Collective anger against Beckham/Morel/Dunn/Rios thread

[Marky Mark]

Honestly, if Beckham can't show some sign of progress by the end of the month, I think sending him down to the minors would be the best thing for him. He needs a confidence boost and an environment where he can let himself hit without pressure to make the right kind of adustments.

[caulfield12]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CH...201104110.shtml

 

The dreaded Pierre/Thornton game...then there was the game Cliff Pennington drove in the winning run off Thornton, same series.

 

At that point, we were 6-3, and went on to lose 19 out of 24 ballgames, to fall to an 11-22 mark we never really recovered from.

 

We'll see what kind of cloth Robin Ventura is made of soon enough. No matter how good our starting pitching has been, you can't hope to compete with the Detroit Tigers with only 3 legit starters in your line-up (AJ, Konerko, Ramirez). We're crossing our fingers on Viciedo, but over the course of a 162 game season, not even the 2010 Giants had the pitching to cover up for our offense.

 

When you compare our line-up with the Yankees, Rangers or Tigers...it just doesn't come close to matching up.

 

We should be realistic. DeAza hasn't been nearly as good as last season, and Beckham/Morel/Dunn/Rios all look the same or even worse. At some point, opposing pitchers will just stop pitching to Konerko and/or AJ, like Showalter did tonight, in order to face Rios.

 

 

[lostfan]

Beckham still has options. I mean, why not... dude is completely broken right now. Let's just get it overwith.

[greg775]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CH...201104110.shtml

 

The dreaded Pierre/Thornton game...then there was the game Cliff Pennington drove in the winning run off Thornton, same series.

 

At that point, we were 6-3, and went on to lose 19 out of 24 ballgames, to fall to an 11-22 mark we never really recovered from.

 

We'll see what kind of cloth Robin Ventura is made of soon enough. No matter how good our starting pitching has been, you can't hope to compete with the Detroit Tigers with only 3 legit starters in your line-up (AJ, Konerko, Ramirez). We're crossing our fingers on Viciedo, but over the course of a 162 game season, not even the 2010 Giants had the pitching to cover up for our offense.

 

When you compare our line-up with the Yankees, Rangers or Tigers...it just doesn't come close to matching up.

 

We should be realistic. DeAza hasn't been nearly as good as last season, and Beckham/Morel/Dunn/Rios all look the same or even worse. At some point, opposing pitchers will just stop pitching to Konerko and/or AJ, like Showalter did tonight, in order to face Rios.

 

I guess one silver lining is we are gonna find out if it's the same ol s*** or if Robin truly is a miracle worker. If the team battles back to split this series or gasp win 3 of 4 then he's a special leader. Cause tonight's game as you pointed out is the type to send a Sox team spiraling downward.

I'll be impressed if we somehow split this series after tonight. I sure as hell am not expecting 3 of 4.

[justBLAZE]

Who do you call up to take Beckhams spot?

[greg775]

Beckham still has options. I mean, why not... dude is completely broken right now. Let's just get it overwith.

 

Can't argue with that.

I wonder what kind of guy Beckham is. I wonder if it'd help or hurt for Robin to tell Beckham he's thinking of sending him down, a last ditch chance to get him to concentrate, adjust and get some f***ing hits.

Or if that simply is not done in sports and you merely send a guy down when he's s***ty enough. That a final warning of sorts is simply not condoned.

Edited April 17, 2012 by greg775

[Bubba Philips]

Beckham still has options. I mean, why not... dude is completely broken right now. Let's just get it overwith.

When I first saw Beckham I thought he should make the team out of spring training. Once he was up I thought his short quick swing would guarantee him a long career instead of a long career I've seen his swing get too long.

[caulfield12]

Who do you call up to take Beckhams spot?

 

 

Jordan Danks as 4th OFer.

 

Lillibridge to starting 2B, or a combination of Lilly and Escobar until one or the other gets hot (depending on the pitching match-ups each day).

 

Or if that simply is not done in sports and you merely send a guy down when he's s***ty enough. That a final warning of sorts is simply not condoned.

 

He's absolutely aware something has got to give. Morel was a rookie last year, Gordon's had almost 3 full seasons now to prove himself. Rios and Dunn are going nowhere.

