2012 White Sox Catch-All thread

[fathom]

I disagree. John Danks is potenially a huge problem as is the varying degrees of lack of development of Morel, Beckham, and Viciedo. It has not been a good year for the development side of the organization. Sale has been a huge success, but everything with him depends on that touchy elbow.

 

Quintana's been a huge surprise

[Marty34]

Quintana's been a huge surprise

 

Right, if it's not a fluke and he can remain a 3-4.

[Rowand44]

Here's the numbers for all those guys since the ASB:

 

Cain: 3.21 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, .249 BAA

Hamels: 2.58 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, .241 BAA

Lee: 2.90 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, .260 BAA

Price: 2.02 ERA, .93 WHIP, .202 BAA

 

Peavy: 4.13 ERA, 1.36 WHIP, .282 BAA

Sale: 3.98 ERA, 1.27 WHIP, .266 BAA

What's Sale's era if you take out his last start? Once again, I get people are always worried about this kid but he's really given no indication of "slowing down" minus his last start.

[fathom]

What's Sale's era if you take out his last start? Once again, I get people are always worried about this kid but he's really given no indication of "slowing down" minus his last start.

 

He's definitely slowed down from his pace pre-ASB, but those numbers would have been nearly impossible to match. The long ball has killed him, as he's given up a homer in 7 straight games.

[Jake]

There wasn't much of a reference point for Dayan Viciedo. What is almost certain to be a 20+ HR, 60+ RBI, .250 AVG season seems like an okay reference point.

 

Gordon is a disappointment.

 

Morel is hurt, I have to think.

 

Sale is awesome, Quintana as well. Thompson, Hawkins, Walker, Sanchez, Barnum, and various others are worth thinking about in the MiLB.

 

I'd say this is definitely a good year for the organization, it is safe to say we're moving in the right direction.

[Kalapse]

What's Sale's era if you take out his last start? Once again, I get people are always worried about this kid but he's really given no indication of "slowing down" minus his last start.

3.58. 2 starts with 5 ER, 1 with 4, 1 with 2 and 2 with 1.

[caulfield12]

Beckham isn't in development mode, it's beyond that.

 

And Morel, to be fair, has been hurt all season long.

 

And Tyler Flowers, the last 6 weeks, has emerged as a legitimate possibility as starting catcher in 2013.

 

And you can't conveniently discount the contributions from numerous rookies in the pen like Reed, Nathan Jones, Santiago, Septimo, Omogrosso, Heath, Veal, Marinez, etc. Santos Rodriguez isn't far away from replacing Thornton and saving more money, in some combination with Veal and Septimo.

 

Santiago has a decent chance to end up as our 5th starter and seems to have survived the "closer experiment" by Cooper and Robin.

 

Reed, last time I checked, has lasted now nearly the entire season as a rookie closer. Not great yet by any stretch of the imagination, but he's pretty much replicated Santos' performance at a lower cost.

 

Finally, if you really expected Viciedo to hit .290 with 30+ homers and 90+ RBI's, your expectations were too high. He's done fine for a rookie, just maybe not as consistent or as superhuman as some expected. He'll end the season with around 23-26 homers and 70-75 RBI's, he definitely hasn't HURT the White Sox as much as Morel or Beckham have offensively.

Edited September 2, 2012 by caulfield12

[Marty34]

Beckham isn't in development mode, it's beyond that.

 

And Morel, to be fair, has been hurt all season long.

 

And Tyler Flowers, the last 6 weeks, has emerged as a legitimate possibility as starting catcher in 2013.

 

And you can't conveniently discount the contributions from numerous rookies in the pen like Reed, Nathan Jones, Santiago, Septimo, Omogrosso, Heath, Veal, Marinez, etc. Santos Rodriguez isn't far away from replacing Thornton and saving more money, in some combination with Veal and Septimo.

 

Santiago has a decent chance to end up as our 5th starter and seems to have survived the "closer experiment" by Cooper and Robin.

 

Reed, last time I checked, has lasted now nearly the entire season as a rookie closer. Not great yet by any stretch of the imagination, but he's pretty much replicated Santos' performance at a lower cost.

 

Finally, if you really expected Viciedo to hit .290 with 30+ homers and 90+ RBI's, your expectations were too high. He's done fine for a rookie, just maybe not as consistent or as superhuman as some expected. He'll end the season with around 23-26 homers and 70-75 RBI's, he definitely hasn't HURT the White Sox as much as Morel or Beckham have offensively.

 

Viciedo is a work in progress that has shown serious flaws, Nate Jones is awful and John Danks is the most problematic of all.

 

[caulfield12]

That's your argument for firing KW this off-season?

 

It's not going to fly. You might as well rest until the end of 2013...and make another set of arguments.

 

Everyone knew Dayan was a work in progress when we first signed him. The fact that he's been forced to play 3B, 1B, RF and then LF should be enough testament to his defensive development track alone. They just need to let him play.

 

Nobody knows about Danks...and Nathan Jones overall compared to where he was 1-2 years ago in the minors, nobody expected him to make the impact he has. If he went on the waiver wire tomorrow, every team in the majors would claim him.

[Marty34]

That's your argument for firing KW this off-season?

 

It's not going to fly. You might as well rest until the end of 2013...and make another set of arguments.

 

Everyone knew Dayan was a work in progress when we first signed him. The fact that he's been forced to play 3B, 1B, RF and then LF should be enough testament to his defensive development track alone. They just need to let him play.

 

Nobody knows about Danks...and Nathan Jones overall compared to where he was 1-2 years ago in the minors, nobody expected him to make the impact he has. If he went on the waiver wire tomorrow, every team in the majors would claim him.

 

If they miss the playoffs KW should not be GM next year.

