southsider2k5 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I love the fact the guy can admit when he was wrong. I wonder if anyone around Chicago is taking notes? http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Chicago...-Central-041612 What's the vibe in ChiSox clubhouse? Ken Rosenthal Share This Story Updated Apr 16, 2012 2:54 PM ET White Sox general manager Ken Williams doesn’t want to compare his new manager, Robin Ventura, to his old one, Ozzie Guillen. No, Williams is moving forward, talking about the present, not the past. A rival executive takes a less diplomatic view, saying that Guillen was an “inefficiency” who prevented the White Sox from reaching their full potential. Things certainly are quieter under Ventura, who has yet to say anything about Fidel Castro or even Starlin Castro. And the Sox are 5-3 after winning two of three from the mighty Tigers. GREAT AMERICAN RACE The Junior Circuit is poised for epic AL pennant chases this season. C’mon, Ken, it’s a different vibe, isn’t it? “You know, it’s really difficult for me to (say) that and not have people make comparisons to what was last year and the year before,” Williams said. “I’m trying to be as cognizant of that and respectful as I can. I want to answer everyone’s questions. But at the same time, people want to make that correlation. The comparison is not fair. “All I care about is the team doing what we have to do to win. We have to play better fundamentally across the board to have any hope of competing with the Tigers in our division. We have a talented team. Some people have missed that a little bit. Amidst all the stuff going on, we have some talented players.” Talented players going about things properly. The White Sox are scoring only four runs per game, ahead of only the Mariners, Twins and Athletics in the American League. They’re striking out at a higher rate than any team in the AL. But they’re fourth in the league with a 3.34 ERA, and overall, Williams likes what he sees. “We’ve faced a good Texas team, a good Detroit team. They pitch, especially the Texas team,” Williams said. “I expected slow starts offensively, but as I told Robin, we could have lost all three games in Texas (instead of two) and I would have sent him the same message: I like the fight that I am seeing. “Guys are grinding away at-bats. Even with the strikeouts, they’re working counts, fouling off tough pitches against tough pitchers, giving themselves up to move runners. Good old-fashioned baseball. “There is little margin for error for us. We’re like those Minnesota Twins teams that beat our team when we were more talented. Every time I go to Minnesota and I look up at those division banners, I think we had a better team that year and that year and that year – talent-wise. But they won. “How did they win? That’s something Robin and I talked about the very first day when we talked about him taking the job. They committed to it. They committed to being a good and fundamentally sound team.” The White Sox finally are making the same commitment. Draw your own conclusions. FIRST MEA CULPA OF 2012? Well, I still don’t like when teams hire managers who lack previous managing or coaching experience; the job, in my view, is too difficult for a novice. Yet, even at this early stage, Ventura and the Cardinals’ Mike Matheny appear ready to prove me wrong, in part because I failed to appreciate unique qualities that both men share. As one rival executive points out, both Ventura and Matheny were accomplished players who enjoyed long careers. Their respective experiences provide both with a certain calmness; managing will not define who they are. Williams points out something else that I missed – both Ventura and Matheny played in the cities where they now manage. They understand the fan base, the expectations. In turn, people know who they are, what they’re about. Matheny benefits from inheriting such a professional roster, Ventura from being the anti-Ozzie. I’m sure both will make rookie mistakes. But my initial analysis was incomplete, and quite possibly incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 A few times when the tv cameras panned the dugout I had a hard time picking out Robin. That's a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 It's interesting. One one hand you have the fact that people are finally willing to admit that Ozzie was hurting the White Sox as myself and Milkman pointed out forever ago, and on the other hand you have someone with zero experience staying out of the way, and the Sox being better simply because of that. I love Robin. I'm not seeing anything managerially that makes me think he's a difference maker. He is, however, better than Ozzie. That alone is worth applause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Going to let the season play out more, but I was a fan of Ventura from day 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Wow that is pretty stand-up, to admit fault publicly like that. Although let's be honest not everybody was happy about the pick back then, especially when you had people like Francona available. Does anybody else notice a different dugout vibe? Not just from TV but yesterday live, it just seems like everybody's really focused and having energy. Maybe I'm projecting but I swear there's like this new vibe. Even though we lost yesterday it wasn't the gloomy bummer that... well, virtually all of 2011 was when we lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 03:02 PM) Wow that is pretty stand-up, to admit fault publicly like that. Although let's be honest not everybody was happy about the pick back then, especially when you had people like Francona available. Does anybody else notice a different dugout vibe? Not just from TV but yesterday live, it just seems like everybody's really focused and having energy. Maybe I'm projecting but I swear there's like this new vibe. Even though we lost yesterday it wasn't the gloomy bummer that... well, virtually all of 2011 was when we lost. I was having the discussion with someone at work today, that the team already seemed smarter. I haven't seen any of the baseball IQ blunders that plagued this team in the last few years. Guys aren't throwing to wrong bases, missing cutoff men, running into outs, or screwing up rundowns this year. I know it is early, and this is small sample size, but is anyone else seeing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 09:07 PM) I was having the discussion with someone at work today, that the team already seemed smarter. I haven't seen any of the baseball IQ blunders that plagued this team in the last few years. Guys aren't throwing to wrong bases, missing cutoff men, running into outs, or screwing up rundowns this year. I know it