Collective anger against Beckham/Morel/Dunn/Rios thread

[iamshack]

I'd prefer it if AJ not just call all fastballs to right-handed hitters with Santiago pitching.

 

Beckham should be sent down. His approach sucks. His results suck. There is nothing else to say. What can it hurt, other than his psyche, which already seems to be on life support.

 

Morel is a f***ing disaster, but we can't send down Beckham AND Morel at the same time. Send down Gordon first and let Brent try and work through it. If he doesn't, send Morel down when you bring Beckham back up (assuming he does indeed come back up).

 

There is nothing to be said about Rios or Dunn. Keep throwing them out there.

 

Reed is the much better closing prospect IMO. Santiago is a nice arm, but his fastball is too straight and when he doesn't have his screwball working he cannot get right handed hitters out. I'd use Santiago as my first lefty out of the pen and replace him at closer with Reed.

 

I'm not giving up on Zach Stewart yet. Everyone calling for his head because of last night is jumping the gun a bit. He's an idea long man for us.

 

De Aza has now boned a play on consecutive days. I'm going to hope it's just not his week. Fielding errors in the OF are pretty rare, so he should be fine going foward. I wouldn't mind seeing him sat once in a while for Lilli though. Gotta get Lilli more at bats...

[Chicago White Sox]

The only moves that really should happen soon IMO are sending Beckham down, calling Kuhn up, and moving Morel to 9th in the lineup.

 

I know Kuhn is far from a sure thing, but I'd prefer to give him playing time over Escobar. Honestly, a Kuhn/Lillibridge platoon might be decent option in the two-hole while Beckham tries to figure his s*** out in AAA.

 

As bad as Morel has been, he needs to be in our lineup everday. I just want him in a spot where there's little pressure and limited situational hitting.

[Steve9347]

Said the whole offseason that this year was about "Development". Developing these guys, except maybe in Beckham's case, means at bats and dealing with the struggles. Play the guys and stop complaining.

So, you're big plan is to develop players like Adam Dunn, Alex Rios, Paul Konerko, AJ Pierzynski, Alexei Ramirez, Alejandro De Aza? Maybe I can see this with Morel and Viciedo, but the rest of these guys are 30 or damn near it (save Gordon Brokhen).

 

We should develop the pitchers, they are our bread and butter. I like what I'm seeing there in that regard, save I want Reed closing immediately.

 

I haven't, however, given up on this season, but the Sox are not going to go far at the current rate they are striking out.

[Big Hurtin]

No one anywhere should care about this.

 

Sarcasm. I didn't think green was necessary.

[Balta1701]

So, you're big plan is to develop players like Adam Dunn, Alex Rios, Paul Konerko, AJ Pierzynski, Alexei Ramirez, Alejandro De Aza? Maybe I can see this with Morel and Viciedo, but the rest of these guys are 30 or damn near it (save Gordon Brokhen).

 

We should develop the pitchers, they are our bread and butter. I like what I'm seeing there in that regard, save I want Reed closing immediately.

 

I haven't, however, given up on this season, but the Sox are not going to go far at the current rate they are striking out.

Yes.

 

If Dunn and Rios fall flat, then the team won't be going anywhere. Calling up Conor Jackson and Dallas McPherson to replace them and carry the team to the playoffs is laughable. Playing Brent Lillibridge 600 at bats and expecting him to carry you to the playoffs is similarly silly.

 

Put Dunn and Rios out there until their contracts are up or they retire.

 

Put De Aza, Morel, and Viciedo out there and try to make them into big leaguers. They're assets, they have talent, De Aza wouldn't be on your list if not for a ocuple mental errors. You turn 2 of the 3 into regular big leaguers, you've had a major accomplishment.

 

Play Konerko and Pierzynski because you kinda have to...and if the team falls apart while you're playing the other guys, then finally throw in the towel and shoot to move them in June/July.

[caulfield12]

I'd prefer it if AJ not just call all fastballs to right-handed hitters with Santiago pitching.

 

Beckham should be sent down. His approach sucks. His results suck. There is nothing else to say. What can it hurt, other than his psyche, which already seems to be on life support.

 

Morel is a f***ing disaster, but we can't send down Beckham AND Morel at the same time. Send down Gordon first and let Brent try and work through it. If he doesn't, send Morel down when you bring Beckham back up (assuming he does indeed come back up).

 

There is nothing to be said about Rios or Dunn. Keep throwing them out there.

