southsider2k5 Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 3, 2012 -> 09:46 PM) In a Tribune article today, a Cubs employee mentioned that 40% of the fans at Wrigley are from out of state on any given day. Which is interesting considering Sox attendance is about 60ish percent of the Cubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 3, 2012 -> 09:46 PM) In a Tribune article today, a Cubs employee mentioned that 40% of the fans at Wrigley are from out of state on any given day. That's what happens when you are on a nationally televised TV station and also have a major newspaper as your marketing department for 20+ years. You can advertise the "experience" of coming and seeing a "beautiful" and "historic" ballpark without ever mentioning how good/bad the team is that plays there. Then suddenly it becomes a tourist destination for people that care nothing about the sport. The other 29 MLB teams actually have to win to get people to show up. Sometimes that's not even enough. Edited September 4, 2012 by Iwritecode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 Mark Gonzales @MDGonzales From Sox notes: Sox are 26-25 vs. AL Central but have lost 8 of past 9 after 25-17 start. Sox play 21 of final 28 games vs. AL Central. Sox are 19-12 vs. Minn since 2011. They were 29-44 vs. Twins from 2007-10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 3, 2012 -> 10:30 PM) The reasons for thinking Q may improve are for one, again, he hasn't even given up that many runs in this tougher stretch he's had. Moreover, his experience against tough competition is little since he was only a marginal choice to be in AA this year. He's at an all-time high in IP at this point and likely is going out there with a bit less than 100% physically most nights. Getting more durable for the stretch run after having a real MLB grind under his belt should leave him able to be a damn good starter. And if he's a 4.3 ERA starter, I'm happy with that too. During his slump I've been impressed with his ability to get himself out of jams. His whip has been astronomical but his era is still decent. This tells me he really knows how to pitch. Anybody who has a problem with Jones and Viciedo is either baseball stupid, or has a clear agenda which doesn't allow them any objectivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 09:30 PM) During his slump I've been impressed with his ability to get himself out of jams. His whip has been astronomical but his era is still decent. This tells me he really knows how to pitch. Anybody who has a problem with Jones and Viciedo is either baseball stupid, or has a clear agenda which doesn't allow them any objectivity. I have no problem with Viciedo; I'm merely pointing out he's having an average at best season considering his BA and on base percentage to go with his overall production of runs. I'd give him a C. If he really is only 23, I guess I'd up that to a C plus. What would you give him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 05:57 PM) I have no problem with Viciedo; I'm merely pointing out he's having an average at best season considering his BA and on base percentage to go with his overall production of runs. I'd give him a C. If he really is only 23, I guess I'd up that to a C plus. What would you give him? Within 2 pages you went from lousy and abysmal to C+. It's hard to take you seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Sep 5, 2012 -> 12:07 AM) Within 2 pages you went from lousy and abysmal to C+. It's hard to take you seriously. C isn't exactly a great grade. I don't think of the tone of my posts suggested Viciedo was scum. More like blah (for this season). At least that was my intent. I don't discount room for improvement though the fan in me wished for runaway success like Trout. For instance, I don't want the Sox to trade him and I do want him to open next season as starting leftfielder. Edited September 4, 2012 by greg775 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 06:19 PM) C isn't exactly a great grade. I don't think of the tone of my posts suggested Viciedo was scum. More like blah (for this season). At least that was my intent. I don't discount room for improvement though the fan in me wished for runaway success like Trout. For instance, I don't want the Sox to trade him and I do want him to open next season as starting leftfielder. Trout is having the best rookie season in history. He's like eating good pizza while boning a supermodel. I expected 270/20/70/300 from Viciedo with awful defense. Next year, I'd expect 280/25/85/325 while continuing to play good defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 06:40 PM) Trout is having the best rookie season in history. He's like eating good pizza while boning a supermodel. I expected 270/20/70/300 from Viciedo with awful defense. Next year, I'd expect 280/25/85/325 while continuing to play good defense. How long should a big revenue team like the Sox wait for Viciedo to reach his potential? LF'ers are a dime a dozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 05:40 PM) Trout is having the best rookie season in history. He's like eating good pizza while boning a supermodel. I expected 270/20/70/300 from Viciedo with awful defense. Next year, I'd expect 280/25/85/325 while continuing to play good defense. It's not impossible that Trout could be a Gordon Beckham next season. I think fans' expectations going back to last year of Viciedo was not very realistic. When was the last time the Sox had a good arm in LF? One team has a Trout be we have a Sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 07:49 PM) How long should a big revenue team like the Sox wait for Viciedo to reach his potential? LF'ers are a dime a dozen. Like any position, until he