2012 White Sox Catch-All thread

[Quin]

[knightni]

White Sox claim Phil Humber off waivers from the A's.

 

 

Humber could be a waiver steal if they can get him back to his top prospect results.

 

 

If they can get league average innings out of him from the long relief role, it'd be good enough for me.

 

 

He hasn't even been good at AAA in the past few years. I don't see him being anything more than a Charlotte filler.

 

 

Can we wait until he fails for us until we pronounce him crap? I understand people are tentative about him as our fifth starter, but, god, it's not like we've ever turned around a former first round top prospect by getting him into our system.

 

 

If a crazy, suicidal f*** jumps off the top of the Sears Tower (I will never refer to it as the Willis Tower), I don't have to wait until he/she hits the ground to no that fool is dead. s***ty analogy. But same difference. I know you're an optimist. I have no problem with that. It's a natural tendency to think the team that you cheer for and love can do something with a player(s) that nobody else could. But those that are not drinking the kool-aid just because said player happens to be a White Sox shouldn't be looked upon as evil demons that just like to be negative for the sake of being negative. I've said this many times before. If the Cubs were set to insert Humber into their rotation EVERY single poster on this board, and that includes you SS2K5 and JoeCool, would be laughing their asses off. This is undeniable fact. Now if somehow, someway, Humber pulls a horseshoe out his ass and is even serviceable, great. It won't make me feel stupid for not expecting a thing from him this year. He's done nothing in his career, outside of being a high draft pick sever years ago, that warrants any type of faith.

 

 

I've been on with J4L on this one the whole time. There is nothing in the numbers nor scouting reports that has ever impressed me about Humber. I think he is going to be a poor man's DJ Carrasco at best, and DJ Carrasco wasn't exactly for the wealthy (or whatever). Maybe he's figured something out or maybe the coaching staff knows something I don't - well they know quite a few things I don't, so that much is very true - but I'm not counting on anything, and I'm not going to be excited about him.

 

 

WS will only need Humber to start for the 1st 4-5 weeks. If he pitches well, that's a bonus, and he'll become the WS' long reliever.

 

 

I hope you've included me because I think Humber can be a decent 5th starter, and not because you think I'm a Cubs hater of some sorts, because I'm not.

I said it when we signed him, and I still believe it. Humber can be a decent 5th starter while Jake is out. In my opinion, that means an ERA around 5.00 or less. I don't think that's out of reach at all.

 

The important part is to be the first to do it, so that you can say I told you so later on...

 

[caulfield12]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7840488

 

Humber's game, analysis from Sutcliffe and Aaron Boone

 

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7841218/...erfect-surprise

Jim Caple, ESPN commentary

 

 

“I'm not Justin Verlander,” Humber said last year, and by then it was obvious that he had changed some things on the field to give himself a more realistic chance to be successful. “Stop trying to throw high fastballs right by major-league hitters in obvious spots in the count. Your 93-94 isn't good enough. Nail down your command, avoiding baserunners whenever possible. Develop and count on the secondary and tertiary pitches. Hit the corners of the zone, but make sure they're strikes. Trust your fielders and don't think you have to blow every one away.”

from Matt Spiegel story at DailyHerald.com

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2012042...orts/704219738/

Rozner

 

Wow.

When the White Sox wrapped up their season-opening seven-game homestand Thursday, the big story was the wayward kid that ran into the outfield.

Two days later, you've got Adam Dunn slugging like he once did ... and Philip Humber.

He might be the Sox' No. 5 starter, but Humber pitched like an ace in Saturday's 4-0 win over the Mariners at Safeco Field.

Humber pitched a perfect game for the White Sox - the 21st in major-league history.

It was a dominant effort, obviously, and the Mariners never really came close to getting a hit.

Humber sealed the perfecto when pinch-hitter Brendan Ryan offered at a 3-2 pitch and was called out on strikes. The pitch skipped past catcher A.J. Pierzynski, but he recovered the ball and threw Ryan out at first base.

