Marty34 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 23, 2012 -> 08:42 AM) My worry on all of those guys is still the same...that if the team is going to decide they want to compete, they can't tolerate these guys slumping for all that much longer, and that means Fukudome and Lillibridge are going to start putting them on the bench. But...putting them on the bench is the worst thing we can do to develop them. That's the big catch-22 here. We're going to have to lose games we could be winning to turn those guys into anything useful...but if we don't do that, then they're going to need to be replaced next season. Well, you could lose games and these guys still not develop. Besides, none of, Beckham, Morel, or Viciedo, are franchise prospects. Viciedo is a slugging LF'er, when the Sox get their CF'er, De Aza will be shifted over to left as part of a platoon anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 23, 2012 -> 12:15 PM) Well, you could lose games and these guys still not develop. Besides, none of, Beckham, Morel, or Viciedo, are franchise prospects. Viciedo is a slugging LF'er, when the Sox get their CF'er, De Aza will be shifted over to left as part of a platoon anyway. Very true. Which is why I would like to have Rios and Dunn's contracts cleared going into next offseason if it's at all possible, because then the team would have more than enough payroll flexibility to start looking at replacing those failures with all-stars. If Rios and Dunn were to be removable without the Sox eating the money, then the Sox could be looking at spending some of that money for a legit upgrade at one of those spots. Replacing Brent Morel with David Wright, for example, would be a plausible move the Sox could make. And...the only way you're honestly going to know that those moves are necessary is if you give the kid a full season and he just can't cut it. You platoon the kid, you give him 400 PA's, he might hit a roll at the end of the season and convince you to try him out for another year...again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 23, 2012 -> 11:19 AM) Very true. Which is why I would like to have Rios and Dunn's contracts cleared going into next offseason if it's at all possible, because then the team would have more than enough payroll flexibility to start looking at replacing those failures with all-stars. If Rios and Dunn were to be removable without the Sox eating the money, then the Sox could be looking at spending some of that money for a legit upgrade at one of those spots. Replacing Brent Morel with David Wright, for example, would be a plausible move the Sox could make. And...the only way you're honestly going to know that those moves are necessary is if you give the kid a full season and he just can't cut it. You platoon the kid, you give him 400 PA's, he might hit a roll at the end of the season and convince you to try him out for another year...again. I'd wet myself. Injury history or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I've thought often of David Wright on the Southside since it's all but guaranteed he moves this summer AND he'd be an instant super upgrade. The Sox have nothing to deal with, though, so it seems nearly impossible. My fantasy team is loving his rebirth this year with those shorter CITI Field walls helping his confidence. Imagine what the friendly park factors of the Cell would do for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Apr 23, 2012 -> 11:56 AM) I've thought often of David Wright on the Southside since it's all but guaranteed he moves this summer AND he'd be an instant super upgrade. The Sox have nothing to deal with, though, so it seems nearly impossible. My fantasy team is loving his rebirth this year with those shorter CITI Field walls helping his confidence. Imagine what the friendly park factors of the Cell would do for him. For those with the idea that dead contracts don't matter, that would be an instance where it matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 23, 2012 -> 12:09 PM) For those with the idea that dead contracts don't matter, that would be an instance where it matters. this is true. i'd dump rios yesterday if it meant getting wright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Apr 23, 2012 -> 12:56 PM) I've thought often of David Wright on the Southside since it's all but guaranteed he moves this summer AND he'd be an instant super upgrade. The Sox have nothing to deal with, though, so it seems nearly impossible. My fantasy team is loving his rebirth this year with those shorter CITI Field walls helping his confidence. Imagine what the friendly park factors of the Cell would do for him. Actually, with him being back on the DL, I kinda doubt he's able to be moved for much this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 23, 2012 -> 01:38 PM) Actually, with him being back on the DL, I kinda doubt he's able to be moved for much this summer. He never went on the DL...he took batting practice and hit the s*** out of the ball enough to convince them to let him play...he's hitting .439 this season... Edited April 23, 2012 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 23, 2012 -> 02:38 PM) Actually, with him being back on the DL, I kinda doubt he's able to be moved for much this summer. Since when is Wright on the DL? He fractured his right pinkie, but he is still playing quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 As soon as we're free of Rios/Dunn, we're going out and committing huge dollars again to David Wright and throwing all the "develop for the future" talk into rubbish bin? I thought the idea of rebuilding was to time the acquisition of an impact bat from outside the organization (like a Wright) with the arrival of a group of players cresting from the minors at about the same time? Who is that group? Viciedo, Morel, Beckham, Flowers/Phegley and DeAza (well, he's 28 already)? Now the success of the pitching staff is causing this ugly situation to rear itself again...where we are desperate to add one or two more pieces to the everyday line-up to compete now, but we clearly don't have those pieces in our own minor league system. Just not seeing any possibility with the attendance being what it is so far (yes, I know....attendance is now only 20-25-30% of revenues generated on a per season basis for most MLB teams and is lessening and lessening in importance compared to other revenue drivers) that JR and the Board will forget all the mistakes of the last 3-4 years and go out and make another one. Isn't the whole point to go forward in a different way, instead of going with the Mississippi Riverboat Gambler approach to assembling competitive clubs? Build with young starting pitching...build SOMEWHERE. We have to have a focus and direction and strategy with where we're going...at least we