I enjoy this team

[Reddy]

So what changed from this year to last year? Hmmm....

+1

[Wedge]

just effing stop, greg. we know how you feel about ozzie and this is not the place to discuss it again.

 

he's no longer here. get the f*** over it.

 

Name a better White Sox manager. The only candidates after World War II (hilariously, apparently the White Sox had a manager named "Pants") with tenures to compete with Guillen would be

 

LaRussa

Lamont

Jerry Manual

Al Lopez

 

So yeah, Guillen is definitely one of the best White Sox managers. If you consider the World Series and subsequent 2008 division win I think you can make a good argument that he's the best in history. At the least, he's the most accomplished.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Wedge

[Balta1701]

Name a better White Sox manager. The only candidates after World War II (hilariously, apparently the White Sox had a manager named "Pants") with tenures to compete with Guillen would be

 

LaRussa

Lamont

Jerry Manual

Al Lopez

 

So yeah, Guillen is definitely one of the best White Sox managers. If you consider the World Series and subsequent 2008 division win I think you can make a good argument that he's the best in history. At the least, he's the most accomplished.

Depends on how you're defining "Best". Tony LaRussa, for example, was a White Sox manager before being fired by an unnamed GM, and then went on to a career that will almost certainly wind up with him in the hall of fame, thanks to multiple WS rings. Joe Torre missed the playoffs for 5 years as manager of the Cardinals, but he followed that up with a fairly historic stretch of winning with another team.

 

Out of managers accomplishments with the Sox, Guillen is clearly at the top...but there's not a whole lot of competition. So how one judges "Best" depends on one's standards.

[southsider2k5]

Name a better White Sox manager. The only candidates after World War II (hilariously, apparently the White Sox had a manager named "Pants") with tenures to compete with Guillen would be

 

LaRussa

Lamont

Jerry Manual

Al Lopez

 

So yeah, Guillen is definitely one of the best White Sox managers. If you consider the World Series and subsequent 2008 division win I think you can make a good argument that he's the best in history. At the least, he's the most accomplished.

 

Historically, no you aren't going to find a better one since the black sox. But is Ozzie the best manager today? That is what matters in 2012.

[Wedge]

Historically, no you aren't going to find a better one since the black sox. But is Ozzie the best manager today? That is what matters in 2012.

 

Very true. Sometime in 2009 it became impossible for Guillen to operate as manager. Likely that was his falling out with Williams and the Peavy and Rios (and much later Dunn) aquisitions.

 

Hoping for the best with Robin. Seems like he's doing a good job so far. Maybe not the manager we deserve, but the manager we need.

[southsider2k5]

Very true. Sometime in 2009 it became impossible for Guillen to operate as manager. Likely that was his falling out with Williams and the Peavy and Rios (and much later Dunn) aquisitions.

 

Hoping for the best with Robin. Seems like he's doing a good job so far. Maybe not the manager we deserve, but the manager we need.

 

That's what I wonder today... Would Robin be any better or worse than another manager? Is having a manager who is willing to come in and not only preach, but actually teach, what is making the difference, or is there something Robin specifically is doing so far to reach guys that Ozzie seemingly lost.

 

Too bad there isn't a VORM stat

[Reddy]

That's what I wonder today... Would Robin be any better or worse than another manager? Is having a manager who is willing to come in and not only preach, but actually teach, what is making the difference, or is there something Robin specifically is doing so far to reach guys that Ozzie seemingly lost.

 

Too bad there isn't a VORM stat

 

haha love it

[everafan]

If you think Ozzie is (was) bad, what do you think of Ned Yost?

Even in our worst years, Ozzie had the Sox with a decent record.

He's one of the best managers in Sox history if not the best IMO.

 

For 2005-2008 he was a very good manager. He has declined since then. Horrible in 2011.

 

[Jack Parkman]

That's what I wonder today... Would Robin be any better or worse than another manager? Is having a manager who is willing to come in and not only preach, but actually teach, what is making the difference, or is there something Robin specifically is doing so far to reach guys that Ozzie seemingly lost.

 

Too bad there isn't a VORM stat

 

 

haha love it

No, it should be WORM.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Elgin Slim

[southsider2k5]

No, it should be WORM.

 

Even better.