"I knew as long as A.J. didn't trip over himself, he just needed to play catch with Paulie (first baseman Paul Konerko)," the soft-spoken Humber told reporters.

Humber pitched the third perfect game in White Sox history.

Mark Buehrle pitched one against Tampa Bay on July 23, 2009, and Charles Robertson was perfect against Detroit on April 30, 1922.

Scot Gregor/dailyherald.com

 

Scott Miller, cbssportsline.com

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/1874310...all-immortality

Edited April 22, 2012 by caulfield12

[Quin]

I enjoy not being part of Knight's compilation up there.

[knightni]

Humber and Milledge are both garbage to this point; it's what they've proven to be. At least the positions they are fighting for don't matter too much overall. No big deal if these chewed-up scraps make the team. Or Lillibridge for that matter- it's all the same big can a garbage with different levels of optimism poured on top.

 

 

At least Milledge has talent.

 

Lastings just never got it together. Humber's not all that talented. He's like a better version of Lance Broadway. High pick and overrated by the team that drafted him.

 

 

I hope not. Marquez is garbage. Humber was a top prospect, had surgery and now has a new pitch. While I don't think he'll contend for the Cy Young, I think as a fifth starter for a month, he should do OK. If the Sox are .500 in his starts, they are ahead of the game.

 

 

There are a ton of posts in this thread on Humber, should we be patient, should we expect a lot, etc. After watching the game against he cubs isnt it obvious. Hes a former first round pick becuase hes got good stuff and potential, but just watching him pitch hes got very little command and control. He works from behind in the count a whole bunch as a result. He reminds me of Daniel Hudson actually, good stuff, still raw in terms of pitching. Humber, like Hudson doesnt seem to be able to command his fastball and breaking ball in the strikezone, meaning he cant control where it ends up in the zone, and cant control the run on his fastball. His control wasn't all that great either, he was simply pitching 2-0 and 3-1 a lot. And I think if you read a scouting report on his career it would say exactly that, good stuff, command/control lacking. So who knows what will happen, it appears he will have some good games and have some bad games as a White Sox starter, he does not appear to be a long term solution, but could be servicable for a little bit. If I was going to guess he is going to look just like Daniel Hudson did for us last year.

 

[caulfield12]

I enjoy not being part of Knight's compilation up there.

 

 

Enjoyed the comp to DJ Carrasco and J4L's hyperbole the most.

 

Oops, now we have Marquez and Lance Broadway.

 

Kyle McCulloch can't be far behind, or Royce Ring/Aaron Poreda.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2012 by caulfield12

[Quin]

Knights just releasing damnation.

 

Also, this graph reminded me of Stewarts near perfect last year. I love Coop.

[knightni]

Well, I'm done with the digging for now.

 

[greg775]

More evidence that you are not a real Sox fan. We pitch a perfect game and you come in here to praise Ozzie and Greg Walker instead of chiming in on today's game and joining the post game thread.

 

LOL are you crazy?

Chet Lemon, Frank Thomas, Luis Aparicio, Jim Landis, Mike Hershberger, Bill Melton, Eric Soderholm, Julio Cruz, Richie Zisk, Carlton Fisk, Harold Baines, Rock Raines, Jim Essian, Tommy John, Wilbur Wood, Eddie Stanky, Oz Guillen, Gary Peters, JC Martin, One Dog, Carlos Quentin, Carlos Lee, Mark Buehrle, Carlos May, Dick Allen, how many players do you want me to list. Yeah, I'm not a Sox fan.

I looked those names up on Google to troll everybody.

 

SOX FOREVER.

[Quin]

LOL are you crazy?