becomes more expensive than his production would justify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 06:49 PM) How long should a big revenue team like the Sox wait for Viciedo to reach his potential? LF'ers are a dime a dozen. Find me a cheaper player who is available, will put up the same numbers, and with a similar ceiling. Viciedo is near the bottom of rational fans worries. Was the Cuban Missle Crisis super dramatic for you or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 06:54 PM) It's not impossible that Trout could be a Gordon Beckham next season. I think fans' expectations going back to last year of Viciedo was not very realistic. When was the last time the Sox had a good arm in LF? One team has a Trout be we have a Sale. Beckham and Trout aren't even in the same stratosphere. Beckham is like boning a drunken 5 while eating a Tombstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 First "negative" post in months...I think it's time to pull the plug on Q(Till the end of the season anyway). Its gonna be nice to get Gavin back, and I feel more comfortable with Axe and/or Santiago in the rotation right now...Sale-Peavy-Floyd-Liriano-Santiago and Axe if they wanna move to a 6 man is their best bet down the stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 07:56 PM) Like any position, until he becomes more expensive than his production would justify. I've seen you say this many times, it only works to a point. You can have replacement level players at all 9 positions making league minimum. So they are all "worth it." You still have a horses*** team on the field, though. It's not all about ROI, it's about actual production as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Weaver isn't going to start against the Tigers this weekend it sounds like after getting hit by a line drive in his last outing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Ervin Santana, C.J. Wilson and Zack Greinke are expected to start, all on regular rest, against the Tigers this weekend. (Weaver would have been starting this Friday's game, if he kept on the regular schedule from his Sunday start). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 11:04 PM) I've seen you say this many times, it only works to a point. You can have replacement level players at all 9 positions making league minimum. So they are all "worth it." You still have a horses*** team on the field, though. It's not all about ROI, it's about actual production as well. But if every one of them is underperforming their contract, then what is the total team salary? Leaving the pitching staff out, that means your total team salary for your position players is $6.5 million. Meaning...you now have the money available to go out and assemble the greatest pitching staff of all time, and while you're at it, still have a ton of money available to sign a major offensive threat somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 So when was the last time a position player pitched for and against a team in the same season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 06:49 PM) How long should a big revenue team like the Sox wait for Viciedo to reach his potential? LF'ers are a dime a dozen. A) The Sox are not a big market team. Not small market by any means, but definitely not big market. B) Left fielders may be a dime a dozen, but Viciedo is cheap and has a high ceiling. The Sox will give him plenty of time to prove himself. If, when that time expires and he hasn't, the Sox will move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2012 -> 08:20 AM) But if every one of them is underperforming their contract, then what is the total team salary? Leaving the pitching staff out, that means your total team salary for your position players is $6.5 million. Meaning...you now have the money available to go out and assemble the greatest pitching staff of all time, and while you're at it, still have a ton of money available to sign a major offensive threat somewhere. Missed the point. The only thing you are concerned about is ROI on guys who are not producing at all. "Well they aren't making a lot." Well great. They also aren't helping the team win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Are/were Morel, Beckham and Viciedo hurting/helping the Sox? Clearly, Morel was....and they addressed that with YOUK. Beckham and Viciedo are different situations, but somewhat similar salaries. It's a year by year situation with Beckham definitely. Dayan will get at least 2013 and probably 2014 to establish himself, unless he just completely bombs next year, which is pretty hard to imagine happening. Meanwhile, Konerko/Rios/Dunn could all be leaving after '13 and '14, so we need SOMEONE with a potent bat to emerge as that 3-4-5 hitter of the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 Chuck Garfien @ChuckGarfien Last time White Sox allowed 7-plus runs in 2 different innings? 1903 against the Cleveland Broncos. Yeah, those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 07:59 PM) Find me a cheaper player who is available, will put up the same numbers, and with a similar ceiling. Viciedo is near the bottom of rational fans worries. Was the Cuban Missle Crisis super dramatic for you or something? If the Sox don't make the playoffs the offensive downgrade from Quentin to Viciedo will be at the top of the reasons why list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 5, 2012 -> 11:06 AM) If the Sox don't make the playoffs the offensive downgrade from Quentin to Viciedo will be at the top of the reasons why list. He has played 77 game this year. Who played LF for the other 50 in your scenario? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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