2012 White Sox Catch-All thread

[LittleHurt05]

Well, Hawk is clearly full of s***: after being traded to the Indians early in the 1969 season Hawk went on to play 6 games at Fenway that season in an Indians uniform. The thing is: that HR didn't take place until his 29th and final AB of the 6 games. The only scenario in which this is feasible is if the Fenway faithful gave him 29 standing ovations or 1 final standing O for his last AB of the series and then did not cheer him again by default since his next AB in that park wouldn't come until the following season.

 

A month or two ago on "Who Ya Crappin", someone had another great example like that. I don't remember the details, but Hawk said something about hitting in a few homers in a certain park (maybe KC), but a quick glance at Baseball Reference proved him 100% full of s***.

[chw42]

Good at least you admitted Rios sucked and Ozzie was only part of the problem.

As far as what changed between now and then?

Maybe Rios decided to earn his money and play to his talent instead of stealing money.

 

And I have said over and over Ozzie's time had probably run its course in Chicago. Robin's will run its course as well. Managers are hired to be fired. If Rios is performing better because big bad Ozzie is gone, fine. Good for Rios. I am not discounting this possibility; no way of proving it either way.

But I will never give Rios a pass for his s***tiness before this season and just say it's on Ozzie like some would like to say.

 

How can you not love Rios?

He's rich.

Richer than Ozzie and YOU.

[greg775]

How can you not love Rios?

He's rich.

Richer than Ozzie and YOU.

 

You guys always pull out one thing I say and fail to explore the reasoning behind my overall stance on Ozzie.

[chw42]

You guys always pull out one thing I say and fail to explore the reasoning behind my overall stance on Ozzie.

 

But Rios has more money than Ozzie

[Kalapse]

A month or two ago on "Who Ya Crappin", someone had another great example like that. I don't remember the details, but Hawk said something about hitting in a few homers in a certain park (maybe KC), but a quick glance at Baseball Reference proved him 100% full of s***.

Baseball Reference is the bane of many old time ballplayer's existence. They got away with exaggerating their on-field exploits for a long time, now there's a fact checker at the ready.

[southsider2k5]

Alex Rios should not be praised for finally earning his money. Give me a break. It's on him for being a piece of crap last year and the other years he sucked. Kudos to him for this year, though. Must be nice to earn the kind of money Rios earns. Critics can say a new manager brought it out of him. That pisses me off. It's ALL ON THE MILLIONAIRE RIOS, not his f***ing coaches.

 

Get over it. Seriously. It isn't just Rios. Guillen led a complete failure of a team last year, which means he failed. It is his job to motivate the players he has on his team. If he doesn't like it, he is in the wrong job. Fastforward to this year. Those same failures are having career years. Peavy, Rios, Dunn, etc. Guillen being too busy fighting with Kenny and worrying about his extension instead of his failure of a team is pisses me off. Could Ozzie forget about money and ego for a while and actually earn his paycheck? He sure as hell didn't earn his check last year, why not the indictment of him?

[southsider2k5]

Good at least you admitted Rios sucked and Ozzie was only part of the problem.

As far as what changed between now and then?

Maybe Rios decided to earn his money and play to his talent instead of stealing money.

 

And I have said over and over Ozzie's time had probably run its course in Chicago. Robin's will run its course as well. Managers are hired to be fired. If Rios is performing better because big bad Ozzie is gone, fine. Good for Rios. I am not discounting this possibility; no way of proving it either way.

But I will never give Rios a pass for his s***tiness before this season and just say it's on Ozzie like some would like to say.

 

Ozzie was the problem. His job was to find a way to get Rios to play. He did not. He failed. Same with Peavy. Same with Dunn.

 

Robin has been successful at those things. His team is in first place.

[greg775]

Ozzie was the problem. His job was to find a way to get Rios to play. He did not. He failed. Same with Peavy. Same with Dunn.

 

Robin has been successful at those things. His team is in first place.

 

If Robin takes us to the postseason, I am going to back him in the future just as I back Ozzie.