Chet Lemon, Frank Thomas, Luis Aparicio, Jim Landis, Mike Hershberger, Bill Melton, Eric Soderholm, Julio Cruz, Richie Zisk, Carlton Fisk, Harold Baines, Rock Raines, Jim Essian, Tommy John, Wilbur Wood, Eddie Stanky, Oz Guillen, Gary Peters, JC Martin, One Dog, Carlos Quentin, Carlos Lee, Mark Buehrle, Carlos May, Dick Allen, how many players do you want me to list. Yeah, I'm not a Sox fan.

I looked those names up on Google to troll everybody.

 

SOX FOREVER.

 

You're like my brother: You're a Sox fan but you REALLY f***ing love Ozzie to the point of coming off as more of an Ozzie-fan than a Sox fan.

 

That being said, you're a Sox fan.

[greg775]

You're like my brother: You're a Sox fan but you REALLY f***ing love Ozzie to the point of coming off as more of an Ozzie-fan than a Sox fan.

 

That being said, you're a Sox fan.

 

Thanks and I did comment on Humber in the game thread.

I was happy.

[Lillian]

Robin is doing a nice job, but he is mismanaging de Aza and Lillibridge. He has only given Brent 10 at bats, and 7 of those have been against RHP.

Lillibridge demonstrated his ability to hit LHP last season, and he should be given all of de Aza's playing time against lefties.

I love de Aza, but he looks lost when facing lefties.

This situation just screams for a platoon. Let them share CF and leadoff.

I keep saying it, but it's frustrating to watch this situation develop. It's so obvious, that it's a "no-brainer."

[caulfield12]

Robin is doing a nice job, but he is mismanaging de Aza and Lillibridge. He has only given Brent 10 at bats, and 7 of those have been against RHP.

Lillibridge demonstrated his ability to hit LHP last season, and he should be given all of de Aza's playing time against lefties.

I love de Aza, but he looks lost when facing lefties.

This situation just screams for a platoon. Let them share CF and leadoff.

I keep saying it, but it's frustrating to watch this situation develop. It's so obvious, that it's a "no-brainer."

 

Coming into yesterday's game, DeAza was 29th in the AL in OPS.

 

 

[Quin]

Robin is doing a nice job, but he is mismanaging de Aza and Lillibridge. He has only given Brent 10 at bats, and 7 of those have been against RHP.

Lillibridge demonstrated his ability to hit LHP last season, and he should be given all of de Aza's playing time against lefties.

I love de Aza, but he looks lost when facing lefties.

This situation just screams for a platoon. Let them share CF and leadoff.

I keep saying it, but it's frustrating to watch this situation develop. It's so obvious, that it's a "no-brainer."

 

Your infatuation with Lillibridge reminds me of some people's love affair with Jayson Nix in '09.

[Lillian]

If you look at both of their splits, I think you'll agree that de Aza is unquestionably the better player vs. RHP, and Brent is the better player vs. LHP.

That's all I'm saying. They are essentially the same player. They both have good speed, decent outfielders, with a little pop. The combination of the two of them, in a platoon situation, is much better than either one of them, alone.

 

Regarding my "fascination' with Lillibridge; don't you think the guy has earned some playing time, after how he busted his tail last season?

Have you forgotten all of the diving catches, and the 13 homers in limitted playing time? I'd try to find him some at bats vs. LHP, and a platoon with de Aza is the obvious fit.

[Lillian]

Coming into yesterday's game, DeAza was 29th in the AL in OPS.

 

No one needs to taut de Aza to me. I loved him 3 years ago, on this board, when everyone insisted that he was a "AAAA" player, or a 4TH outfielder.

However, he has never been that good vs. LHP, including at AAA, not even during last year's stellar performance the last couple of months of the season.

He's not doing that well vs. LHP again this year: he has only had 14 at bats, but his .143 AVG. with just one extra base hit, is a pretty dramatic contrast to his .310 AVG. vs. RHP.

 

 

[Quin]

If you look at both of their splits, I think you'll agree that de Aza is unquestionably the better player vs. RHP, and Brent is the better player vs. LHP.