 

Reed is the much better closing prospect IMO. Santiago is a nice arm, but his fastball is too straight and when he doesn't have his screwball working he cannot get right handed hitters out. I'd use Santiago as my first lefty out of the pen and replace him at closer with Reed.

 

I'm not giving up on Zach Stewart yet. Everyone calling for his head because of last night is jumping the gun a bit. He's an idea long man for us.

 

De Aza has now boned a play on consecutive days. I'm going to hope it's just not his week. Fielding errors in the OF are pretty rare, so he should be fine going foward. I wouldn't mind seeing him sat once in a while for Lilli though. Gotta get Lilli more at bats...

 

 

 

28 of last 61 baserunners have reached against him.

 

7.88 ERA in all games not against the Twins' AA/AAA line-up last year

 

90-91 MPH fastball that he can't keep down or away from the heart of the plate

rocked consistently at the end of spring training

 

let the roof completely collapse last night

Edited April 17, 2012 by caulfield12

[elrockinMT]

Last night when I had checked the Sox had a 3-1 lead. Then I saw the final score on MLB Network. 10-4 in 10 innings! As they sasid the flood gates opened. Shades of last season when the bullpen struggled. I knew the hate mail was coming and maybe it is deserved but I am going to wait for awhile and hope this is an aberration. Let's go get em tonight Sox

[caulfield12]

So, you're big plan is to develop players like Adam Dunn, Alex Rios, Paul Konerko, AJ Pierzynski, Alexei Ramirez, Alejandro De Aza? Maybe I can see this with Morel and Viciedo, but the rest of these guys are 30 or damn near it (save Gordon Brokhen).

 

We should develop the pitchers, they are our bread and butter. I like what I'm seeing there in that regard, save I want Reed closing immediately.

 

I haven't, however, given up on this season, but the Sox are not going to go far at the current rate they are striking out.

 

 

DeAza's been around forever but he's still only 28.

 

Clearly there are question marks about him putting up even an 800 OPS for the entire season, but 725-750 would be a HUGE improvement over what we got out of Alex Rios at that position last year.

 

Maybe he's not a building block and he's just a stop-gap until someone like Mitchell (2013) or Trayce Thompson (2014) can be added to the outfield. There are doubts that either Mitchell or Thompson can play CF at the big league level, so having someone that can play adequate or above that a bit defensively is great. DeAza didn't cost us anything, either.

 

You've got Flowers/Phegley for catcher....the mix of Lillibridge/Escobar/Kuhn for 2B, Morel or Saladino for 3B...but we're really not in a position for BOTH Morel AND Beckham to flop if we want to compete in 2013.

 

OR....KW is going to have to pull off a miraculous set of trades involving AJ, Floyd, Peavy, Thornton and/or Crain to plug in those gaps.

 

Deciding whether to keep Ramirez and/or Konerko have always been the biggest set of question marks for ownership, going forward.

 

As Balta pointed out, even if attendance is abysmal this year, we've shed $25-30 million in payroll from last year and we're currently only deriving 25%, at most 30%, of our revenues from ticket sales. And that percentage is shrinking every year....so they're not going to be FORCED to trade Konerko unless they decide that's the best option for the franchise moving forward.

 

 

 

 

[LVSoxFan]

I can assure you that sliding down the hill to a sub-.500 record before May even gets here will result in another abysmal attendance year like 2011. Attendance has been going down, down, down since 2006 and 2011's numbers were almost 1 million less than 2006.

 

I think the key in the business is how well you can get the "casual fans" to show up with regularity. And casual fans don't seem to want to attend games by teams considered losers or out of the race.

 

I mean, even CUBS fans got tired of the "loveable loser" allure and you saw some pretty empty games there last year, even when it was nice out.

 

What I cannot understand is why Beckham is not sent down to clear his head. My co-worker says this should have been done two years ago (agreed) and it's absolutely baffling why it's not being done now, because his head is just gone. He thinks Beckham is done as a baseball player forever. I don't know that I'd go that far--to say he's a Billy Beane--but somebody needs to do something stat.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Santiago gets that call on Reimold and this thread doesn't exist, Sox are 6-3, Stewart gets another day off and we're all living in hunky dory land .

 

Really who didn't expect this to happen ? Sometimes I wish Sox fans were more like Cub fan.

 

It's possible to support the team without becoming so involved in every pitch or aspect of the organization.

