southsider2k5 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 09:48 AM) He had none of his pitches working for him. That will happen occasionally. He had a few outings like that in our uniform as well, but he always bounced back. usually he wouldn't get off to slow starts though. These were the first ever runs he has given up in April. Usually his bad outings came at the end of the season as he tired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 09:00 AM) usually he wouldn't get off to slow starts though. These were the first ever runs he has given up in April. Usually his bad outings came at the end of the season as he tired. There is no "usually" for him, as you stated earlier. How many other April's has he pitched in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Every year there's a thread like this, ready to pounce on how miserable the players we let go are. We are 4 games in. At this point last year Adam Dunn looked like he would not be having the worst statistical year in history. I wish sergio the best, good arm, great story. And unless Molina pans out, our opportunity cost in trading him at that time for molina was more than we received. You don't win trades by having the other player you traded suck miserably. We need to bring in good players if we want to ever be a good team quinarvy's kids are in their 20s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 10:20 AM) There is no "usually" for him, as you stated earlier. How many other April's has he pitched in? This is his third at the major league level. The first two he gave up zero runs both years, in a total of 20.1 IP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 10:27 AM) This is his third at the major league level. The first two he gave up zero runs both years, in a total of 20.1 IP. And as another poster pointed out, it's the first with Toronto, the first with an organization that doesn't care to nurture him along but expects him to produce now... There may be something to your point about starting off this way, but really, the sample size is too small to really take anything away from it with any kind of certainty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 10:30 AM) And as another poster pointed out, it's the first with Toronto, the first with an organization that doesn't care to nurture him along but expects him to produce now... There may be something to your point about starting off this way, but really, the sample size is too small to really take anything away from it with any kind of certainty. I'm not calling it a certainty at all. Just pointing out that this it the opposite of his young history. Don't read too much into the statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I think Santos will be just fine, he has an explosive slider that comes and goes like alot of slider pitchers. However, it looks like we didnt miss a beat with our current closer and perhaps closer in waiting with Reed. Both may have better overall stuff than Sergio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Santiago's been consistently at 93-94-95 with the fastball. Santos so far anywhere from low 90's to 97. I think Santiago's delivery is a bit harder to pick up...definitely doesn't have Sergio's slider, but he's got two different offspeed pitches he can throw for strikes, which ends up being perhaps better than Santos' two pitch arsenal due to the variety. You have the sense with Santiago that he doesn't feel he HAS to come with a fastball when he's down in the count. Reed and Jones both throw with about the same velocity as Sergio, and Reed compares similarly because of that nasty slider of his, although you'd have to give the edge to Sergio so far of the two in terms of who has a better one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 10:56 AM) Santiago's been consistently at 93-94-95 with the fastball. Santos so far anywhere from low 90's to 97. I think Santiago's delivery is a bit harder to pick up...definitely doesn't have Sergio's slider, but he's got two different offspeed pitches he can throw for strikes, which ends up being perhaps better than Santos' two pitch arsenal due to the variety. You have the sense with Santiago that he doesn't feel he HAS to come with a fastball when he's down in the count. Reed and Jones both throw with about the same velocity as Sergio, and Reed compares similarly because of that nasty slider of his, although you'd have to give the edge to Sergio so far of the two in terms of who has a better one. Reed also has a change that helps against LHP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 04:10 AM) Or Cespedes-Heavy! Now 9 K's in 15 AB's for Yoenis, the ultimate all-or-nothing hitter. Can we really compare these two yet? Cespededs with no minor league expereince and Viciedo with three and struggling at times. I am hoping Dayan blossoms and his moving around to different positions probably hasn't helped, but I am not going to say trading Santos and Quentin and letting MB walk were great moves by KW just because we are a few games into the season and they aren't at the top of their game at this point. They are gone and we have a different team for 2012. I appreciate all those three did for the Sox and we are moving on just as they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 07:21 PM) Can we really compare these two yet? Cespededs with no minor league expereince and Viciedo with three and struggling at times. I am hoping Dayan blossoms and his moving around to different positions probably hasn't helped, but I am not going to say trading Santos and Quentin and letting MB walk were great moves by KW just because we are a few games into the season and they aren't at the top of their game at this point. They are gone and we have a different team for 2012. I appreciate all those three did for the Sox and we are moving on just as they are. It's really