Who should be the closer?

[caulfield12]

 

 

Santiago

 

PROs: Ventura really seems to really like this kid, compares him to John Franco, likes his confidence/calm/poise/moxie, has a vast repertoire of pitches from his time as a starter, throwing harder than he ever did as a starter, consistently at 94-95 MPH with the fastball, works quickly, doesn't seem to be too affected by previous results

 

CONS: Fastball is too straight, not enough confident to go to his offspeed stuff in big situations (or AJ/Cooper are not calling it), left-handed closers are not the norm, has already given up 3 homers and multiple hard hit balls, would be better off continuing to progress as a starter in the minors as he continues to hone all of his secondary pitches, don't want him to end up in the same situation as Chris Sale, where he'll have a limited number of innings he can go as a starter (potentially) in 2013

 

Has 343 total minor league innings pitched, 133 last year but only threw 61 in 2010 and 58 in 2009. On the other hand, he would probably go to the head of the class of Sox minor league starting prospects, because of his fastball velocity and repertoire and his left-handedness. Other than Molina, and maybe Castro and Axelrod, we don't have many pitchers in the minors that could be projected as having successful careers as major league starters.

 

 

 

Addison Reed

http://baseballprospectnation.com/2011/12/...dison-reed-rhp/

 

PROS: Experience as a closer, pedigree, groomed by the Sox and expected to be the closer in 2012 or at least 2013, has the perfect two pitch combination with the fastball and slider for work as the stopper, very good control throughout the minor leagues

 

CONS: Ventura seems to prefer having Reed and Jesse Crain available to use whenever he wants depending on match-ups, anywhere from the 6th-8th innings, we haven't yet really seen the explosive (95-97 MPH) velocity, as Addison has mostly been around 93 and 94 in his time with the Sox in April, has looked very good at times, but not quite sharp or dominant enough to say "he's definitely the closer"

 

 

 

Nathan Jones

Wildcard, might just as easily be in the minor leagues again in 2 months as the Sox closer, has shown the most explosive fastball of anyone in the bullpen, but also has something of an unorthodox delivery (short arms it a bit) which makes the ball harder to pick up but also has been part of the reason for his command/control issues throughout the minors, has added quality to his offspeed pitches from the time he was originally drafted, largely as a result of his time as a starter in our system, CONTROL CONTROL CONTROL, relative lack of experience and polish as a closer/late inning reliever compared to Reed, who came from college, as opposed to Jones, who was and still is to an extent a very raw and still developing high school prospect

[caulfield12]

PLEASE DELETE, DOUBLE POST/THREAD

[JoshPR]

Santiago, not sold on jones being able to throw strikes consistently, nice arm tho

[flavum]

I still think it should have been Reed from Day 1, but I'm not complaining about Santiago. I'm just glad it wasn't Thornton.

[caulfield12]

Haha, I knew you would defend Santiago and Rios, siempre!

 

Well, yeah, Jones isn't close to being a realistic option right now (Crain would be more likely), but it was just a projection based on raw talent and ability, and it's going off only a few appearances in mostly non-pressure situations or mop-up work.

 

 

 

I still think it should have been Reed from Day 1, but I'm not complaining about Santiago. I'm just glad it wasn't Thornton.

 

That closing experience really shook Matt and he didn't fully recover until the second half of the season. He's super-expensive for a non-contending team to carry on the roster, but, the more one thinks about it, you can cover up his salary if you build a youthful/inexpensive pen all around him. We've already shed Frasor, we might be able to get something decent back for Crain, we can save money on Ohman in 2013 using another minor leaguer...my feeling was always that we should auction Thornton off to the highest bidder, but if Reed and Jones can both be legit, there's the possibility of competing both this year and next, that changes the calculus of decision-making around a bit.

 

It all just depends on where we are in relationship to the 2 wild card spots in June/July and how desperately other teams are willing to shed good prospects for Crain/Thornton.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2012 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Reed will be eventually. How soon? Who knows.

[Marty34]

If/when Jones progresses to the point that he can be a 7th/8th inning guy, move Reed to closer. If Santiago fails before that point, move Thornton to closer as much as I'm lukewarm on that idea.

[maxjusttyped]

I still think it should have been Reed from Day 1, but I'm not complaining about Santiago. I'm just glad it wasn't Thornton.

Pretty much this. Not because I don't trust Thornton in the closer role, I do, it's just I like the fact of having your best reliever be available for high leverage situations that occur at any point throughout the game.

[SoxFan1]

Going back to ST even, I wanted Reed as the closer, with both Santiago and Stewart in AAA getting regular starts.

 

Reed closes, Thornton/Crain your 7th/8th inning guys depending on matchups, Ohman the LOOGY, Jones as a situational righty or 6th inning guy if necessary, and Infante/Axelrod used intermittently and as long men.

[iamshack]

Personally, I don't really care. What we should all care about, is who Robin uses in the high-leverage situations. Most likely, that s going to be Thornton/Crain/Reed, and that is fine by me. Hopefully AJ will figure out a different pitch that Santiago can get over to righthanders other than the fastball, otherwise, Santiago will not last long as the closer.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Ventura or AJ have 0 confidence in Santiago's off speed stuff. I don't get it.