 

Knowledgeable fans are great but if that knowledge leads to overt cynicism and not going to games or buying Sox products it's comparable to a bandwagon fan just there for when they win.

Edited April 17, 2012 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Wanne]

Santiago gets that call on Reimold and this thread doesn't exist, Sox are 6-3, Stewart gets another day off and we're all living in hunky dory land .

 

this. I woke up this morning and that was one of the first things I thought about...still a little bitter. I have no problems with Santiago...love the kid..he'll be fine. I think Morel will eventually come around...but if we're in a race can we wait til September again? Beckham...I've pretty much completely given up on him and that long loopy swing. Love to see him get back to the "choppin' wood" swing...but he needs to do that down in Charlotte. Tough loss but we'll have a few of those...it'll be how they bounce back that counts.

[fathom]

I can assure you that sliding down the hill to a sub-.500 record before May even gets here will result in another abysmal attendance year like 2011. Attendance has been going down, down, down since 2006 and 2011's numbers were almost 1 million less than 2006.

 

Assuming season ticket sales are lower this year than last (which we haven't heard otherwise), then it will be an upset in my opinion if 2012 attendance is higher than 2011.

[flavum]

Beckham is a career .225 hitter in his home park. That's almost 3 years of a sample size. It's time to do something. I hate to say it, but he's got to go down to Charlotte in a last ditch effort to get some confidence at the plate, and if he doesn't find it, they have to move him.

[LVSoxFan]

Assuming season ticket sales are lower this year than last (which we haven't heard otherwise), then it will be an upset in my opinion if 2012 attendance is higher than 2011.

 

It must be pretty bad when White Sox ticket agents are calling ME pitching season tix. They've never done that before. The last time I had season tix (Ozzie plan) was in 2005.

 

[southsider2k5]

So, you're big plan is to develop players like Adam Dunn, Alex Rios, Paul Konerko, AJ Pierzynski, Alexei Ramirez, Alejandro De Aza? Maybe I can see this with Morel and Viciedo, but the rest of these guys are 30 or damn near it (save Gordon Brokhen).

 

We should develop the pitchers, they are our bread and butter. I like what I'm seeing there in that regard, save I want Reed closing immediately.

 

I haven't, however, given up on this season, but the Sox are not going to go far at the current rate they are striking out.

 

If the developmental players do indeed fail this year (Gordo, De Aza, Morel, the pen, etc) these players are our future in the sense that they are getting shipped out to somewhere for the next generation of developmental players.

[Wanne]

Personally if I was Gordo I'd watch film...and more film of himself in his last year of college and first year up. You know the guy I'd like to see him emulate...and I always thought he'd be the right handed hitting version of him was Chase Utley. Nice short compact stroke like Gordo used to have. Gordo is still young and has a chance to be a good one if he ever irons out that long swing.

[Balta1701]

Personally if I was Gordo I'd watch film...and more film of himself in his last year of college and first year up. You know the guy I'd like to see him emulate...and I always thought he'd be the right handed hitting version of him was Chase Utley. Nice short compact stroke like Gordo used to have. Gordo is still young and has a chance to be a good one if he ever irons out that long swing.

Another on the list of things I guarantee Gordon Beckham has done.

[LVSoxFan]

Seriously is there anybody who DOESN'T think he should go down for a month or so? Because I haven't heard it.

[Balta1701]

Seriously is there anybody who DOESN'T think he should go down for a month or so? Because I haven't heard it.

Apparently, Robin Ventura.

 

I don't know what's going on with the kid's mind right now, but the job of turning him around is on the coaching staff. If they think sending him down is the wrong move...well, it's their jobs on the line, not ours.

[southsider2k5]

Seriously is there anybody who DOESN'T think he should go down for a month or so? Because I haven't heard it.

 

I don't, at least not yet. Unless Ventura/Parent/Manto think so, I give him time to prove himself. For me the clock started over with the new administration.

[greg775]

Beckham is a career .225 hitter in his home park. That's almost 3 years of a sample size. It's time to do something. I hate to say it, but he's got to go down to Charlotte in a last ditch effort to get some confidence at the plate, and if he doesn't find it, they have to move him.

 

 

Seriously is there anybody who DOESN'T think he should go down for a month or so? Because I haven't heard it.

 

Out of sight out of mind.

I think we're all sick of watching him struggle and want a break from Gordon Beckham.

He's one of our many candidates to hit ninth. Too bad our lineup wasn't so good Sox could stick him at ninth and we'd have a defensive specialist at second.