ridiculous. Give the guy some time. If I had time, I would go through the threads from last year predicting failure of a number of players after 4 or 5 games. I think Cespedes needs some time. Remember Alexeis first April? He was brutal before reclaiming that spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Santos will probably end up where he was with the Sox. A middle-of-the-road closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 05:44 PM) Santos will probably end up where he was with the Sox. A middle-of-the-road closer. He was definitely in the Top 6-8 closers in the game until the last two blown saves against the Tigers. Usually that rate's 85% and above, but there are lots of other stats to look at...number of one run, two run and three run leads preserved, WHIP, BAA, inherited runners scored, 1-2-3 innings, performance in tie games, how many times when he blew a save the team still won the game (although that's also dependent on the team's offense), how many games he not only blew the save but also the outright lead, etc. I suppose it's fair to say he's in that 12-18 range now, although his first two blown saves is either an anomaly or part of a dangerous downward trend that started in the second half of 2011 and is still continuing today. Or, the AL East is just a lot tougher division. The number of closers who are consistently elite is obviously less than a handful. For the 2000's, it was Rivera, Nathan, Papelbon, Hoffman and Billy Wagner, in no specific order really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 #WhiteSox Nestor Molina who Chicago traded Sergio Santos to the #BlueJays for got hammered tonight. 4.2IP, 5ER, 9H, 1BB, 1K. 7.27ERA in 2Gs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 04:06 AM) #WhiteSox Nestor Molina who Chicago traded Sergio Santos to the #BlueJays for got hammered tonight. 4.2IP, 5ER, 9H, 1BB, 1K. 7.27ERA in 2Gs I do not pretend to be a scout. All I know is the video I saw of Molina showed him as a soft tossing meatball artist. I hope he succeeds but those of you who have seen highlights ... his pitches are slowwwwwww. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 The month of April in MBL is still Spring training except the games count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 10:44 PM) I do not pretend to be a scout. All I know is the video I saw of Molina showed him as a soft tossing meatball artist. I hope he succeeds but those of you who have seen highlights ... his pitches are slowwwwwww. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 10:44 PM) I do not pretend to be a scout. All I know is the video I saw of Molina showed him as a soft tossing meatball artist. I hope he succeeds but those of you who have seen highlights ... his pitches are slowwwwwww. So what? Your favorite pitcher in the whole wide world is a soft tosser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Apr 10, 2012 -> 12:35 AM) I never have a problem selling high on a closer, period. It's a guy you bring on to get 3 guys out. Random guys can come in and be successful closers, and it happens all the time. Hell, Santos was a converted SS who became a successful closer. I agree that selling high on a closer is wise. But we didn't really get a high price in return for selling high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 04:15 PM) I agree that selling high on a closer is wise. But we didn't really get a high price in return for selling high. But if we got Reddick, Head and Alcantara (the payout for Bailey), would we be any better off? I'm not saying that's the exact trade the Red Sox would have made with us for Santos, just using it as a comparison. Guess it just depends...Reddick would have been in Fukudome's role with us, but is he really more of an everyday player or just another version of Ryan Sweeney with a bit more pop in his bat? If the White Sox go through the 2012 season without any problems at closer and/or Santos struggles, there won't be QUITE so much heat on KW. But between Stewart and Molina, one of those guys should be expected to be something more than a spare part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Ryan Sweeney with more pop in his bat would be a solid corner OF. Of course, we have plenty of corner OF's right now, and the one that Pierre blocked last year is doing ok. When we say we should have gotten more from Torotno...that doesn't mean we'd want to trade with Boston...it means that if we were going to trade Santos to Torotno, it would have been really nice to get one more piece back in addition to Molina. Even if it was father away than Molina, something else to add to our system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 08:39 PM) Ryan Sweeney with more pop in his bat would be a solid corner OF. Of course, we have plenty of corner OF's right now, and the one that Pierre blocked last year is doing ok. When we say we should have gotten more from Torotno...that doesn't mean we'd want to trade with Boston...it means that if we were going to trade Santos to Torotno, it would have been really nice to get one more piece back in addition to Molina. Even if it was father away than Molina, something else to add to our system. Just used this an example because the Red Sox were one of the teams that came out and said they wished they had known Santos was on the trade market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 01:42 PM) So what? Your favorite pitcher in the whole wide world is a soft tosser. Mark? Yeah but Molina can only dream about having a career like Mark's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 11, 2012 -> 09:40 PM) Mark? Yeah but Molina can only dream about having a career like Mark's. As can 99.9% of major leaguers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 Waaayyy to early to measure the return on the Santos trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.