[cabiness42]

I don't want anybody to be the closer. I want Santiago pitching in the highest-leverage situation vs LH batters and Crain pitching in the highest-leverage situation vs RH batters and I want Thornton pitching in the second highest-leverage situation in both cases.

[Balta1701]

I don't want anybody to be the closer. I want Santiago pitching in the highest-leverage situation vs LH batters and Crain pitching in the highest-leverage situation vs RH batters and I want Thornton pitching in the second highest-leverage situation in both cases.

With every young Closer we've had, AJ has tried to make them use the fastball to set people up and then saved the offspeed stuff to put them away. If the kid struggles to locate the fastball, AJ tends to keep calling for it. Santos and Jenks got that same treatment, even though both of them could use their great offspeed pitches (Slider, Curve) to get strikes earlier in the count if it was called for.

 

I'm sure I'm forgetting some, but the only bullpen guy who immediately comes to mind as using something offspeed early in the count when AJ is behind the plate is Crain with that slider. Everybody else, I seem to recall AJ focusing on fastball first.

[SoxFan1]

With every young Closer we've had, AJ has tried to make them use the fastball to set people up and then saved the offspeed stuff to put them away. If the kid struggles to locate the fastball, AJ tends to keep calling for it. Santos and Jenks got that same treatment, even though both of them could use their great offspeed pitches (Slider, Curve) to get strikes earlier in the count if it was called for.

 

I'm sure I'm forgetting some, but the only bullpen guy who immediately comes to mind as using something offspeed early in the count when AJ is behind the plate is Crain with that slider. Everybody else, I seem to recall AJ focusing on fastball first.

Jenks and Santos both had more overpowering fastballs than Santiago though, so perhaps AJ should adjust.

[chw42]

Reed is the closer of the future. Santiago should be pitching middle or long relief.

[caulfield12]

Jenks and Santos both had more overpowering fastballs than Santiago though, so perhaps AJ should adjust.

 

Which Jenks?

 

2005-2008, sure. His last couple of seasons with the Sox, not so much.

 

All three of those guys have/had pretty straight fastballs, although I'll agree that Santos and Jenks were probably more explosive and had a BIT more movement.

[SoxFan1]

Which Jenks?

 

2005-2008, sure. His last couple of seasons with the Sox, not so much.

 

All three of those guys have/had pretty straight fastballs, although I'll agree that Santos and Jenks were probably more explosive and had a BIT more movement.

Yeah, and if you recall, the Jenks of the last few seasons hasn't been that good. See how that all comes together to make sense?

[Soxfest]

Addison Reed will be closer by years end and keep job for good.

[ptatc]

I don't want anybody to be the closer. I want Santiago pitching in the highest-leverage situation vs LH batters and Crain pitching in the highest-leverage situation vs RH batters and I want Thornton pitching in the second highest-leverage situation in both cases.

That would never work. Players need to know their roles to into their routine. It may work for a short time but would not work over a long period of time.

[justBLAZE]

Found this blurp when browing my fantasy baseball leagues:

 

Santiago, who picked up the save against the Mariners on Sunday, said he has had trouble gripping his screwball on major-league baseballs, the Chicago Sun-Times reports.

 

Thoughts?

[Balta1701]

Found this blurp when browing my fantasy baseball leagues:

 

Santiago, who picked up the save against the Mariners on Sunday, said he has had trouble gripping his screwball on major-league baseballs, the Chicago Sun-Times reports.

 

Thoughts?

That makes sense, he has seemed to struggle with the control on that pitch, and MLB umps put a lot more care into prepping balls than minor league ones.

[southsider2k5]

Found this blurp when browing my fantasy baseball leagues:

 

Santiago, who picked up the save against the Mariners on Sunday, said he has had trouble gripping his screwball on major-league baseballs, the Chicago Sun-Times reports.

 

Thoughts?

 

It explains why he is throwing the fastball so much. It also might mean his days are numbered, not only as closer, but in Chicago.

[GreenSox]

Santiago's fine as closer. Our closer, and most closers, enter the game with no one on. Heck you can give up 2 hits and still close most games with that advantage. You don't need your best reliever as closer. And you certainly don't need your best strikeout reliever as closer.

I figure Santiago back to the rotation at some point anyway.

[Jerksticks]

With every young Closer we've had, AJ has tried to make them use the fastball to set people up and then saved the offspeed stuff to put them away. If the kid struggles to locate the fastball, AJ tends to keep calling for it. Santos and Jenks got that same treatment, even though both of them could use their great offspeed pitches (Slider, Curve) to get strikes earlier in the count if it was called for.

 

I'm sure I'm forgetting some, but the only bullpen guy who immediately comes to mind as using something offspeed early in the count when AJ is behind the plate is Crain with that slider. Everybody else, I seem to recall AJ focusing on fastball first.

 

 

I think with an unproven kid on the mound you have to call for fastballs. Make the team hit it through gaps to beat you. I still hate the idea of a lefty closer though.

[Balta1701]

I think with an unproven kid on the mound you have to call for fastballs. Make the team hit it through gaps to beat you. I still hate the idea of a lefty closer though.

That strikes me as a terrible concept. If you're just calling for fastballs, no matter how good the fastball is, you're going to get beat. You have to mix the pitches up, even if he can't throw all of them for strikes, so that the hitter can't just sit on everything.