macsandz Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Santos - 2 blown saves in 2 chances Quentin - injured and out for surgery Ozzie - Idiot mouth. Fanbase calling for his firing already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 And Buehrle, we already know the story with that situation. Pretty hard to see anything wrong with how things have broken so far, but it's only 4-5 games in. Obviously, it would have been a spark to sign Cespedes or Soler, but the numbers just got too big with the Dunn/Peavy/Rios contracts already on the books, couldn't afford another bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 10:30 PM) Santos - 2 blown saves in 2 chances You better watch out for the Alex Anthopoulos mafia... Nobody better mention Colby Rasmus, either! Edited April 10, 2012 by Wedge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (Wedge @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 10:38 PM) You better watch out for the Alex Anthopoulos mafia... Nobody better mention Colby Rasmus, either! For all the whining about KW in these forums, the Sox do a good job of self-scouting, especially with their own pitchers. Santos is a one-trick pony that the league started to figure out. As I said at the time of the trade, his fastball is late inning average, he can't retire lefties and his slider is hit-or-miss big time. He looks horrible this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 10:34 PM) And Buehrle, we already know the story with that situation. Pretty hard to see anything wrong with how things have broken so far, but it's only 4-5 games in. Obviously, it would have been a spark to sign Cespedes or Soler, but the numbers just got too big with the Dunn/Peavy/Rios contracts already on the books, couldn't afford another bust. The Sox have Cespedes-lite in LF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 09:51 PM) The Sox have Cespedes-lite in LF. Or Cespedes-Heavy! Now 9 K's in 15 AB's for Yoenis, the ultimate all-or-nothing hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 It's obviously way too early to make this declaration and I'm sure Santos will be fine but the one thing I can say is that we had major league ready uber talented replacements for the 3 main guys that KW traded/let go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Cespedes will continue to punish mistakes all year, but good pitchers will figure out pretty quickly (or already have) that you probably shouldn't throw fastballs low in the zone to him, since he tends to hit those about 460 feet. I will go ahead and say Viciedo has a pretty good shot at being a better hitter than the pig roaster this season. Also lets not congratulate Kenny too fast here, we still gotta see what Castro, Molina and Hernandez can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 11:30 PM) Santos - 2 blown saves in 2 chances Quentin - injured and out for surgery Ozzie - Idiot mouth. Fanbase calling for his firing already 4/162 = ~2% Edited April 10, 2012 by ScottyDo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 11:15 PM) It's obviously way too early to make this declaration and I'm sure Santos will be fine but the one thing I can say is that we had major league ready uber talented replacements for the 3 main guys that KW traded/let go. Which very well could become upgrades soon enought. Reed -> Santos Viciedo -> Quentin Sale -> Buehrle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 10:50 PM) For all the whining about KW in these forums, the Sox do a good job of self-scouting, especially with their own pitchers. Santos is a one-trick pony that the league started to figure out. As I said at the time of the trade, his fastball is late inning average, he can't retire lefties and his slider is hit-or-miss big time. He looks horrible this season. I'm on record as being just fine with the Santos trade, but he's not a one trick pony. He will be streaky because there isn't a lot of deception...you know what you are going to get. But even in the early season, he's averaged 94.1 with his fastball and has a career average of 95.5 MPH. Joe Nathan, a guy who anybody should agree with was a power pitcher, has never averaged 95 MPH with his fastball during any season of his career. Santos can bring it just fine. I haven't seen him pitch, but it's certainly possible that he doesn't have a feel for his slider yet - because he's not using it - or he's not getting ahead of hitters - because it is his put away pitch. That's a pitch that he really needs to use, at minimum, 1 of every 4 pitches, but because of its movement, it's really meant to be thrown for balls and for it to appear as a fastball. He reminds me of Brad Lidge, and Brad Lidge was one of the streakiest relievers of all time. He may have a year where he's absolutely terrible, but at some point, he'll bounce right back and be stellar again. Edited April 10, 2012 by witesoxfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Apr 9, 2012 -> 11:26 PM) Which very well could become upgrades soon enought. Reed -> Santos Viciedo -> Quentin Sale -> Buehrle Santiago/Reed/Molina > Santos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I always said Santos had some major red flags. His arm strength could always be an issue. He has trouble repeating his slider. When it's off, he's really hittable. He has a tendency to throw fast balls that go a long, long way. When his slider hangs, even I might be able to hit it. Obviously, it's too early to tell, but I never had a problem with selling high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 12:29 AM) I always said Santos had some major red flags. His arm strength could always be an issue. He has trouble repeating his slider. When it's off, he's really hittable. He has a tendency to throw fast balls that go a long, long way. When his slider hangs, even I might be able to hit it. Obviously, it's too early to tell, but I never had a problem with selling high. I never have a problem selling high on a closer, period. It's a guy you bring on to get 3 guys out. Random guys can come in and be successful closers, and it happens all the time. Hell, Santos was a converted SS who became a successful closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 12:35 AM) I never have a problem selling high on a closer, period. It's a guy you bring on to get 3 guys out. Random guys can come in and be successful closers, and it happens all the time. Hell, Santos was a converted SS who became a successful closer. I really hope the Sox turn into one of those closer factories. It's a great way to turn nothing into something. Teams pay out the nose for good relievers at the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 