 

Edited April 17, 2012 by caulfield12

[TaylorStSox]

1. Stewart and Beckham down to Charlotte

2. Lillibridge starting everyday (might as well find out whether he can play everyday now)

3. Morel back to bottom of the order

4. Ramirez batting 2nd, we can't afford to have AJ there with how well he's been going offensively

5. Pray for Dunn and Rios, but don't boo them

6. Pick the name of Stults, Axelrod or Bruney out of a hat to replace Stewart

7. Lillibridge playing infield, you probably go with Jordan Danks for Gordon to provide OF depth, or possibly Conor Jackson (that's for Lillian)

8. Find a Marco Paddy who can make recommendations on hitting prospects, bring back the scouts who identified Carlos Quentin/Ramirez/Viciedo to have them play a bigger role in the June draft assessment process.

9. Continue to monitor McPherson as a band-aid, but not long-term solution for a continued Morel tailspin.

 

Zach Stewart won't survive in the big leagues at 90-91 MPH without pinpoint control. As a starter or reliever.

 

With Peavy gone next year, Molina and Santiago are the two best candidates to replace him. For the future of the organization, Hector should be groomed as a starter to go along with Sale. It won't happen this week or this month, but it SHOULD happen. Closing has caused him to forget about his repertoire of offspeed pitches, which is what shot him all the way into the Sox plans from total obscurity at the beginning of last year.

 

Hope that AJ stays hot and can be marketed to a better team whose starting catcher goes down. With how well he's hitting, you might even get a useful piece or two back in return.

 

Hold onto Gavin Floyd until June/July and realistically assess whether it's better to trade him or hold onto him for 2013, if there's at least a 50/50 chance we can be competitive next year (see the performances of Dunn, Morel, Rios and Viciedo).

 

Feel out the trade market for both Jesse Crain and/or Matt Thornton, depending on offers received.

 

You realize you just wrote a giant post with 9 pretty drastic changes after the 9th game of the season, right? 5-4, with no expectations. Let's change everything!

"I love it when you over analyze."

 

[caulfield12]

You realize you just wrote a giant post with 9 pretty drastic changes after the 9th game of the season, right? 5-4, with no expectations. Let's change everything!

"I love it when you over analyze."

 

The only real dramatic change would be sending Beckham down.

 

Stewart's surely on his way out soon.

 

I guess if you call moving Morel down and Ramirez to the 2 spot a big change...not really.

 

 

[lostfan]

Can't argue with that.

I wonder what kind of guy Beckham is. I wonder if it'd help or hurt for Robin to tell Beckham he's thinking of sending him down, a last ditch chance to get him to concentrate, adjust and get some f***ing hits.

Or if that simply is not done in sports and you merely send a guy down when he's s***ty enough. That a final warning of sorts is simply not condoned.

He's got to know what's up.

 

I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that he's so bad. In the minors and in his rookie season we thought he was going to be a special player. Where did it go?

[TaylorStSox]

The only real dramatic change would be sending Beckham down.

 

Stewart's surely on his way out soon.

 

I guess if you call moving Morel down and Ramirez to the 2 spot a big change...not really.

I don't know. I'd probably wait until May, at least, to make any changes. Or, I might wait until they have a losing record.

 

In reality this isn't a good team and there is nothing anybody can do about it. There's no sense in getting all Jerry Manuel about it. This year is about finding some talent to salvage and try to build a good baseball team around. I hope you have some patience. You're gonna need it.

[caulfield12]

I don't know. I'd probably wait until May, at least, to make any changes. Or, I might wait until they have a losing record.

 

In reality this isn't a good team and there is nothing anybody can do about it. There's no sense in getting all Jerry Manuel about it. This year is about finding some talent to salvage and try to build a good baseball team around. I hope you have some patience. You're gonna need it.

 

 

And it's just not there.

 

Reading the minor league box scores everyday, they're going to be cosmetic changes, but no real impact bats.

 

Maybe Kuhn will get a chance at 2nd or 3rd, but he's never going to be an All-Star caliber player.

 

Mitchell in Birmingham is about the only hitter to get excited about (in AA/AAA), and quite a few have given up on him already. Saladino, perhaps, is the other...that can fill in that 3B/2B gap.

 

Beckham is playing so poorly that it seems impossible that he's going to fight his way through it at the major league level.

 

And maybe Phegley as a catcher, but he and Tyler are both RH bats.

 

 

Switching Mitchell for DeAza is probably more of a cosmetic change as well...it will take a long time before Mitchell's a fully-refined baseball player, and, realistically, it might never happen.

Edited April 17, 2012 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

‘‘It was a tough night,’’ Santiago said. ‘‘That one pitch maybe changes the inning. I kind of walked off — ­ I don’t walk off unless I think it’s a strike. Then I kind of left one [a fastball] up and he got a hold of it. I have to make better pitches.’’

 

With his back to the wall, De Aza said he ‘‘jumped too early and took my eye off the ball.’’