He's a flop. He can't hit. Send him down to reinvent himself and try somebody else.

[Balta1701]

I don't, at least not yet. Unless Ventura/Parent/Manto think so, I give him time to prove himself. For me the clock started over with the new administration.

This group genuinely needs to be showing progress by the end of 2013 and on the doorstep of contending. If Beckham is likely to be non-tendered after that point as a 2nd year arb player (which he would be if he's hitting like this), that is a major failure and one that could rank very highly on things that will cost everyone their jobs.

[bjm676]

I'd wish we still had Chris Getz. I'm serious.

[southsider2k5]

http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/sox-drawer/...72968106330-914

 

Brent Morel has not been able to carry over momentum from a strong finish to his rookie season in 2011. (US PRESSWIRE)

 

CHUCK GARFIEN

csnchicago.com flag

 

 

Take a look at the batting averages in the White Sox starting lineup, and there are two numbers that stand out like a pair of Cubs fans walking down the middle of a street in Bridgeport: .115 & .103.

 

Those are the current averages, respectively, for Gordon Beckham and Brent Morel, who have been digging themselves in a such a hole at the plate there are fans and critics who wonder if the team should begin a rescue mission -- one that includes a long rope strong enough to pull both of them onto the bench (or even to Triple-A) until they figure out their hitting woes.

 

In nine games, Morel has 13 strikeouts in 29 at-bats. Beckham has 11 punchouts in 26 at-bats, and has yet to drive in a run.

 

So what’s the problem? How has this gone so wrong so fast? And what can both of them do to get out their rut?

 

Before Tuesday’s game, the struggling infielders spoke openly and honestly about their early battles.

 

“I don’t know what’s going on with the strikeouts. It’s amazing how many strikeouts I’ve had because I usually don’t do that,” said Beckham, sitting at his locker. “I hit some balls hard yesterday after the first at-bat to the rest of the at-bats. I made an adjustment and it was the right adjustment. So there was progress last night in an 0-for-4 in a positive way.”

 

What kind of an adjustment did he make?

 

“It’s just getting my foot down and let my hands do the work, because the hands are my moneymaker,” he explained.

 

In his rookie year in 2009, we saw what those hands can do. Beckham would often drive the ball to all parts of the field, where the ball found plenty of grass. He batted .270 with 14 homers and 63 RBIs in 103 games. But after two consecutive lost seasons, the pressure is on for Beckham to perform. He knows it, but he’s not about to panic.

 

“I think that a lot of this has gotten blown up a little bit because it’s seven or eight games in and averages are fluctuating,” Beckham said. “I just heard a stat where Miguel Cabrera came in and was hitting .533. Now he’s hitting .219 (Actually .222). Early in the season a lot of this is magnified to where maybe in the middle of the season it wouldn’t be.”

 

As for talk amongst fans and media about him possibly losing his job, it’s news to Gordon.

 

“I haven’t heard anything like that,” he said. “Whoever that is, is not my problem. People can think what they want to think. It’s [nine] games.”

 

After belting eight homers and driving in 19 runs last September, Morel was hoping to carry that over to the start of this season. However, that hasn’t happened yet. Brent’s struggles are even more magnified because he’s batting second. He has three hits -- only one for extra bases -- and at this point, doesn’t have an answer to fix what’s wrong.

 

“I don’t know. If I knew, I wouldn’t be in this position,” Morel said. “I’m just trying to battle and not to try to look in the past, and not try to gain it all back too quick. Just trying to take it at short time frames and looking at good at-bats.”

 

Morel believes he’ll eventually break out of his slump, but walking to the plate with a .103 batting average flashing next to your name is not easy.

 

“It’s tough. Nobody wants to go up here and fail,” Morel said. “It’s tough on you. It’s a lot easier when we’re winning. Like last night, you get that loss and it makes it a little bit worse.”

 

Despite their struggles at the plate, Beckham and Morel are not taking their problems to the field, where both have played exceptional defense.

 

So, when will the hits come?

 

“I know I had a good spring,” Beckham said. “I know it’s right there.”

[caulfield12]

Poor Brent looks to be the only whipping boy after tonight's game.

 

Beckham had a key RBI, Rios is getting on base, Dunn with 2 walks and the bases clearing double, Peavy looked strong again...

 

Whereas Brent had one of his two worst games of the season (the other was in Texas where he had 4 K's, an error and then messed up the potential double play that led to the winning RBI from Michael Young).