Texsox Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I am trying to keep pitchers into the discussion. Taking 150 games for a starter, can they have 15 bad games? 30? For a starting pitcher 3 outings where they are out by the fourth? Six? Clearly Dunn surpassed any number last season, but what are fair expectations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Tex @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 06:50 PM) I am trying to keep pitchers into the discussion. Taking 150 games for a starter, can they have 15 bad games? 30? For a starting pitcher 3 outings where they are out by the fourth? Six? Clearly Dunn surpassed any number last season, but what are fair expectations? If your name is Juan Pierre ... two bad games make you a failure. Edited April 17, 2012 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 03:13 PM) If your name is Juan Pierre ... two bad games make you a failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 02:13 PM) If your name is Juan Pierre ... two bad games make you a failure. Apparently 1,290 at bats of a .656 OPS was not enough, either. The precipitous decline in base-running and fielding abilities apparently also mattered not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 02:36 PM) Apparently 1,290 at bats of a .656 OPS was not enough, either. The precipitous decline in base-running and fielding abilities apparently also mattered not. I still don't understand how OPS is a particularly relevant statistic for a lead-off hitter who doesn't hit home runs. Wouldn't Runs Created be more relevant? Anyway, I wouldn't argue that Pierre was in decline, but OPS seems like exactly the wrong metric to use to describe his output - at any point in his career. Edited April 17, 2012 by Greg Hibbard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black jack Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 IMO- the number of bad games aren't as important as the number of bad games in a row. You can have a bad day at the plate every odd day if you're killing it the even ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 What's their job on a team? If a guy is getting paid $25 million to carry an offense/pitching staff on a contending team, there's not a lot of leeway, the guy better be Halladaying it. If a guy is a 25 year old on a rebuilding team, then my answer is completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goober Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 7 and a half Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 04:00 PM) What's their job on a team? If a guy is getting paid $25 million to carry an offense/pitching staff on a contending team, there's not a lot of leeway, the guy better be Halladaying it. If a guy is a 25 year old on a rebuilding team, then my answer is completely different. Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 By nature, to suck as a hitter, you have to fail more than 80% of the time, so... I'd say if there are defensive deficiencies included, the worst player would fail one way or another at least 82-85% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 04:00 PM) What's their job on a team? If a guy is getting paid $25 million to carry an offense/pitching staff on a contending team, there's not a lot of leeway, the guy better be Halladaying it. If a guy is a 25 year old on a rebuilding team, then my answer is completely different. Of course but wouldn't "bad day" be relative for each of those players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 QUOTE (Tex @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 06:57 PM) Of course but wouldn't "bad day" be relative for each of those players? 0/5 with 4ks is pretty much the same no matter how much you're getting paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 07:03 PM) 0/5 with 4ks is pretty much the same no matter how much you're getting paid. But the difference between the expectation and that is different. The 25 mil franchise player has a different expectation than the utility player, as you rightfully pointed out. So while we would consider .250 a solid season for a player developing, we wouldn't find that acceptable for the $25mil player. In other words a "bad day" for Konerko should be better than a bad day for (insert league min development project player). At some point yes, it's a bad day for either one. 1-4 leaving three runners stranded may be a bad day for Pujols, but an acceptable day for (fill in here) is my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 03:50 PM) I still don't understand how OPS is a particularly relevant statistic for a lead-off hitter who doesn't hit home runs. Wouldn't Runs Created be more relevant? Anyway, I wouldn't argue that Pierre was in decline, but OPS seems like exactly the wrong metric to use to describe his output - at any point in his career. He never got on base enough for a leadoff hitter. Add on the fact that he hit almost nothing but singles...well you have yourself a crappy offensive player. Edited April 18, 2012 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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