I look at the big picture.

Let me ask you all .. let's say our team makes the playoffs this year and Rios returns to being a dog next year and Dunn sucks, etc., and we finish fourth, will you turn on Robin?

My guess is some will. I will not.

I LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE and Ozzie's body of work as he said in the Trib story today was admirable. Actually spectacular in my mind cause we won the WS.

[iamshack]

Greg, you form opinions quickly and stand by them in the face of facts that clearly expose you as being wrong.

 

For whatever reason, people waste their time arguing with you over and over and over again.

 

I'm not sure why.

[Melissa1334]

rios had a good year in 2010

Edited July 19, 2012 by Melissa1334

[Dick Allen]

Blaming Ozzie for Rios not playing hard is just as ridiculous as any praise Greg continues to throw Ozzie's way. Alex is supposed to be professional. Playing hard should be assumed. I am glad he's playing hard now.

.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Blaming Ozzie for Rios not playing hard is just as ridiculous as any praise Greg continues to throw Ozzie's way. Alex is supposed to be professional. Playing hard should be assumed. I am glad he's playing hard now.

.

 

Pretty much. I was gonna post something similar but I'm staying out of this greg vs the board crap. s*** is tired.

[iamshack]

Pretty much. I was gonna post something similar but I'm staying out of this greg vs the board crap. s*** is tired.

It's not Greg vs the board.

 

It's sheer foolishness versus facts, 90% of the time.

 

For comparison, a lot of the board piles on Marty, but Marty actually argues some facts once in awhile and not just some nonsensical opinion.

 

There is a distinction.

 

As for Alex, DA is right. When you make the amount of money that mlb players make, it is because you are considered a true professional. You are expected to produce results just like any other professional employee is. That being said, there is a distinction between crediting a manager for having particular skills that elicit results from those that report to him and placing accountability on the player to perform despite his manager. These are two different things people are stating, not one.

[Chicago White Sox]

Blaming Ozzie for Rios not playing hard is just as ridiculous as any praise Greg continues to throw Ozzie's way. Alex is supposed to be professional. Playing hard should be assumed. I am glad he's playing hard now.

.

Except that Rios wasn't playing hard under Ozzie. I'm not even trying to blame Ozzie for Rios being lazy or not caring. For whatever reason, Ozzie couldnt get through to him. Having said that, Robin has found a way to motivate Rios and it shows when you watch him. I think Robin deserves some credit for that.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Chicago White Sox

[Jordan4life_2007]

It's not Greg vs the board.

 

It's sheer foolishness versus facts, 90% of the time.

 

For comparison, a lot of the board piles on Marty, but Marty actually argues some facts once in awhile and not just some nonsensical opinion.

 

There is a distinction.

 

As for Alex, DA is right. When you make the amount of money that mlb players make, it is because you are considered a true professional. You are expected to produce results just like any other professional employee is. That being said, there is a distinction between crediting a manager for having particular skills that elicit results from those that report to him and placing accountability on the player to perform despite his manager. These are two different things people are stating, not one.

 

That doesn't matter. If 25-30 people daily are going to continue to respond at will to greg's "foolishness," then it's him vs the board. And not everything greg says is dumb. When I think about the failure that was 2011, the first thing that comes to mind for me is Adam Dunn. I'm sorry. I'm not blaming Ozzie for the catastrophe that was his season. I blame Adam and only Adam. Now he's bounced-back. Great. I don't buy for a second that it's because Robin's here and Ozzie's gone.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Jordan4life

[southsider2k5]

If Robin takes us to the postseason, I am going to back him in the future just as I back Ozzie.

I look at the big picture.

Let me ask you all .. let's say our team makes the playoffs this year and Rios returns to being a dog next year and Dunn sucks, etc., and we finish fourth, will you turn on Robin?

My guess is some will. I will not.

I LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE and Ozzie's body of work as he said in the Trib story today was admirable. Actually spectacular in my mind cause we won the WS.

