Marty34 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I've come to the conclusion that Rios is a better CF'er than De Aza, they should switch positions. Also Rios should be moved to the second spot in the order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 07:23 PM) I've come to the conclusion that Rios is a better CF'er than De Aza, they should switch positions. Also Rios should be moved to the second spot in the order. I think he actually is more comfortable in right...and if that is the case, the difference between De Aza in center and Rios in center is probably nowhere near that of Rios hitting and Rios not hitting. I'd prefer to keep him where he's at for now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I read the thread title and I thought it was about waiving/trading him. Don't mess with Rios' fragile psyche by changing his position now that he's comfortable and hitting in RF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 From your keyboard to KW's ears/eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 07:36 PM) I think he actually is more comfortable in right...and if that is the case, the difference between De Aza in center and Rios in center is probably nowhere near that of Rios hitting and Rios not hitting. I'd prefer to keep him where he's at for now... I understand your point which definitely is a reason for keeping him in center. I'm really close to labeling De Aza a liability in center though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 08:26 PM) I understand your point which definitely is a reason for keeping him in center. I'm really close to labeling De Aza a liability in center though. He may be or it may be a bad stretch. He was pretty good with the glove last year, but looks shaky at best this year. Rios was a liability in CF last year himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 08:31 PM) He may be or it may be a bad stretch. He was pretty good with the glove last year, but looks shaky at best this year. Rios was a liability in CF last year himself. I disagree that De Aza was pretty good in center last year and this year he has been pretty bad so far. He has to play deep because he can't go back on a ball which is something CF'ers have to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 08:44 PM) I disagree that De Aza was pretty good in center last year and this year he has been pretty bad so far. He has to play deep because he can't go back on a ball which is something CF'ers have to do. Yet you want Rios in CF. Did you not see his body of work in CF last year? His routes were some of the worst of all time. They both seem to have problems catching the ball at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 08:59 PM) Yet you want Rios in CF. Did you not see his body of work in CF last year? His routes were some of the worst of all time. They both seem to have problems catching the ball at times. Rios is a target because of his offensive woes and contract, however he is a better defensive CF'er than De Aza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 20, 2012 -> 12:23 AM) I've come to the conclusion that Rios is a better CF'er than De Aza, they should switch positions. Also Rios should be moved to the second spot in the order. Interesting take on things Marty, but why do you think that? What do you see now with Rios that wasn't there last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 20, 2012 -> 02:06 AM) Rios is a target because of his offensive woes and contract, however he is a better defensive CF'er than De Aza. OK I can agree with the offense part but what about the D? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 10:06 PM) Rios is a target because of his offensive woes and contract, however he is a better defensive CF'er than De Aza. What if his recent offensive success is tied to his comfort and happiness in RF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 09:35 PM) Interesting take on things Marty, but why do you think that? What do you see now with Rios that wasn't there last year? just a hunch. Rios is kind of a guy without a position in the order, so why not try him in the 2-hole? One thing it would do is get him out of a lot og RBI situations which I think would be a good thing. Also gets a guy who can score from 1st on a double hitting in front of Konerko/A.J. These same arguments can be made for Ramirez, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Rios was horrible in CF last year. He was much better in 2010, but you could go back and find at least 40-50 mistakes (mental/physical) that he made playing center. Maybe more than that. Sometimes, it felt like it was 2-3 per game for long stretches. As someone mentioned, Rios hitting well in RF and comfortable is worth much more than any possible defensive upgrade (which the majority of posters on this site would disagree with after watching the 2011 season transpire) to be gained from flipping them around again. Then you also are going to be messing around with Viciedo (for the 3rd or 4th time) moving him from LF back to RF. If you want to do that the 2nd half the season, after the All-Star Break, fine. Right now, it's way too early to be micromanaging on a game by game basis. (Yes, I realize I made a post after Tuesday's game proposing 9 changes, but the first 12 games have made it pretty clear that we're going to be in that no man's land of 75-85 wins but maybe only a 10-15% of legitimately competing for the 2nd wild card spot). If anything, the Orioles starting out well just shows how much competition there will be in the AL. You have all five AL East teams, the Rangers, Angels and Tigers to fight off. The odds are stacked against that happening, and with our projected low attendance, we're certainly not going to be taking on any additional payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 08:52 PM) just a hunch. Rios is kind of a guy without a position in the order, so why not try him in the 2-hole? One thing it would do is get him out of a lot og RBI situations which I think would be a good thing. Also gets a guy who can score from 1st on a double hitting in front of Konerko/A.J. These same arguments can be made for Ramirez, btw. Either one would be okay, as long as it's not Morel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (knightni @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 09:51 PM) What if his recent offensive success is tied to his comfort and happiness in RF? It may be, but what if it's not? If you're going to play Rios and De Aza, Rios should be in CF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 10:55 PM) It may be, but what if it's not? If you're going to play Rios and De Aza, Rios should be in CF. If you move Rios to CF, then you have to shuffle the entire outfield. De Aza is not a good right fielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Leave the defense as it is. I am not opposed to moving Rios up to 2 in the order though. That spot may just be cursed though -- bring back the Gooch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 09:36 PM) OK I can agree with the offense part but what about the D? I'm fairly convinced that De Aza can't play CF. The routes he's taken on some of the balls this year have been wow-bad and he doesn't have the pure speed to make up for it. Yes, Rios had a rough year last year, but in my view he's a far better option in center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 08:55 PM) It may be, but what if it's not? If you're going to play Rios and De Aza, Rios should be in CF. Based on what? 12 games and part of last season for DeAza versus almost a full season there for Rios in 2011? Rios was clearly uncomfortable playing that position, and you'd have to think some of the boo-birds for his defensive efforts/apathy/non-chalantness bled over into his offensive game. I mean, everyone gets it. It would be great if Alex was putting up his current offensive numbers (consistently) and playing an above-average major league CF. That would make it MUCH easier to unload him at some point. But clearly KW and RV don't agree with that. And with our offense struggling to score runs, we don't have the luxury of taking DeAza's bat out of the line-up and playing this decade's equivalent of Brian Anderson, Jordan Danks, in CF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (knightni @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 09:57 PM) If you move Rios to CF, then you have to shuffle the entire outfield. De Aza is not a good right fielder. He hurts you less in center than in right though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 09:06 PM) I'm fairly convinced that De Aza can't play CF. The routes he's taken on some of the balls this year have been wow-bad and he doesn't have the pure speed to make up for it. Yes, Rios had a rough year last year, but in my view he's a far better option in center. Part of this is related to the swirling winds and weather conditions. If he's playing the same way when the weather heats up in May and June, maybe then you might make a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 09:07 PM) He hurts you less in center than in right though. Not necessarily, because every ball hit into the RF corner by an average speed runner ends up a triple because of DeAza's weak arm. You'll have runners tagging up and advancing to 2nd, or 2nd to 3rd on a lot of balls into RF. It's easier to cover up his arm in LF or CF rather than right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 10:09 PM) Not necessarily, because every ball hit into the RF corner by an average speed runner ends up a triple because of DeAza's weak arm. You'll have runners tagging up and advancing to 2nd, or 2nd to 3rd on a lot of balls into RF. It's easier to cover up his arm in LF or CF rather than right. Neither De Aza or Rios can throw worth a damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Rios way more comfortable in RF, started hitting too, why would you wanna mess with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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