That's all I'm saying. They are essentially the same player. They both have good speed, decent outfielders, with a little pop. The combination of the two of them, in a platoon situation, is much better than either one of them, alone.

 

Regarding my "fascination' with Lillibridge; don't you think the guy has earned some playing time, after how he busted his tail last season?

Have you forgotten all of the diving catches, and the 13 homers in limitted playing time? I'd try to find him some at bats vs. LHP, and a platoon with de Aza is the obvious fit.

 

I'd rather Lillibridge just super-sub but you don't platoon one of your starters when he's earned a job.

 

Lilli would make a great super-sub, that's it. He can play the OF, 1B, and the rest of the infield in a pinch. I'd rather he get the AB's then Escobar. But a platoon is ridiculous considering the main thing Ozzie did well last year was use Lilli in the best way possible to hide his weaknesses and maximize his strength.

 

De Aza hit .263 last year against lefties. Lilli hit .228 against righties.

 

Sure, maybe you sit De Aza occasionally against lefties, but a platoon is ridiculous considering how productive De Aza is being as a starter and has done nothing to have that taken from him.

[Lillian]

I'd rather Lillibridge just super-sub but you don't platoon one of your starters when he's earned a job.

 

Lilli would make a great super-sub, that's it. He can play the OF, 1B, and the rest of the infield in a pinch. I'd rather he get the AB's then Escobar. But a platoon is ridiculous considering the main thing Ozzie did well last year was use Lilli in the best way possible to hide his weaknesses and maximize his strength.

 

De Aza hit .263 last year against lefties. Lilli hit .228 against righties.

 

Sure, maybe you sit De Aza occasionally against lefties, but a platoon is ridiculous considering how productive De Aza is being as a starter and has done nothing to have that taken from him.

 

I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree with you. Please look at de Aza's split stats last year and this year. Moreover, I can tell you that it wasn't much different at AAA. I remember the disparity of his Minor League splits, and posted about it on this forum, for a couple of years.

 

They have both earned playing time, but neither one of them has yet demonstrated an ability to hit both left and right handed pitching. However, if you combine the production from a platooning of both of them, you get really impressive numbers. Of course, de Aza would get most of the at bats, but based upon the small sample size, the platoon is far from "ridiculous". I argue that not platooning them is ridiculous.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Lillian

[witesoxfan]

There was nothing to like about Humber at the time. For f***'s sake, he's still the 5th starter after he put up a 3.75 ERA over 160 last year. I'm certainly not the only one who feels that way.

 

He is a good pitcher. You aren't drafted 3rd overall without having a clue. I just didn't think he had anything left. I was obviously wrong then. 've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again. Don't care. Still awesome.

 

 

Now, if you'd like, I'm sure I can find a team to dig up a few other posts. I realize its all in good fun, but, being an administrator and all on the site, maybe you should take the high ground in situations like this and let others do the digging.

Edited April 22, 2012 by witesoxfan

[knightni]

There was nothing to like about Humber at the time. For f***'s sake, he's still the 5th starter after he put up a 3.75 ERA over 160 last year. I'm certainly not the only one who feels that way.

 

He is a good pitcher. You aren't drafted 3rd overall without having a clue. I just didn't think he had anything left. I was obviously wrong then. 've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again. Don't care. Still awesome.

 

 

Now, if you'd like, I'm sure I can find a team to dig up a few other posts. I realize its all in good fun, but, being an administrator and all on the site, maybe you should take the high ground in situations like this and let others do the digging.

What's the difference on who does the digging? I was right and others weren't. Oh well. I'm not allowed to bring back comments because I'm an admin? That makes no sense.

[caulfield12]

There was nothing to like about Humber at the time. For f***'s sake, he's still the 5th starter after he put up a 3.75 ERA over 160 last year. I'm certainly not the only one who feels that way.

