KW: Stay Out of White Sox Minor League Business

[caulfield12]

Except you have the issue of those 9 home-grown players not even being close to the equivalent of a superstar-level of player, with the possible exception of Chris Sale, if he can stay healthy.

 

Beckham, at his very best, was going to be an 825-875 OPS, maybe 900 (if he could improve his walk ratio) type of hitter, but a little big less than a superstar. Not quite the power of an Utley or even Pedroia, more of a doubles hitter. Of course, at one point, the Padres were in preliminary talks to deal one of the top five young hitters in the game for him, although that had just as much to do with economics (one year of their Gonzalez for 5 of Beckham's future years, I think) as actual fair market value of two players in a similar contractual situation.

 

Somehow, KW has been able to unearth a Bobby Jenks here, a Santos there, a Humber...enough to offset some of the biggest mistakes, which stand out as the two Swisher trades and the Holmberg/Hudson for Edwin Jackson move.

 

The funny thing is we still might be able to survive Molina and Zach Stewart flopping if our veterans perform and our bullpen continues to perform well.

 

Or look at the Twins and the players they've brought to the big leagues in the last 3 years.

 

How many of them could you even name? If they're just filling roster spots but not making significant contributions or giving you beyond replacement level value, it's not helping to put a winning product out on that field in the end.

 

 

 

 

[Marty34]

Sorry, my experience here at the University of Missouri calls bulls*** on this. I have to submit 2 or 3 headlines per article.

 

The University of Missouri is not the newspaper business.

[caulfield12]

So what is it that you want KW to do?

 

Include himself in the second Hunger Games movie? Be a part of Battle Royale III in Japan and maybe unearth another Takatsu/Fukudome/Iguchi simultaneously?

[ScottyDo]

Include me in the group that doesn't understand what the title has to do with the article, or where the discussion has subsequently gone.

 

Marty, you have been pretty critical of KW in the past...are you being sarcastic with the title or agreeing with KW's stance on the system or what?

[Chicago White Sox]

Include me in the group that doesn't understand what the title has to do with the article, or where the discussion has subsequently gone.

 

Marty, you have been pretty critical of KW in the past...are you being sarcastic with the title or agreeing with KW's stance on the system or what?

Yeah, I have no idea where he's going with the title. You can make an argument that minor league rankings don't matter that much or they aren't very accurate, which seems to kind of be KW's point in the article. However, this "stay out of our business" title is clearly part of Marty's anti-KW agenda.

[Marty34]

Include me in the group that doesn't understand what the title has to do with the article, or where the discussion has subsequently gone.

 

Marty, you have been pretty critical of KW in the past...are you being sarcastic with the title or agreeing with KW's stance on the system or what?

 

It's about being skeptical of what these minor league ratings are worth. If the pen is close to as good as it has been (Reed, Santiago, Jones), the gurus were either A.) wrong, B.) the ratings are worthless. Doesn't even take into account the position players.

[Marty34]

Now, that doesn't mean the Sox system is the best in baseball. What it does tell me is it isn't the worst either, as some have said. These publications are so obsessed with their own analysis of players in the system - which itself is a highly subjective and subject to lots of mistakes - that they focus only on that evaluation of supposed to talent to make their rankings. They are missing some some of the larger points.

 

Precisely. These guru's also might be behind the curve. Developing solid middle-relievers might be as important as developing middle-of-the-rotation starters these days.

[southsider2k5]

The University of Missouri is not the newspaper business.

 

So what do you know that qualifies you know more than student in a Big Ten journalism school?

[southsider2k5]

Include me in the group that doesn't understand what the title has to do with the article, or where the discussion has subsequently gone.

 

Marty, you have been pretty critical of KW in the past...are you being sarcastic with the title or agreeing with KW's stance on the system or what?

 

a.g.e.n.d.a.

[Marty34]

So what do you know that qualifies you know more than student in a Big Ten journalism school?

 

I know that the University of Missouri is not the newspaper business. And FWIW, it's not a Big Ten journalism school.

[southsider2k5]

I know that the University of Missouri is not the newspaper business. And FWIW, it's not a Big Ten journalism school.

 

So duck the question much?

[Marty34]

So duck the question much?

 

I was afraid to answer the question because I might not know more about journalism.

