Addressing the Offensive Short Comings

[Chisoxfn]

I'm still not willing to concede this.

Defensively both are good and Escobar has more to prove but Escobar, while he has limited pop, he certainly looks to have a better approach and a far shorter swing. I don't know what happened to Gordon but he has a god awful approach and swing. And I've been consistently saying this since last spring training.

[southsider2k5]

I'm still not willing to concede this.

 

Escobar is a guy who had a .666 career minor league OPS. Even with the horribleness that has been he recent career, Gordo is at .700 at the major league level. Not to mention Gordo is a borderline gold glover. For me, Beckham would have to really show no signs of progress over the first month or two before I'd consider a switch. Even then, I would be looking at Lilli before Escobar. Unless something big changed in Escobar, we are talking about a defensive replacement type utility man for a ceiling.

[Chisoxfn]

Escobar is a guy who had a .666 career minor league OPS. Even with the horribleness that has been he recent career, Gordo is at .700 at the major league level. Not to mention Gordo is a borderline gold glover. For me, Beckham would have to really show no signs of progress over the first month or two before I'd consider a switch. Even then, I would be looking at Lilli before Escobar. Unless something big changed in Escobar, we are talking about a defensive replacement type utility man for a ceiling.

There is something about him that tells me he's going to hit for a decent average. Little pop which is why he will have a lowerish OPS. But, I'm okay with that, assuming he can project into the 2 spot. And again, I'm not saying Escobar is some kind of like, more just the fact that I think Gordon is a complete bum.

[southsider2k5]

There is something about him that tells me he's going to hit for a decent average. Little pop which is why he will have a lowerish OPS. But, I'm okay with that, assuming he can project into the 2 spot. And again, I'm not saying Escobar is some kind of like, more just the fact that I think Gordon is a complete bum.

 

Its funny I watch Escobar and all I can think of is Ozzie Guillen.

[iamshack]

Defensively both are good and Escobar has more to prove but Escobar, while he has limited pop, he certainly looks to have a better approach and a far shorter swing. I don't know what happened to Gordon but he has a god awful approach and swing. And I've been consistently saying this since last spring training.

I recognize that RIGHT NOW, for instance, in the next 5-20 games, Escobar may produce better results offensively than Beckham, but considering the delta between the two, even when Gordon plays at his absolute worst and Escobar at his best, I'd much rather eat that shortfall and give Gordon a chance to resurrect is career.

 

However, I think it may be time for Gordon to go back to Charlotte...and if that is what the organization determines, then yes, let OC (I mean Escobar) play in the interim (and Lilli).

 

But that would be doing so for different reasons.

Edited April 16, 2012 by iamshack

[fathom]

Make Lillibridge the everyday starter at 2b then if you're going to give up on Beckham.

[southsider2k5]

Make Lillibridge the everyday starter at 2b then if you're going to give up on Beckham.

 

This. To me Escobar is the 25th man on the roster. It is going to take more than a spring that is way out of his career norms to change my mind. If Gordo needs to go, then Brent is the next guy in line.

[caulfield12]

This is tantamount to saying Andy Gonzalez should have been made a full-time starter in 2007/2008.

 

Let's not get carried away with Escobar too much.

 

Andy has/had a 720 career OPS in the minors, a full 54 points ahead of Eduardo. He's actually still playing in the Southern League/AA, for Huntsville.

 

Escobar can run better, he's a "plus" defender at SS but we can't assume he'll just seamlessly become Alexei's double play partner at 2B when 90-95% of his career has been spent at SS.

 

I put the Escobar as full-time starter at 2B in the same category as Conor Jackson as the platoon partner for Dunn.

[Lillian]

I put the Escobar as full-time starter at 2B in the same category as Conor Jackson as the platoon partner for Dunn.

 

Ouch. That hurt. LOL

[caulfield12]

Ouch. That hurt. LOL

 

 

Okay, the odds of Jackson getting 200+ AB's are greater than Cowley winning the Pulitzer Prize.

[Chisoxfn]

I recognize that RIGHT NOW, for instance, in the next 5-20 games, Escobar may produce better results offensively than Beckham, but considering the delta between the two, even when Gordon plays at his absolute worst and Escobar at his best, I'd much rather eat that shortfall and give Gordon a chance to resurrect is career.

 

However, I think it may be time for Gordon to go back to Charlotte...and if that is what the organization determines, then yes, let OC (I mean Escobar) play in the interim (and Lilli).

 

But that would be doing so for different reasons.

It is sad I'm talking about either of these guys as starters at this point. Beckham needs some serious work and I agree with you that AAA would be the best place to do it. I am hoping that a new hitting coach could be just what the doctor ordered.

[Lillian]

Okay, the odds of Jackson getting 200+ AB's are greater than Cowley winning the Pulitzer Prize.

 

Well, I guess I now have a vested interest in Conor Jackson's career. He's going to be this year's "Alejandro de Aza" for me.

De Aza is the last player whom I tauted on this site. I raved about him for almost two years, and everyone on this board, gave me such

grief: "He's a 4TH outfielder", "A career Minor Leaguer," "He's a AAAA player".

 

I was pretty thrilled when he finally showed everyone what he could do, last season.

 

I'm hoping that you neighsayers will be eating crow over Conor Jackson, this season.

 

"Come on, Coner"

[Balta1701]

Look at de Aza's splits from last year, and his Minor League play. He is adequate vs. LHP, but not nearly as good as he is vs. RHP, which is where Lillibridge really excels.

