as a bar and you have to be 21 and over to purchase tickets. i don't see the problem with that. its the adult version of your guys' pontiac fundamentals, or whatever it is now. Fundamentals is geared at introducing children into the baseball culture and in particular the White Sox. Its family friendly and is baseball related. That thing is well, not related to baseball at all. Its like if the Cubs attached Barley Corn to the stadium and added a pool. Just strange that you want to take the focus off of baseball. If I was to list my 10 favorite stadiums in the MLB, I am not sure any of those have gimmicks totally unrelated to the baseball experience. To each his own, but I think it clearly plays into the stereotype that Miami "fans" dont care much about whats on the field or court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 12:02 PM) LOL. There are still places where you pay for a differing opinion with your life. That was my point. Why bother with the hassle of sailing a refrigerator door across 90 miles of open water to escape an oppressive regime if the first reaction you have to something Ozzie said out of his ass is to call for his head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippedoutpunk Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 03:49 PM) but I think it clearly plays into the stereotype that Miami "fans" dont care much about whats on the field or court. oh its not a stereotype. anyone thats ever been to a miami heat game will tell you that. the whole town is all about College Football. people in miami go to things for the spectacle of it, going to a baseball game, with baseball being a slow-paced sport is probably never going to catch on in a huge way with sellouts every night. So in order to help sell tickets you have to add these gimmicks for the not-so baseball fans and also the mass amounts of european tourists that are constantly patrolling south beach. A plain jane steel ballpark with a couple of palm trees in centerfield would never cut it. Edited April 9, 2012 by flippedoutpunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 And there's a big difference having a swimming pool/whirlpool, fountains (like KC), that Disney-esque rock design in LF at Anaheim, smaller diamonds for kids on the concourse grounds or behind the stadiums...and making the experience 90% about non-baseball related entertainment. Yeah, The Clevelander is another revenue stream for the team and owner, but it has very little to do with baseball. In the end, all the gimmicks and aquariums and art deco "cartoonish" scoreboards aren't enough to cover up for the product on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 03:56 PM) And there's a big difference having a swimming pool/whirlpool, fountains (like KC), that Disney-esque rock design in LF at Anaheim, smaller diamonds for kids on the concourse grounds or behind the stadiums...and making the experience 90% about non-baseball related entertainment. Yeah, The Clevelander is another revenue stream for the team and owner, but it has very little to do with baseball. In the end, all the gimmicks and aquariums and art deco "cartoonish" scoreboards aren't enough to cover up for the product on the field. To be fair, the whole "Come see our baseball team play baseball" approach has been a complete and utter failure in Miami. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (flippedoutpunk @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 03:54 PM) oh its not a stereotype. anyone thats ever been to a miami heat game will tell you that. the whole town is all about College Football. people in miami go to things for the spectacle of it, going to a baseball game, with baseball being a slow-paced sport is probably never going to catch on in a huge way with sellouts every night. So in order to help sell tickets you have to add these gimmicks for the not-so baseball fans and also the mass amounts of european tourists that are constantly patrolling south beach. A plain jane steel ballpark with a couple of palm trees in centerfield would never cut it. They're really hoping to get Europeans (mostly soccer fans) to come to a baseball game at night when they're visiting Miami? Tough sell. Maybe the new stadium's enough, but it just depends on the affordability of the product. Turn it the other way around. If you're travelling in England, France, Spain, Italy or Germany with your family and you're American, are you likely to take them to a soccer game even if they have the most amazing facility ever built? Maybe, maybe not. But most kids everywhere in the world get bored watching soccer, just like they do with baseball. I guess it depends on the parents and how much they're willing to spend on curiosity or experiencing "American sports culture." To be fair, the whole "Come see our baseball team play baseball" approach has been a complete and utter failure in Miami. Yeah, probably better to err on the side of going too far over the top than not enough. We learned that with our own stadium, and have been correcting a Plain Jane, cookie cutter new stadium for 20+ years as result. Edited April 9, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippedoutpunk Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 03:56 PM) And there's a big difference having a swimming pool/whirlpool, fountains (like KC), that Disney-esque rock design in LF at Anaheim, smaller diamonds for kids on the concourse grounds or behind the stadiums...and making the experience 90% about non-baseball related entertainment. i would say that 90% of the park is baseball related.. you make it sound like the clevelander bar is an entire floor of the stadium. its just a section for people to enjoy themselves and catch glimpses of a baseball game or some breasts if they so please. its not like people in the upper deck get lap dances by brazilian dancers while a dolphin caresses your genitalia. Any other seat in the park outside of the bar is just as much a baseball experience as any other stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 QUOTE (flippedoutpunk @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 04:03 PM) i would say that 90% of the park is baseball related.. you make it sound like the clevelander bar is an entire floor of the stadium. its just a section for people to enjoy themselves and catch glimpses of a baseball game or some breasts if they so please. its not like people in the upper deck get lap dances by brazilian dancers while a dolphin caresses your genitalia. Any other seat in the park outside of the bar is just as much a baseball experience as any other stadium. You made a good point above. WE have this outside of our stadium, just not to the degree. I am going to have to run down there to check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 QUOTE (flippedoutpunk @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 03:42 PM) Its crazy that the posters on soxtalk are making a bigger deal about this than posters on marlinsbaseball.com. The whole freedom of speech thing means that when someone exercises their right to say something stupid, everyone has the right to tell that person that they said something stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 QUOTE (flippedoutpunk @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 03:42 PM) Its crazy that the posters on soxtalk are making a bigger deal about this than posters on marlinsbaseball.com. Read Ken Rosenthal, read Jon Heyman, read Jayson Stark...all of them are talking about Ozzie's comments as perhaps the dumbest comments ever to come out of a manager's mouth. As for the "freedom of speech" argument a lot of people say gives Ozzie the right to say what he wants. It does. He won't go to jail for saying such stupid things, but anyone saying stupid things at their place of employment or anywhere is subject to the consequences.For instance,racists don't call black co workers names they may call them at home while at work if they want to continue to be employed. Ozzie is going back to Miami so the Marlins can prep him on how to apologize. They won't fire him this time, but anything close to this again, especially if this doesn't blow over very quickly, Ozzie will be out of a job and will have a near impossible time finding another one in MLB. It will be a very predictable ending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 http://sports.yahoo.com/news/guillen-retur...P2Fb5DKw.0RvLYF Guillen LEAVING the team to go back to Miami to apologize. Public officials calling for him to lose his job. This is amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 another story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7791970/...castro-comments http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heym...diotic-comments Heyman's comments are the strongest. The one thing Guillen got right is this: Castro is an "expletive." Other than that, this is the dumbest paragraph uttered by a major-league manager in the history of paragraphs and managers. How does one say he "loves" Castro? It's unfathomable. Castro has presided over executions, has kept political prisoners, and he's forced tens of thousands to flee their families and homeland. If anyone should know this, it's a baseball figure. If anyone else should know this, it's a Miamian. Guillen is both. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Ozzie-G...comments-040912 I take that back. Rosenthal calling for one month suspension, expects one week. Guillen probably survives this idiocy. But maybe just barely. Edited April 9, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 06:08 PM) http://sports.yahoo.com/news/guillen-retur...P2Fb5DKw.0RvLYF Guillen LEAVING the team to go back to Miami to apologize. Public officials calling for him to lose his job. This is amazing! Wow, this is getting really serious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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