is early, and this is small sample size, but is anyone else seeing it? Absolutely, two big things I've loved so far by Ventura are giving the hitters a 3-0 green light and utilizing a pitch out in an obvious running situation. Also, he's done a great job of pulling starting pitchers before they get into a lot of trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 04:07 PM) I was having the discussion with someone at work today, that the team already seemed smarter. I haven't seen any of the baseball IQ blunders that plagued this team in the last few years. Guys aren't throwing to wrong bases, missing cutoff men, running into outs, or screwing up rundowns this year. I know it is early, and this is small sample size, but is anyone else seeing it? Rios did have that bonehead drop in the OF the other day, and De Aza had a complete misplay yesterday that cost a run. Don't know if those count or not, but that's what comes to mind so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 03:18 PM) Rios did have that bonehead drop in the OF the other day, and De Aza had a complete misplay yesterday that cost a run. Don't know if those count or not, but that's what comes to mind so far. Those aren't really mental errors as much as Rios being a pretty boy and De Aza misreading a ball. I think we've been more in the game thus far, but we're still not where we need to be fundamentally from the plate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kageman129 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I see the difference as well. The team honestly looks like they want to win; last year it almost seemed like they were trying to find little ways to lose in order to get Guillen fired or something. I'm sure they weren't, but it seemed that way sort of. I just think playing for a guy like Robin has been such a calming vibe for the whole organization and everyone is just working their butt of to show Robin what they are made of, and silence the critics. I was definitely a fan of hiring Robin, I think he'll continue to do a great job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 03:20 PM) Those aren't really mental errors as much as Rios being a pretty boy and De Aza misreading a ball. I think we've been more in the game thus far, but we're still not where we need to be fundamentally from the plate... De Aza was a victim of the wind more than anything else. It was brutal yesterday (and today for that matter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Yeah I was there yesterday and that ball I believe either suddenly hung up or changed directions due to the wind. You could see him start in on it then frantically change directions trying to catch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I don't mean to argue, but I think his primary mistake is that he misread the ball badly. The wind didn't help, but he broke way back on a ball that Laird didn't hit well at all. Whether he could have caught it without the wind, I don't know, but his main problem was the misread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 01:15 PM) I love the fact the guy can admit when he was wrong. I wonder if anyone around Chicago is taking notes? That's is nice to see a national scribe own up to this... “There is little margin for error for us. We’re like those Minnesota Twins teams that beat our team when we were more talented. Every time I go to Minnesota and I look up at those division banners, I think we had a better team that year and that year and that year – talent-wise. But they won. “How did they win? That’s something Robin and I talked about the very first day when we talked about him taking the job. They committed to it. They committed to being a good and fundamentally sound team.” JESUS...can we get over the Minnesota "Knob Fest"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Well, sheet: this is nothing new about the Twins. People have been saying this for years about Minnesota, both those in and outside the organization. I always thought 2005 was our attempt to be like them, with all that talk of fundamentals and smartball, small ball, Ozzie ball, whatever it was. (Note: please do not start an argument about how 2005 had nothing to do with small ball. Been there, done that). So then what the hell has been going on the last, say, six years? He knew were were not fundamentally sound, did nothing? I don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 03:18 PM) Rios did have that bonehead drop in the OF the other day, and De Aza had a complete misplay yesterday that cost a run. Don't know if those count or not, but that's what comes to mind so far. Dunn was doubled off second on a Paulie line drive to the short stop. That is the true mental error I've seen. But they definitely seem fewer this year so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 08:38 PM) I don't mean to argue, but I think his primary mistake is that he misread the ball badly. The wind didn't help, but he broke way back on a ball that Laird didn't hit well at all. Whether he could have caught it without the wind, I don't know, but his main problem was the misread. This is what I saw plus Hawk and Stone said he misplayed it. Yes, the wind did play a factor though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 A rival executive takes a less diplomatic view, saying that Guillen was an “inefficiency” who prevented the White Sox from reaching their full potential. Hah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 03:38 PM) I don't mean to argue, but I think his primary mistake is that he misread the ball badly. The wind didn't help, but he broke way back on a ball that Laird didn't hit well at all. Whether he could have caught it without the wind, I don't know, but his main problem was the misread. Yea his initial break was bad, and then by the time he realized his mistake the wind knocked the ball down and he had no shot at it. The funny thing is, the ball landed just a little bit in front of where he was standing before the play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Let's see where things stand at the end of April. In actuality, this Orioles' loss has very little to do with Robin Ventura, he simply has inferior talent. If Jones and/or Addison Reed were available for the 10th, I'm sure he would have used them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Let's see how this series play out, Ventura has a job to be done tonight/tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I like Robin, but Rosenthal is jumping the gun a bit. Tonight was a disaster. We've now played a whopping four home games. He overreacted with that column. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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