 

He is a good pitcher. You aren't drafted 3rd overall without having a clue. I just didn't think he had anything left. I was obviously wrong then. 've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again. Don't care. Still awesome.

 

 

Now, if you'd like, I'm sure I can find a team to dig up a few other posts. I realize its all in good fun, but, being an administrator and all on the site, maybe you should take the high ground in situations like this and let others do the digging.

 

 

It's kind of like, yeah, KW (more specifically, Hahn and Cooper) were very right on a player/pitcher because they saw him a couple of times pitching first-hand for the Royals against us late in 2011 and they took a flyer on him.

 

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes, in this case, we might as well be making fun of the Twins, Royals and A's for all giving up on him...especially Beane and Dayton Moore, who can always use pitching, but Billy Smith (again) looks stupid.

 

The same thing could probably be said if you mentioned the reaction when we picked up Gil Heredia and Esteban Loaiza before the 2003 season.

 

Or Silverio, Gomes and Orlando, etc. Mitch Mustain, the ex Arkansas/USC QB. Did anyone in those threads predict he was going to amount to something?

 

We had at this same debate over and over again about Rios, Dunn and Peavy when they were acquired. I guess it's probably easier for the last five years of KW's tenure to just predict that every single acquisition's going to be a disaster.

 

Lillibridge and DeAza, for example. Did anyone predict 3 weeks ago that Kip Wells was going to return to the White Sox rotation this season? Are they idiots for having done so, or was that thread just filled with cynicism and scoffing?

 

Same thing with Stewart and Molina...for all those betting against KW getting an impact pitcher, is KW going to send out letter congratulating us for being right when neither of them makes it (just an example)...or for posters being upset when Holmberg, Hudson, Gonzalez or Chris Young were traded?

 

I remember fighting with numerous posters and admins for years about Brian Anderson being a bust. Does that mean I should go and dig up those posts? Kind of silly, because we've all been wrong more often than we've been right.

 

If you take a controversial or lightning rod position to spark discussion like J4L often does with his player evaluations, you're always going to be wrong just as wrong as major league teams are often quite wrong drafting in the first round. It's not an exact science, nor will it ever be (see Moneyball). Or maybe there's an even more nuanced situation, like Yoenis Cespedes, where you not only have to consider talent/projectability/video displays against unreal competition, but also our budgetary restraints and those consequences. For right now, every team in the majors looks pretty silly for not having gone stronger after Cespedes. That doesn't mean someone should now spend $30-40 million on Soler, either.

 

Any time a team gives a $100+ million dollar contract, it's easy to say "they're being crazy and responsible," that won't work out. Does that mean we're smarter than Epstein/Bill James/Cherington for being against the signing(s) of Dice-K, JD Drew, Lackey, Beckett or Carl Crawford?

 

We all have our biases, too. I've always loved Cuban players, does that mean I'm wrong about Viciedo because he's been something of a bust so far this season? Well, time will tell on that one, just like Molina, Mitchell, doesn't matter what propect you're talking about.

 

It reminds me of all those acquisitions like Hermanson, Politte, Cotts, Dye, AJ, Pods, Vizcaino, El Duque and Iguchi, Takatsu...none of us could predict that someone KW had only seen on video would make such a big difference to our team in 2005 and 2006, any more than that same person could have predicted similar players like Kaz Matsui or Nishioka last year with the Twins would be such big busts, respectively. And then there are the situations like Takatsu when you can be both right and wrong about a player. Good signing, low risk/high reward, but it won't work over the long-term. Like Fukudome, maybe.

 

If any of us were so great at doing player evaluations, probably we'd all be working for major league teams by now, right?

Edited April 22, 2012 by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

It's kind of like, yeah, KW (more specifically, Hahn and Cooper) were very right on a player/pitcher because they saw him a couple of times pitching first-hand for the Royals against us late in 2011 and they took a flyer on him.