12:35 AM) I never have a problem selling high on a closer, period. It's a guy you bring on to get 3 guys out. Random guys can come in and be successful closers, and it happens all the time. Hell, Santos was a converted SS who became a successful closer. •1996-1999 Billy Taylor recorded 99 saves in four years and was traded for Jason Isringhausen on July 31st 1999 •2000-2001 Jason Isringhausen notched 67 saves in 2 seasons, signed four year, $27 million deal with St. Louis Cardinals. Beane in return got two compensation picks, both of which never made it out of the minors. •2002 Billy Koch was added in an offseason deal with Toronto. He saved 44 games, then was flipped to the White Sox for Keith Foulke, two others and cash. •2003 Keith Foulke recorded 33 saves, then signed with the Boston Red Sox for $18.75 million over three years. Beane again acquired two compensation picks, catcher Landon Powell and outfielder Danny Putman. •2004 With no closer in the bullpen, Beane acquired Octavio Dotel in June, 2004 in the three team, Carlos Beltran deal. Dotel finished the season with 22 saves. •2005 Dotel gave way to Huston Street after 7 saves. Street had 23 saves himself. Dotel signed with the Yankees in the following off-season. No compensation was given for the loss of Dotel. •2005-2008 Huston Street recorded 84 saves over four seasons. Street was traded after the 2008 season for Matt Holliday. •2009-2011 Andrew Bailey has 60 saves through two plus seasons, and is now “available”. http://www.ultimatesportstalk.com/MLB/2011...elming-rangers/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 01:32 AM) I really hope the Sox turn into one of those closer factories. It's a great way to turn nothing into something. Teams pay out the nose for good relievers at the deadline. It does seem like the Sox have been pretty good at churning out good relievers. And there are a few guys in AA and AAA right now that seem like good future candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 12:29 AM) I always said Santos had some major red flags. His arm strength could always be an issue. He has trouble repeating his slider. When it's off, he's really hittable. He has a tendency to throw fast balls that go a long, long way. When his slider hangs, even I might be able to hit it. Obviously, it's too early to tell, but I never had a problem with selling high. In the grand scheme of things, the kid is still learning how to pitch. That is the biggest issue of all. Every day is a learning experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 12:14 AM) I'm on record as being just fine with the Santos trade, but he's not a one trick pony. He will be streaky because there isn't a lot of deception...you know what you are going to get. But even in the early season, he's averaged 94.1 with his fastball and has a career average of 95.5 MPH. Joe Nathan, a guy who anybody should agree with was a power pitcher, has never averaged 95 MPH with his fastball during any season of his career. Santos can bring it just fine. I haven't seen him pitch, but it's certainly possible that he doesn't have a feel for his slider yet - because he's not using it - or he's not getting ahead of hitters - because it is his put away pitch. That's a pitch that he really needs to use, at minimum, 1 of every 4 pitches, but because of its movement, it's really meant to be thrown for balls and for it to appear as a fastball. He reminds me of Brad Lidge, and Brad Lidge was one of the streakiest relievers of all time. He may have a year where he's absolutely terrible, but at some point, he'll bounce right back and be stellar again. Santos is going to be just fine. He's left some fastballs up that have been hit hard. Yesterday, he couldn't throw the slider for a strike and was leaving the fastball up. He's going to have an outing like that once in a while. I'll bet he bounces back and converts his next 15 opportunities. As for the Sox arms, it's been 4 games, people. Santiago is a nice find but he's going to get whacked around a few times himself. I really love Reed, and I think ultimately he's the long-term closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 And if Arencibia had held onto that throw, it wouldn't have been quite so much of a disaster, but that's always a risk with tag plays at home with a catcher's mitt and a bang-bang play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 07:23 AM) In the grand scheme of things, the kid is still learning how to pitch. That is the biggest issue of all. Every day is a learning experience. He's running out of time. He's no spring chicken. I don't really buy that either. He's the kind of pitcher that says, "Here it comes, try to hit it." He's never going to get guys out with smarts, most closers don't. He's pure stuff. Edited April 10, 2012 by TaylorStSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurtin Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 09:36 AM) Santos is going to be just fine. He's left some fastballs up that have been hit hard. Yesterday, he couldn't throw the slider for a strike and was leaving the fastball up. He's going to have an outing like that once in a while. I'll bet he bounces back and converts his next 15 opportunities. I watched his outing against the Red Sox and it was not an arm strength issue. His fastball was consistently 95, he just couldn't locate it. His slider was worse. I don't think he even had any swings at one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (Big Hurtin @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 10:40 AM) I watched his outing against the Red Sox and it was not an arm strength issue. His fastball was consistently 95, he just couldn't locate it. His slider was worse. I don't think he even had any swings at one. People only have to swing at his slider if they're protecting against his fastball. If he can't get the fastball over, then they can sit back and wait for him to throw a strike with it...and if he throws the slider they're already not swinging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 09:44 AM) People only have to swing at his slider if they're protecting against his fastball. If he can't get the fastball over, then they can sit back and wait for him to throw a strike with it...and if he throws the slider they're already not swinging. See Carlos Marmol although I do not think he throws as hard as Santos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 He had none of his pitches working for him. That will happen occasionally. He had a few outings like that in our uniform as well, but he always bounced back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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