[LittleHurt05]

If they miss the playoffs KW should not be GM next year.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you, but unless they lose the last 33 games of the season, KW will be back next year, guaranteed.

[flavum]

If they miss the playoffs KW should not be GM next year.

 

Well that's obvious.

 

2 playoff teams in 12 years, with one of them being an 88-74 team that needed to win 3 at the end, and a coin flip to get there.

 

Oh, but congrats on that team from 7 years ago. That was all you.

[Marty34]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but unless they lose the last 33 games of the season, KW will be back next year, guaranteed.

 

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that he will be back next year if they miss the playoffs.

[Dick Allen]

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that he will be back next year if they miss the playoffs.

Unless he decides to walk away, it sure is. If he didn't get canned last year, there is no way he's getting canned this year. They have exceeded their own expectations.

[LittleHurt05]

Unless he decides to walk away, it sure is. If he didn't get canned last year, there is no way he's getting canned this year. They have exceeded their own expectations.

 

And a couple young players have emerged, so the future looks brighter relatively

[caulfield12]

We've moved from 29th in future power ratings to 21st in a single season.

 

That seems like progress to me.

 

Last offseason, you might have argued the Astros were the only franchise in worse shape.

[kitekrazy]

That's your argument for firing KW this off-season?

 

It's not going to fly. You might as well rest until the end of 2013...and make another set of arguments.

 

Everyone knew Dayan was a work in progress when we first signed him. The fact that he's been forced to play 3B, 1B, RF and then LF should be enough testament to his defensive development track alone. They just need to let him play.

 

Nobody knows about Danks...and Nathan Jones overall compared to where he was 1-2 years ago in the minors, nobody expected him to make the impact he has. If he went on the waiver wire tomorrow, every team in the majors would claim him.

 

I have no complaints with Viciedo this season. There was unrealistic expectations starting last year that he was going to save the season. I thought he was going to be a butcher in the outfield and he's done quite well and a helluva arm.

 

[kitekrazy]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but unless they lose the last 33 games of the season, KW will be back next year, guaranteed.

 

I think he would still be back. He's Jerry's boy. Guillen tested that last year.

 

[kitekrazy]

We've moved from 29th in future power ratings to 21st in a single season.

 

That seems like progress to me.

 

Last offseason, you might have argued the Astros were the only franchise in worse shape.

 

What changes did the Sox organization make? They must have done something since it doesn't appear as doom and gloom.

 

[greg775]

I have no complaints with Viciedo this season. There was unrealistic expectations starting last year that he was going to save the season. I thought he was going to be a butcher in the outfield and he's done quite well and a helluva arm.

 

.255 batting average 19 hrs and 58 ribbies. Yuck. His OBP is .291. He's having a blah season, folks. Nineteen homers isn't horrendous, but since he's trying to hit a home run every at bat like Dunn, he ought to have at least 25 with all those at bats. The verdict is out on this guy ... sadly. I really was hoping for superstardom.

[knightni]

.255 batting average 19 hrs and 58 ribbies. Yuck. His OBP is .291. He's having a blah season, folks. Nineteen homers isn't horrendous, but since he's trying to hit a home run every at bat like Dunn, he ought to have at least 25 with all those at bats. The verdict is out on this guy ... sadly. I really was hoping for superstardom.

Isn't this his first full season? He's barely 23, right?

 

If he was absolutely struggling at 26 or 27, I'd see your point. But, in my opinion, he's just getting familiar with MLB pitching this year. He's bound to improve with his skill set.

 

 

[elrockinMT]

Isn't this his first full season? He's barely 23, right?

 

If he was absolutely struggling at 26 or 27, I'd see your point. But, in my opinion, he's just getting familiar with MLB pitching this year. He's bound to improve with his skill set.

 

 

I see greg's point here as well as knightni's. The issue with Viciedo is indeed perplexing. Ramirez made it to the bigs and performed right away. It has taken Viciedo something like 3-4 years. I think he is enamored with the home run and that's what I see wrong right now. I think that hared long swing he is taking trying to hit every ball amile is the problem. He needs to cut down on the swing and make contact more up the middle and to right. He can do it and looks pretty good when he tries that approach, but usually it's hard and harder with his swings and he wants to pull everything. A bit more major league experience can help. He is young, can learn through good coaching and I think worth keeping.

[LittleHurt05]

I see greg's point here as well as knightni's. The issue with Viciedo is indeed perplexing. Ramirez made it to the bigs and performed right away. It has taken Viciedo something like 3-4 years. I think he is enamored with the home run and that's what I see wrong right now. I think that hared long swing he is taking trying to hit every ball amile is the problem. He needs to cut down on the swing and make contact more up the middle and to right. He can do it and looks pretty good when he tries that approach, but usually it's hard and harder with his swings and he wants to pull everything. A bit more major league experience can help. He is young, can learn through good coaching and I think worth keeping.

 

Don't forget that Viciedo is 23. Alexei was already 26 in his first season.

[kitekrazy]

I see greg's point here as well as knightni's. The issue with Viciedo is indeed perplexing. Ramirez made it to the bigs and performed right away. It has taken Viciedo something like 3-4 years. I think he is enamored with the home run and that's what I see wrong right now. I think that hared long swing he is taking trying to hit every ball amile is the problem. He needs to cut down on the swing and make contact more up the middle and to right. He can do it and looks pretty good when he tries that approach, but usually it's hard and harder with his swings and he wants to pull everything. A bit more major league experience can help. He is young, can learn through good coaching and I think worth keeping.

 

What kid with power isn't?

 

So is our GM usually at the expense of defense and fundamentals.

 

[kitekrazy]

Unless he decides to walk away, it sure is. If he didn't get canned last year, there is no way he's getting canned this year. They have exceeded their own expectations.

 

He wanted to last season. Jerry talked him out of it.