 

You aren't looking at the big picture at all. You are looking at 2005, and all of the pissant reporters who were afraid to say anything bad about him, for fear of not getting all of his great quotes for their papers.

[southsider2k5]

Blaming Ozzie for Rios not playing hard is just as ridiculous as any praise Greg continues to throw Ozzie's way. Alex is supposed to be professional. Playing hard should be assumed. I am glad he's playing hard now.

.

 

Its not just Rios. It is a pattern of veteran players that were good before they got here, sucked for Ozzie, and then got better when they got away from him.

[iamshack]

That doesn't matter. If 25-30 people daily are going to continue to respond at will to greg's "foolishness," then it's him vs the board. And not everything greg says is dumb. When I think about the failure that was 2011, the first thing that comes to mind for me is Adam Dunn. I'm sorry. I'm not blaming Ozzie for the catastrophe that was his season. I blame Adam and only Adam. Now he's bounced-back. Great. I don't buy for a second that it's because Robin's here and Ozzie's gone.

So why is this phenomenon so rare? Why does this only happen to about two or three posters out of hundreds who regularly post?

 

The vast majority of topics we discuss here, reasonable minds can disagree on. Then you get Greg's contributions, and it's like ALL reasonable minds agree that Greg is wrong. Dead wrong. There is a reason for that. And the reason is that his arguments stand in the face of voluminous evidence to the contrary.

 

I'm not saying everything Greg posts is dumb.

 

But the overwhelming majority of it is certainly not what I would characterize as thoughtful.

[iamshack]

OK, so when does this end? Is this going to go on until 2015? Unless greg gets banned, he's not going anywhere. For a while it was just the marlins thread. Now this crap is spreading like wildfire throughout pht. Why is it so hard for people to just ignore him? Qwerty did this years ago.

Oh I agree with you. I don't argue with him either. And I have openly asked others why they bother to.

 

Greg does this because it makes him feel special or important to have all the attention.

 

 

[kitekrazy]

Blaming Ozzie for Rios not playing hard is just as ridiculous as any praise Greg continues to throw Ozzie's way. Alex is supposed to be professional. Playing hard should be assumed. I am glad he's playing hard now.

.

 

WERD! It's not unusual to see teams and players improve when there are coaching changes. You have a new set of a eyes to see flaws that others have missed. It can also be players are stubborn to make changes until they reach a new level of failure.

 

[kitekrazy]

Its not just Rios. It is a pattern of veteran players that were good before they got here, sucked for Ozzie, and then got better when they got away from him.

 

Ah measuring a player in a vacuum. 2005 blows your theory.

 

[kitekrazy]

These Ozzie fights are ruining the board. Please keep it to the Marlins thread, which is ruined already.

 

WhyTF is there a Miami Marlins thread? Where's the Pirates thread? The Marlins thread should be called Trolling for Greg. People know where Greg's weakness is and they blame him for their exploitation. Major Yawn. Greg can't let it go and a majority of members don't want him to either. (mods included)

[fathom]

WhyTF is there a Miami Marlins thread? Where's the Pirates thread? The Marlins thread should be called Trolling for Greg. People know where Greg's weakness is and they blame him for their exploitation. Major Yawn. Greg can't let it go and a majority of members don't want him to either. (mods included)

 

I've actually thought of suggesting a thread for each individual team.

[Jordan4life_2007]

WhyTF is there a Miami Marlins thread? Where's the Pirates thread? The Marlins thread should be called Trolling for Greg. People know where Greg's weakness is and they blame him for their exploitation. Major Yawn. Greg can't let it go and a majority of members don't want him to either. (mods included)

 

lmao. exactly! Where was the Marlins thread in 2011? 2010? 2009? Pathetic. What's funny is, i said ozzie sucked last year and that i believed he was one of the worst WS winning managers of the last decade. Two days later, the hyperbole thread pops up and me saying that was highlighted as an example of excessive hyperbole.

[SOXOBAMA]

I wonder how Veal will do with the Sox this week.