should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everafan Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I'm starting to see a lot of on field positives since Ozzie left. At one point he was a good in game manager but he didn't prepare his team like Robin seems to. Ozzie's philosophy was "they're big leaguers, if they don't know how to do it by now they never will". But obviously the work they are doing holding on runners, fielding practice, throwing to the right base and aggressiveness on the bases is paying off. Also, playing games sans freak show might have a bigger influence then I originally thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I really don't see a reason to just dump Dunn's contract if he continues playing well the rest of the way. He was the definition of consistency before last season and a strong 2012 would go a long way to prove that 2011 was a complete aberration. Furthermore, this organization is almost completely void of left-handed power. To let go of Dunn for nothing in hopes of bringing in an even more expensive free agent or have a hole that must be filled via trade seems incredibly foolish to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 This is simply incredible. It's almost like Jake Peavy is Jake Peavy and Adam Dunn is Adam Dunn and Alex Rios is . . . well you get the point. The f*** is going on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 like i've been saying. we're a good team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinningUgly85 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 I said early on in the spring that I think this team would compete and so far they have kept on track. Let's hope for more surprises to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Too early for IN or OUT thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickofypres Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Like I said in the offseason and spring training, I think this team can be very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Apr 23, 2012 -> 10:13 PM) I really don't see a reason to just dump Dunn's contract if he continues playing well the rest of the way. He was the definition of consistency before last season and a strong 2012 would go a long way to prove that 2011 was a complete aberration. Furthermore, this organization is almost completely void of left-handed power. To let go of Dunn for nothing in hopes of bringing in an even more expensive free agent or have a hole that must be filled via trade seems incredibly foolish to me. Cmon. Do u realize how bad Dunn was last year? Right now you cut your losses as soon as some team wants him. We can find some other DH. Again, that said, good job so far this year, Dunn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 23, 2012 -> 01:53 PM) I'm not even sure Elmo himself couldn't have managed this team more effectively than the last couple of years of Ozzie. If you think Ozzie is (was) bad, what do you think of Ned Yost? Even in our worst years, Ozzie had the Sox with a decent record. He's one of the best managers in Sox history if not the best IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 24, 2012 -> 01:36 AM) Cmon. Do u realize how bad Dunn was last year? Right now you cut your losses as soon as some team wants him. We can find some other DH. Again, that said, good job so far this year, Dunn. Think if the Red Sox did that with David Ortiz in 2009 or 2010, where would they be now? Many Red Sox fans were in favor of it, at that time. We would have something like Fukudome/Lillibridge/Dan Johnson/Conor Jackson as our DH. Greg, does it really matter to you how they spend their payroll? Do you think they would discount tickets 15-25% if they removed Dunn from the roster? You should be happy (for the time being) that Peavy/Dunn/Rios are producing and we're in first place. Would you really be happy with those four guys listed above, or Viciedo, or Dallas McPherson, as the DH? Or you're just operating under the automatic assumption they would invest that same amount of money into another LH hitter? And who would that be? Keep in mind, we're probably going to lose AJ after this year, we'd pretty much have ZERO LH power for 2013, except for DeAza, and we don't want him to become so homer happy at leadoff that he gets out of his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 24, 2012 -> 01:37 AM) If you think Ozzie is (was) bad, what do you think of Ned Yost? Even in our worst years, Ozzie had the Sox with a decent record. He's one of the best managers in Sox history if not the best IMO. Comparing Ozzie to Ned Yost or Terry Bevington isn't the best possible argument. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-leag...-155328751.html You prefer your managers to be involved in scenes like this which detract from the team's performance on the field? You won't ever get that with Robin Ventura. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 24, 2012 -> 02:37 AM) If you think Ozzie is (was) bad, what do you think of Ned Yost? Even in our worst years, Ozzie had the Sox with a decent record. He's one of the best managers in Sox history if not the best IMO. Ozzie was a good manager, I will admit that. But he was good for only a portion of his time with the Sox. His last 2 years or so, he was arguably a poor manager because he preferred to publicly disagree with the GM and rely on Twitter and other resources to start s***. His antics (already) in Miami show what kind of manager he is, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 24, 2012 -> 01:37 AM) If you think Ozzie is (was) bad, what do you think of Ned Yost? Even in our worst years, Ozzie had the Sox with a decent record. He's one of the best managers in Sox history if not the best IMO. just effing stop, greg. we know how you feel about ozzie and this is not the place to discuss it again. he's no longer here. get the f*** over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Apr 23, 2012 -> 11:13 PM) This is simply incredible. It's almost like Jake Peavy is Jake Peavy and Adam Dunn is Adam Dunn and Alex Rios is . . . well you get the point. The f*** is going on? So what changed from this year to last year? Hmmm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 24, 2012 -> 02:37 AM) If you think Ozzie is (was) bad, what do you think of Ned Yost? Even in our worst years, Ozzie had the Sox with a decent record. He's one of the best managers in Sox history if not the best IMO. "decent record" is all relevant. If you should be a 95 win team, and you win 87, you underperformed. I think he out performed a lot in his early years, especially in 08 and 05. The last few years? Way under where we should have been. I don't think in hindsight you can say anything but he lost the team and certain key players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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