The Beckham Dilemma

[macsandz]

As much as I like Gordon, he has no business stepping into a major league baseball batter's box this season. It's clear to even the average eye that he has little to no chance to make an impact as a hitter and the roster already has enough of those in this flacid lienup. What he does bring is impact defense, which is great but even stellar defense cannot make up for the automatic out. Not on this team. Not right now.

 

The question becomes can he recover? It's clear that he needs to work on mechanics, approach, everything and that cannot happen on the MLB roster in MLB games. The answer is to send him down to AAA for a few months to right himself. He has the options and he needs this if there is any chance to salvage his career. However, I don't think this will happen anytime soon, if ever. It's just not very Sox-like to make a move like this and especially so early in the Ventura era. But this needs to happen soon, IMO. An EscoBridge platoon could serviceably handle the position and instantly improve the lineup.

 

Beckham was called up too early in his development to begin with and my fear is that he's sent down to recover too late.

[elrockinMT]

As much as I like Gordon, he has no business stepping into a major league baseball batter's box this season. It's clear to even the average eye that he has little to no chance to make an impact as a hitter and the roster already has enough of those in this flacid lienup. What he does bring is impact defense, which is great but even stellar defense cannot make up for the automatic out. Not on this team. Not right now.

 

The question becomes can he recover? It's clear that he needs to work on mechanics, approach, everything and that cannot happen on the MLB roster in MLB games. The answer is to send him down to AAA for a few months to right himself. He has the options and he needs this if there is any chance to salvage his career. However, I don't think this will happen anytime soon, if ever. It's just not very Sox-like to make a move like this and especially so early in the Ventura era. But this needs to happen soon, IMO. An EscoBridge platoon could serviceably handle the position and instantly improve the lineup.

 

Beckham was called up too early in his development to begin with and my fear is that he's sent down to recover too late.

 

 

I disagree. That is why they have a major league hitting coach and they go over things before games. We are just 8-9 games into the season and already throwing guys out the door

Edited April 17, 2012 by elrockinMT

[LVSoxFan]

It's not that Gordon's being judged on 9 games.

 

He's been in steady decline since his first season.

 

Some stats:

 

2009 BA: .270

2011 BA: .230

 

Now check this out:

 

2009 SOs: 65

2010 SOs: 92

2011 SOs: 111

 

So while his batting average dropped nearly 40 points in three seasons, his SO average went up almost 50% the second year, and almost double his 2009 total last year. That's going backwards.

 

What's weird though is he batted .270 in Spring Training this year.

[southsider2k5]

Having all new staff is key here. It is like trading him to another team. You have to give him more than 30ish ABs to see if this group can get through to him.

[justBLAZE]

Do we really need two Gordon Beckham threads, one Beckham/Rios/Dunn/Morel thread and Offensive Shotcomings (Rios/Dunn/Beckham/Morel) thread? Come on!

[greg775]

Do we really need two Gordon Beckham threads, one Beckham/Rios/Dunn/Morel thread and Offensive Shotcomings (Rios/Dunn/Beckham/Morel) thread? Come on!

 

Why not?

He's a hot topic. Thread starters get shredded around here.

[RockRaines]

His "new" swing is terrible. His high finish aiming the LF stands is moronic.

[JohnCangelosi]

Why not?

He's a hot topic. Thread starters get shredded around here.

+1

 

There is too much b****ing on this board to topic starters.

[LVSoxFan]

I think Gordo can have his own thread because this once future-of-the-White-Sox player is a different case than Morel, who nobody was ever that excited by, and Rios/Dunn, who are veterans.

 

Even Hawk and Stone are talking his swing in the booth so obviously everybody's aware of it.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I liked his spring too because he was hitting doubles like the Beckham we once knew. He is destined for Charlotte but when? He has been in the lineup just about every day. I think Robin likes the defense and pitching so far and will wait on the hitting.