[ScottyDo]

It's about being skeptical of what these minor league ratings are worth. If the pen is close to as good as it has been (Reed, Santiago, Jones), the gurus were either A.) wrong, B.) the ratings are worthless. Doesn't even take into account the position players.

Got it. Agreed. I think if we have a relatively successful season this year, it has to be acknowledged that the ratings have been bunk and that KW has done an underrated job recently (not totally absolved because he has made some questionable trades).

[caulfield12]

Yeah, I have no idea where he's going with the title. You can make an argument that minor league rankings don't matter that much or they aren't very accurate, which seems to kind of be KW's point in the article. However, this "stay out of our business" title is clearly part of Marty's anti-KW agenda.

 

 

He's basically announced recently that he's going back to twitter again (now that Ozzie and Oney are gone and things have cooled a bit with past controversies over the drafting of whose children was prioritized) and making it MORE of his job to get out to the minor league affiliates and interacting with the media.

 

This kind of runs counter to the whole idea of anyone staying out of White Sox minor league business.

 

Or, if our spin is really that we have 9 home-grown players and that we've produced a treasure trove of short relievers in Santiago, Jones, Sale, etc., then say that.

 

But you can never assess a system based on developing relievers when the system has been so bereft of impact bats for the last decade. Because of that, we've been forced to part with the likes of Hudson and Gio to get more veteran experience (Jackson/Swisher) that could help to "win now" instead of some point in the indefinite future.

 

But if Beckham and Morel can't stick as starters in 2013/2014, what have we actually produced of value, other than Sale and hopefully Santiago?

Edited April 15, 2012 by caulfield12

[Marty34]

Got it. Agreed. I think if we have a relatively successful season this year, it has to be acknowledged that the ratings have been bunk and that KW has done an underrated job recently (not totally absolved because he has made some questionable trades).

 

It's all about what's valued and maybe the Sox are ahead of the curve here. Obviously top-of-the-rotation starters are a priority, but after that maybe it's best just to draft a bunch of guys who throw hard and hope to get them to the big leagues as quick as possible as part of a bullpen as opposed to wasting picks on guys who might are #3-#4 innings eaters type starters who take longer to develop.

 

[Marty34]

I am a Kenny Williams supporter as long as the team he put together wins. That is my agenda.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Marty34

[ScottyDo]

He's basically announced recently that he's going back to twitter again (now that Ozzie and Oney are gone and things have cooled a bit with past controversies over the drafting of whose children was prioritized) and making it MORE of his job to get out to the minor league affiliates and interacting with the media.

 

This kind of runs counter to the whole idea of anyone staying out of White Sox minor league business.

 

Or, if our spin is really that we have 9 home-grown players and that we've produced a treasure trove of short relievers in Santiago, Jones, Sale, etc., then say that.

 

But you can never assess a system based on developing relievers when the system has been so bereft of impact bats for the last decade. Because of that, we've been forced to part with the likes of Hudson and Gio to get more veteran experience (Jackson/Swisher) that could help to "win now" instead of some point in the indefinite future.

 

But if Beckham and Morel can't stick as starters in 2013/2014, what have we actually produced of value, other than Sale and hopefully Santiago?

Some of these are maybe arguable, but of people who never played in the majors before reaching the Sox:

 

Alexei Ramirez

Dayan Viciedo

Addison Reed

John Danks

Nate Jones

Eduardo Escobar

Brent Lillibridge (maybe he got a September callup)

Tyler Flowers

 

and that list doesn't have the people precluded by the question. It also doesn't include talent traded to other teams but developed in the Sox system.

 

On another note, I am somewhat disappointed that KW hasn't been fighting those rankings with some marketing, not because the rankings are legitimate, but because they may affect the trade value of our players. Sure, we don't have the bullets to trade for an impact starter now, but if some hype were generated around the likes of Mitchell or Thompson, maybe we'd be in a different position. GM's may or may not put any stock in these rankings, but it could still influence their behavior because fans DO care about them. These rankings could determine fan reaction to a trade, which is probably fairly important given that fans are the ultimate source of revenue.

 

KW should have been hyping our prospects the whole time regardless of the relative impotence of BP's projections.

[Chicago White Sox]

But you can never assess a system based on developing relievers when the system has been so bereft of impact bats for the last decade.