 

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes, in this case, we might as well be making fun of the Twins, Royals and A's for all giving up on him...especially Beane and Dayton Moore, who can always use pitching, but Billy Smith (again) looks stupid.

 

The same thing could probably be said if you mentioned the reaction when we picked up Gil Heredia and Esteban Loaiza before the 2003 season.

 

Or Silverio, Gomes and Orlando, etc. Mitch Mustain, the ex Arkansas/USC QB. Did anyone in those threads predict he was going to amount to something?

 

We had at this same debate over and over again about Rios, Dunn and Peavy when they were acquired. I guess it's probably easier for the last five years of KW's tenure to just predict that every single acquisition's going to be a disaster.

 

Lillibridge and DeAza, for example. Did anyone predict 3 weeks ago that Kip Wells was going to return to the White Sox rotation this season? Are they idiots for having done so, or was that thread just filled with cynicism and scoffing?

 

Same thing with Stewart and Molina...for all those betting against KW getting an impact pitcher, is KW going to send out letter congratulating us for being right when neither of them makes it (just an example)...or for posters being upset when Holmberg, Hudson, Gonzalez or Chris Young were traded?

 

I remember fighting with numerous posters and admins for years about Brian Anderson being a bust. Does that mean I should go and dig up those posts? Kind of silly, because we've all been wrong more often than we've been right.

 

If you take a controversial or lightning rod position to spark discussion like J4L often does with his player evaluations, you're always going to be wrong just as wrong as major league teams are often quite wrong drafting in the first round. It's not an exact science, nor will it ever be (see Moneyball). Or maybe there's an even more nuanced situation, like Yoenis Cespedes, where you not only have to consider talent/projectability/video displays against unreal competition, but also our budgetary restraints and those consequences. For right now, every team in the majors looks pretty silly for not having gone stronger after Cespedes. That doesn't mean someone should now spend $30-40 million on Soler, either.

 

Any time a team gives a $100+ million dollar contract, it's easy to say "they're being crazy and responsible," that won't work out. Does that mean we're smarter than Epstein/Bill James/Cherington for being against the signing(s) of Dice-K, JD Drew, Lackey, Beckett or Carl Crawford?

 

We all have our biases, too. I've always loved Cuban players, does that mean I'm wrong about Viciedo because he's been something of a bust so far this season? Well, time will tell on that one, just like Molina, Mitchell, doesn't matter what propect you're talking about.

 

It reminds me of all those acquisitions like Hermanson, Politte, Cotts, Dye, AJ, Pods, Vizcaino, El Duque and Iguchi, Takatsu...none of us could predict that someone KW had only seen on video would make such a big difference to our team in 2005 and 2006, any more than that same person could have predicted similar players like Kaz Matsui or Nishioka last year with the Twins would be such big busts, respectively. And then there are the situations like Takatsu when you can be both right and wrong about a player. Good signing, low risk/high reward, but it won't work over the long-term. Like Fukudome, maybe.

 

If any of us were so great at doing player evaluations, probably we'd all be working for major league teams by now, right?

 

Good god, Caulfield

[iamshack]

What's the difference on who does the digging? I was right and others weren't. Oh well. I'm not allowed to bring back comments because I'm an admin? That makes no sense.

No offense, but you stated "Humber could be a waiver steal if they can get him back to his top prospect results."

 

That's not really going out on a limb or anything. I'm pretty certain you and I and Heads post s*** like that after every signing the White Sox make.

 

That's like saying "I'll be rich if I win the lottery."

 

 

[Reddy]

Good god, Caulfield

hahaha literally my reaction when I got to that post was "ugh that's long" and i left the thread.

[southsider2k5]

What's the difference on who does the digging? I was right and others weren't. Oh well. I'm not allowed to bring back comments because I'm an admin? That makes no sense.

 

I prefer to think of them as great lessons for not reacting like a menstral 16 year old who just got dumped by her boyfriend on prom night everytime the Sox make a move.