[Thad Bosley]

I can't help but wonder if all of that muscle he put on a couple of years ago has somehow become part of the problem, whether contributing to the longer swing and/or possibly slowing his ability to get the bat through the zone quickly enough to catch up to all of those fastballs that are routinely blown by him these days.

[TitoMB345]

I wish we would have traded him 2 years ago

[Princess Dye]

There's no real dilemma. Right now he has no trade value, but he handles 2b fine defensively. If he ends up having a good year, he boosts his value some and he helps us win.

 

If he doesn't, we're back where we started.

 

If anyone really believed Lilli or Escobar could instead play the position and lead us to a playoff spot, then there'd be a move to make. But I don't think anyone really believes that. Lilli's success unfortunately is a pretty small sample size and fails the in depth numbers test.

 

You could see a change at 2b maybe halfway to 3/4 through the year, but injuries aside I wouldnt expect one any sooner.

[NorthSideSox72]

Having all new staff is key here. It is like trading him to another team. You have to give him more than 30ish ABs to see if this group can get through to him.

 

Exactly. Give him a chance in what are essentially new digs. 7 or 8 games doesn't cut it.

 

I liked his spring too because he was hitting doubles like the Beckham we once knew. He is destined for Charlotte but when? He has been in the lineup just about every day. I think Robin likes the defense and pitching so far and will wait on the hitting.

 

I fear that part of the reason he was doing that in ST was, usually, velocities and pitcher quality on average are both lower in ST than in the regular season. Now that he is facing entirely major league pitchers, and ones throwing their full velocity, he just isn't making it around.

 

I am not ready to cast him off yet, and probably won't be for at least a month or two. He's got an obvious flaw with his hands as he preps the bat, always has, even though he changes it slightly now and again. I am absolutely sure the coaching staff sees this, and are trying things. Let's see if those ideas take before benching him.

 

If he's still 2011-bad or worse in June, then you start talking about flipping him with Escobar or Lillibridge.

 

[Princess Dye]

I wish we would have traded him 2 years ago

 

Not you specifically, but I get the feeling that a lot of people here HATE HATE HATE when Kenny trades younger/unproven guys...except when it's a bad one that he didn't trade. When it's Beckham. When its Brian Anderson.

 

I'm going to say the following, and I think it's a calm approach... I want us to have a mix of farmhands we keep and farmhands we trade. If there's a guy that is capable of handling 2b or 3b and is under team control for a long time, and comes with high expectations...... I'm not going to be crushed if we hold onto him.

 

It's so easy to say we should have traded Beckham in a package for Adrian Gonzalez. But (1) it would have been part of a package (2) this is a guy who was projected to be an all-star IF under team control.

 

Under that set of circumstances, a guy like that is not getting traded for a rental. It's just not happening, so there's no reason to lose sleep over it. Beckham wasn't going anywhere unless the deal was unreal for us.

 

 

Instead of regreting individual moves (constantly), we need to just look at overall what the organization's mindset is and judge that. Any team is going to have some good and bad moves, but the real test is over time how well their approach seems to have fared.

[jamesdiego]

Even Hawk and Stone are talking his swing in the booth so obviously everybody's aware of it.

 

 

Hawk says "there's not a single thing wrong with his mechanics". I'm sure if we could see Stone he would be looking at him cross eyed

 

I wish he took KW's advise at the end of last season to try to go back to his original swing and approach. Wonder if he has ol' Walk in his ear down in Georgia. I could just picture them in the laboratory working on his monkey mechanics, and this is freak show they came up with. Of course this is all joking conjecture, but it makes me wonder

 

They are not going to wait till half the season is over, this train wreck has to stop in a couple weeks. Robin must be just hoping against hope now and giving Beck's every opportunity. It will happen shortly though. There's no reason Lilli shouldn't get the first shot

[southsider2k5]

Not you specifically, but I get the feeling that a lot of people here HATE HATE HATE when Kenny trades younger/unproven guys...except when it's a bad one that he didn't trade. When it's Beckham. When its Brian Anderson.