I think one thing people need to remember is that pitching has been a priority for organization under KW. We go pitching-heavy in almost every draft. We seek young pitching when making trades. As a result, we should expect more pitching to come though the system than position players, which is exactly what's happened. I also think this makes it harder to evaluate the system, because we usually only have a couple of position players prospects at a time that actually have a chance of being above average major leaguers. That can make the system look a lot weaker than it really is IMO.

[Quin]

I was afraid to answer the question because I might not know more about journalism.

 

Yes, but students have to work for Newspapers here to pass Journalism classes.

 

I'm sorry it's no Kent State.

[caulfield12]

Some of these are maybe arguable, but of people who never played in the majors before reaching the Sox:

 

Alexei Ramirez

Dayan Viciedo

Addison Reed

John Danks

Nate Jones

Eduardo Escobar

Brent Lillibridge (maybe he got a September callup)

Tyler Flowers

 

and that list doesn't have the people precluded by the question. It also doesn't include talent traded to other teams but developed in the Sox system.

 

On another note, I am somewhat disappointed that KW hasn't been fighting those rankings with some marketing, not because the rankings are legitimate, but because they may affect the trade value of our players. Sure, we don't have the bullets to trade for an impact starter now, but if some hype were generated around the likes of Mitchell or Thompson, maybe we'd be in a different position. GM's may or may not put any stock in these rankings, but it could still influence their behavior because fans DO care about them. These rankings could determine fan reaction to a trade, which is probably fairly important given that fans are the ultimate source of revenue.

 

KW should have been hyping our prospects the whole time regardless of the relative impotence of BP's projections.

 

Except Danks didn't spend any time with us in the minors, Lillibridge was largely developed by the Braves, it's at least 50/50 with Flowers being groomed into a top prospect with the Braves (along with PED use, we should take credit for much of his defensive development), then Ramirez/Viciedo were internationally experienced Free Agents and again Ramirez was already a finished product.

 

Same with DeAza.

 

Even Sale was more "talent selection" rather than development. You could really say the same about Beckham.

 

The only players we've nurtured from start to finish have been Morel, Addison Reed, Nathan Jones, Escobar and 50-75% Viciedo.

Edited April 15, 2012 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Except Danks didn't spend any time with us in the minors, Lillibridge was largely developed by the Braves, it's at least 50/50 with Flowers being groomed into a top prospect with the Braves (along with PED use, we should take credit for much of his defensive development), then Ramirez/Viciedo were internationally experienced Free Agents and again Ramirez was already a finished product.

 

Same with DeAza.

 

Even Sale was more "talent selection" rather than development. You could really say the same about Beckham.

 

The only players we've nurtured from start to finish have been Morel, Addison Reed, Nathan Jones, Escobar and 50-75% Viciedo.

Again though, the "Start to finish" thing really is bull when you've got a GM who makes more trades than anyone else in baseball, because guys who move up but get traded don't count, and guys we trade for don't count.

[Soxfest]

 

KW with his typical arrogant I am smarter than anyone babbling.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Soxfest

[caulfield12]

"I learned the valuable asset of controlled aggression,'' the White Sox general manager said Friday. "As a football-mentality type guy I didn't know how to translate my aggressiveness into a sport where you have to back off and have kind of a controlled aggression. It wasn't until Cito Gaston pointed something out that it clicked.''

 

Controlled aggression. Williams stood up in the Sox dugout to demonstrate, swinging an imaginary bat as he reminded himself out loud to contain his emotions until unleashing them at the right time to maximize impact.

 

"It worked,'' Williams said, smiling. "But by the time I got it, it was too late. I was relegated to the bench.''

 

More of KW's "wisdom"

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

You obviously don't have even the simplest understanding of how the newspaper business works. The writer of an article is not responsible for the headline. Hence the above statement does not work.

 

I haven't worked for a professional newspaper yet, but the staffs I have been a part of in HS and college were never like that. Yeah, everything a writer does is subject to change by the editors, but I find it hard to believe a writer submits a story with no title, and the editor makes his own. Highly doubt it.

[Quin]

I haven't worked for a professional newspaper yet, but the staffs I have been a part of in HS and college were never like that. Yeah, everything a writer does is subject to change by the editors, but I find it hard to believe a writer submits a story with no title, and the editor makes his own. Highly doubt it.

 

Like I said, the paper I work for down here requires we submit three different headlines.