By the way, I forgot to ask this yesterday...what site gives you LH/RH minor league split statistics?

[Lillian]

By the way, I forgot to ask this yesterday...what site gives you LH/RH minor league split statistics?

 

I've never found a site that gives historical Minor League splits. There are sources for the current season, but not past years.

 

When I spoke of de Aza's great numbers versus RHP at Charlotte, it was from memory. I even remember posting his numbers in a thread, during the 2010 season.

If anyone knows where to find previous seasons' split Minor League stats, please pass the information along.

[cabiness42]

I'm in favor of keeping a regular pattern through the first 40 games. Use pretty much the same starting lineup each game while giving the bench players each 1-2 starts a week. Then after the 40th game, you have a good sample size on the starters and still a somewhat small one with the bench guys but still enough info to figure out what the optimal lineup will be the rest of the season.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

How come the new hitting coach isn't getting any grief? In previous years, it was all the old hitting coach's fault.

Small sample size.

[justBLAZE]

Scout on Gordon's struggles:

 

MLB scout on #WhiteSox 2B Gordon Beckham (.136): "He’s not getting his front foot down, and that’s the most important part of the swing.”

 

Scot Gregor via twitter.

[Lillian]

I think I'll add McPherson to the list of replacement candidates. Send Escobar and Stewart to Charlotte, and bring up both Jackson and McPherson.

Dallas starts at 3B vs RHP. Morel is the starter vs LHP, and the defensive replacement, in the late innings.

 

Jackson takes all of the LHP at bats from Dunn. If you think it's too early to give those at bats to Jackson, then bring up Dan Johnson, and give them to him. I know that he's left handed, but he's never seemed to have much of a problem hitting LHP. Some hitters are actually better against pitchers from the same side.

 

It's only when a guy demonstrates that he can't hit either lefties or righties, that you need to make a change or platoon, as is the case with Dunn. Can you believe that he's 0 for 11 vs. lefties so far. Here we go again.

I just can't watch Dunn giving away every bat versus LHP. Anyone can see, that he has no chance.

 

The current offense simply can't be allowed to repeat last year's debacle. There is no reason to stubbornly stick to Rios, Beckham, Morel, and against LHP, Dunn.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Lillian

[Balta1701]

There is no reason to stubbornly stick to Rios, Beckham, Morel, and against LHP, Dunn.

Developing for the future, like we should be doing.

[southsider2k5]

I think I'll add McPherson to the list of replacement candidates. Send Escobar and Stewart to Charlotte, and bring up both Jackson and McPherson.

Dallas starts at 3B vs RHP. Morel is the starter vs LHP, and the defensive replacement, in the late innings.

 

Jackson takes all of the LHP at bats from Dunn. If you think it's too early to give those at bats to Jackson, then bring up Dan Johnson, and give them to him. I know that he's left handed, but he's never seemed to have much of a problem hitting LHP. Some hitters are actually better against pitchers from the same side.

 

It's only when a guy demonstrates that he can't hit either lefties or righties, that you need to make a change or platoon, as is the case with Dunn. Can you believe that he's 0 for 11 vs. lefties so far. Here we go again.

I just can't watch Dunn giving away every bat versus LHP. Anyone can see, that he has no chance.

 

The current offense simply can't be allowed to repeat last year's debacle. There is no reason to stubbornly stick to Rios, Beckham, Morel, and against LHP, Dunn.

 

There is zero reason to call up Dallas McPherson, or anyone else who isn't in the plans for the future.

[LittleHurt05]

Scout on Gordon's struggles:

 

MLB scout on #WhiteSox 2B Gordon Beckham (.136): "He’s not getting his front foot down, and that’s the most important part of the swing.”

 

Scot Gregor via twitter.

 

Does Jeff Manto have Twitter? Someone RT that in his direction, it can't hurt.

[Balta1701]

Does Jeff Manto have Twitter? Someone RT that in his direction, it can't hurt.

Gordon Beckham has heard so many comments on his hitting technique by this point that you may as well tweet that to him in chinese.

[southsider2k5]

Gordon Beckham has heard so many comments on his hitting technique by this point that you may as well tweet that to him in chinese.

 

And that is probably most of the problem right now. He probably has a dozen plans when he steps into the box.

[flavum]

There is zero reason to call up Dallas McPherson, or anyone else who isn't in the plans for the future.

 

I don't buy that here on April 17th. The Sox have a good pitching staff, and there's no reason for this team not to play to win.

 

Sending Morel and/or Beckham wouldn't be a punishment. It's to help them get back some confidence at the plate without the big league pressure weighing on them every at bat. If a McPherson or Conor Jackson, or anyone else can help even a little over the next 6-8 weeks, then they should make some moves very soon.

 

The schedule is very gettable the first half. There's no reason why the Sox can't be 50-35 at the break if they get some offense from anywhere.

[Balta1701]

I don't buy that here on April 17th. The Sox have a good pitching staff, and there's no reason for this team not to play to win.

 

Sending Morel and/or Beckham wouldn't be a punishment. It's to help them get back some confidence at the plate without the big league pressure weighing on them every at bat. If a McPherson or Conor Jackson, or anyone else can help even a little over the next 6-8 weeks, then they should make some moves very soon.

 

The schedule is very gettable the first half. There's no reason why the Sox can't be 50-35 at the break if they get some offense from anywhere.

Calling up "Dallas McPherson and Conor Jackson and giving them regular playing time" is not "Playing to win" by any reasonable definition.