 

I'm going to say the following, and I think it's a calm approach... I want us to have a mix of farmhands we keep and farmhands we trade. If there's a guy that is capable of handling 2b or 3b and is under team control for a long time, and comes with high expectations...... I'm not going to be crushed if we hold onto him.

 

It's so easy to say we should have traded Beckham in a package for Adrian Gonzalez. But (1) it would have been part of a package (2) this is a guy who was projected to be an all-star IF under team control.

 

Under that set of circumstances, a guy like that is not getting traded for a rental. It's just not happening, so there's no reason to lose sleep over it. Beckham wasn't going anywhere unless the deal was unreal for us.

 

 

Instead of regreting individual moves (constantly), we need to just look at overall what the organization's mindset is and judge that. Any team is going to have some good and bad moves, but the real test is over time how well their approach seems to have fared.

 

this is true for sure.

 

[LVSoxFan]

Hawk says "there's not a single thing wrong with his mechanics". I'm sure if we could see Stone he would be looking at him cross eyed

 

I wish he took KW's advise at the end of last season to try to go back to his original swing and approach. Wonder if he has ol' Walk in his ear down in Georgia. I could just picture them in the laboratory working on his monkey mechanics, and this is freak show they came up with. Of course this is all joking conjecture, but it makes me wonder

 

They are not going to wait till half the season is over, this train wreck has to stop in a couple weeks. Robin must be just hoping against hope now and giving Beck's every opportunity. It will happen shortly though. There's no reason Lilli shouldn't get the first shot

 

 

LOL! I heard that too--but I had forgotten that was the conversation. Or lack of it. I heard Hawk say that, I stopped in my tracks, and all you heard from Stone was dead silence.

 

What a stupid thing to say. He needs to go.

Edited April 17, 2012 by LVSoxFan

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

He's not even Bacon anymore

[JoshPR]

Maybe he really wasn't that good to begin with

[black jack]

Maybe he really wasn't that good to begin with

 

 

This is the truth.

He had a couple good months three years ago!

Suddenly he was the future "face" of the franchise and "untouchable"!

He looks worse then ever.

This guy's bat is pure hamburgers.

Not to mention he's my pick to click everyday because I think he's due.

The guy's costing me!

 

 

SEND HIM DOWN!

Edited April 17, 2012 by black jack

[pcullotta]

It's really easy to compare him to Brian Anderson at this point. BA got to 862 plate appearances with the Sox before everyone realized he was never going to hit. Beckham is already up to 1,514. That's hard for me to believe but he's gone up to the plate 1,514 times and still looks lost. He's not just going to figure it out. He's a bad hitter. That's about it.

[Balta1701]

It's really easy to compare him to Brian Anderson at this point. BA got to 862 plate appearances with the Sox before everyone realized he was never going to hit. Beckham is already up to 1,514. That's hard for me to believe but he's gone up to the plate 1,514 times and still looks lost. He's not just going to figure it out. He's a bad hitter. That's about it.

Jose Bautista had 2038 PA's over 5 years and put up a .730 OPS during that time before becoming a monster, and that was with a lot more time on the bench/time to work with hitting coaches.

 

Alex Gordon had 1642 PA's over 4 years, including a couple injury shortened stints and plenty of time in the minors, before snapping out and putting up a >.800 OPS last year (with a .733 OPS during those first 4 years too).

 

This does happen. Gordon Beckham is a 25 year old. If he were an MLB rookie right now...he wouldn't be behind schedule

[LVSoxFan]

What exactly is he not doing now that he was doing when he was successful? The thing I hear repeatedly is "long swing."

[fathom]

What exactly is he not doing now that he was doing when he was successful? The thing I hear repeatedly is "long swing."

 

I remember thinking his swing looked a little like Gary Sheffield's when he first played for the Sox in spring training. Last night, I don't know who that was at the plate.