 

The Sox are rolling the dice with three rookie relievers — Santiago, Addison Reed and Nate Jones —­ and Stewart, who is barely out of rookie school.

 

With a 2.42 ERA and a .218 batting average against going into Monday’s game, the pen had shown no early signs of suffering because of its youth. Santiago, who viewed the ‘‘K zone’’ on television replays and saw that two of the balls called by Barrett were strikes, said he knows that comes to the territory.

 

‘‘Just learn from it,’’ Santiago said. ‘‘If the umpire misses a call or what, just go back and focus and make a better pitch. Just go out there tomorrow and be ready to go.’’

 

‘‘It’s not the easiest job,’’ Ventura said. ‘‘I have confidence in taking him right back out there and letting him do it tomorrow night.’’ Ventura, Cooper and bullpen coach Juan Nieves knew there would be days like these with a young bullpen.

 

‘‘A year from now we’ll know who to count on and who not to count on,’’ Nieves said. ‘‘There was a concern [about having so many rookies], but we embraced it with open arms.’’

 

Sun-Times.com/sports

 

Further signs that this year is being looked at internally as "a development/assessment" year.

[JoshPR]

Can I throw last nights ump under the bus too? He basically influenced the game

[JoshPR]

Santiago has the closer mentality, he attacks hitters comes right after them, that might have cost him, sometimes he's over aggressive but can't blame him tho

[Big Hurtin]

We are surely going to hear strong pleas to be patient and not to panic. However, given last year's disaster with Rios, Dunn, Beckham and Morel, you have to wonder how long this team can keep running those guys out there. What possible excuse and justification could they offer for not making some changes.

 

If they keep playing those guys, people will stop coming to the ballpark.

[cabiness42]

Lillibridge can't hit RHP. For some reason

 

In 2011, Lilli had a .757 OPS vs RHP in 92 AB. It's not a huge sample size, but I think it at least earns him a shot to see if he can sustain it.

[Balta1701]

Said the whole offseason that this year was about "Development". Developing these guys, except maybe in Beckham's case, means at bats and dealing with the struggles. Play the guys and stop complaining.

[Balta1701]

If they keep playing those guys, people will stop coming to the ballpark.

No one anywhere should care about this.

[LittleHurt05]

No one anywhere should care about this.

 

The people who are signing Dunn & Rios's checks care about that.

[Balta1701]

The people who are signing Dunn & Rios's checks care about that.

No, they shouldn't be caring about that. Really.

 

The only way this team is going to put butts in the seats is to get back to winning ballgames. If that means playing kids and dealing with struggles, or playing failing players because they're highly paid, so be it. Get everything out of the assets you have. If they snap together and pull off something fine...if not, then you've done a key step in rebuilding.

[hawksox13]

First things first.

 

Beckham should be sent down and let Lilly play second for a month.

And Zach must be sent down.

 

No time to panic on DeAza or Morel yet.

I would drop Dunn to seventh and leave him there the rest of the year as well.

The man is finished. One homer, three ribbies? That's about right.

 

No time to panic on Morel yet? He wasn't major league worthy last year(minus a fluke month and a half stretch where he was actually semi-productive) and he's not this year either. He never will be because he's not a major league talent. He's just filler on a team that is at best an 82-83 win team. No panic though.

 

I think the 5-2 start clouded our vision as Sox fans. This team does not have the talent to compete with Texas, New York, Detroit, Los Angeles, or Tampa Bay. Detroit is going to run away with the Central by 10+ games. If everything goe right this season the Sox can probably be the seventh best team in the American League and maybe in the top 15 in all of baseball. That's the absolute ceiling for this team. It's going to be a long, frustrating season. Last night was the first of many doses of reality that we'll receive this season.

[LittleHurt05]

No, they shouldn't be caring about that. Really.

 

The only way this team is going to put butts in the seats is to get back to winning ballgames. If that means playing kids and dealing with struggles, or playing failing players because they're highly paid, so be it. Get everything out of the assets you have. If they snap together and pull off something fine...if not, then you've done a key step in rebuilding.

 

Yeah, I get your point, kinda similar to what is going down on the North side of town as well. It's just that the less revenue that comes in only hinders the rebuilding process, but what can you do?

[Balta1701]

Yeah, I get your point, kinda similar to what is going down on the North side of town as well. It's just that the less revenue that comes in only hinders the rebuilding process, but what can you do?

The amazing thing about the modern MLB is...the "Less revenue" from the gate shouldn't really matter from here on out. TV revenues and revenue sharing dollars are absolutely exploding. The gate is becoming a smaller and smaller slice of most team's revenues.