[Balta1701]

One version of that stat is to look at how the team's actual results compared with the projections (factoring in personnel changes of course). Generally, the firs t5 years or so, I believe Ozzie's team did outperform the expectations, and if memory serves, they didn't do so the last 2 years.

[greg775]

just effing stop, greg. we know how you feel about ozzie and this is not the place to discuss it again.

 

he's no longer here. get the f*** over it.

 

Look. I'm commenting when I feel like it.

There has been post after post ripping Ozzie that I ignore. Once in a while I am going to respond until I get banned.

You look at all the anti Ozzie posts in threads and I have rarely commented on them until they finally piss me off, so don't tell me to get the f*** over it. Thank you.

[Steve9347]

Actually, with him being back on the DL, I kinda doubt he's able to be moved for much this summer.

Where you getting your info? He missed like 2 games and hit a jack in his return.

[Steve9347]

Look. I'm commenting when I feel like it.

There has been post after post ripping Ozzie that I ignore. Once in a while I am going to respond until I get banned.

You look at all the anti Ozzie posts in threads and I have rarely commented on them until they finally piss me off, so don't tell me to get the f*** over it. Thank you.

Ozzie was negatively impacting the team and not trying to win. There is empirical evidence of this. Why would you support him?

 

Listen, he was fun. Ozzie being Ozzie was a blast, and he was a HUGE reason the team won a World Series. Things came to pass, and he turned on your team and he turned on you, Greg. Ozzie gave up on this team so he could get out of his contract and get involved with all the fun that was a new franchise in Miami. He wasted your time, he wasted my time, and he made the White Sox look like a bunch of idiots.

 

Yes, it wasn't him alone. Dunn and Rios falling apart last year and Greg Walker also get their blame. However, Ozzie did not manage to win, and you should at least be willing to admit this, and also willing to move on and enjoy what so far has been a best-case scenario for the White Sox in 2012. Your inability to recognize this makes you the Ozzie Guillen board troll, and also makes me wonder why you don't just root for the Marlins.

[Balta1701]

Where you getting your info? He missed like 2 games and hit a jack in his return.

Yeah, so I missed that one. Thought he was gone a while.

[hogan873]

Ozzie was negatively impacting the team and not trying to win. There is empirical evidence of this. Why would you support him?

 

Listen, he was fun. Ozzie being Ozzie was a blast, and he was a HUGE reason the team won a World Series. Things came to pass, and he turned on your team and he turned on you, Greg. Ozzie gave up on this team so he could get out of his contract and get involved with all the fun that was a new franchise in Miami. He wasted your time, he wasted my time, and he made the White Sox look like a bunch of idiots.

 

Yes, it wasn't him alone. Dunn and Rios falling apart last year and Greg Walker also get their blame. However, Ozzie did not manage to win, and you should at least be willing to admit this, and also willing to move on and enjoy what so far has been a best-case scenario for the White Sox in 2012. Your inability to recognize this makes you the Ozzie Guillen board troll, and also makes me wonder why you don't just root for the Marlins.

I support this post.

[greg775]

Ozzie was negatively impacting the team and not trying to win. There is empirical evidence of this. Why would you support him?

 

Listen, he was fun. Ozzie being Ozzie was a blast, and he was a HUGE reason the team won a World Series. Things came to pass, and he turned on your team and he turned on you, Greg. Ozzie gave up on this team so he could get out of his contract and get involved with all the fun that was a new franchise in Miami. He wasted your time, he wasted my time, and he made the White Sox look like a bunch of idiots.

 

Yes, it wasn't him alone. Dunn and Rios falling apart last year and Greg Walker also get their blame. However, Ozzie did not manage to win, and you should at least be willing to admit this, and also willing to move on and enjoy what so far has been a best-case scenario for the White Sox in 2012. Your inability to recognize this makes you the Ozzie Guillen board troll, and also makes me wonder why you don't just root for the Marlins.

 

With all due respect, you are insane.

You said: "He turned on your team and he turned on you ... He wasted your time, he wasted my time, and he made the White Sox look like a bunch of idiots."

You also said: "Your inability to recognize this makes you the Ozzie Guillen board troll, and also makes me wonder why you don't just root for the Marlins."

 

1.) He didn't waste any of my time. Last year was the only year I regretted my mlb package. Our team sucked big time but we still finished close to .500 as I recall in the worst year in memory.

2.) I haven't followed Ozzie or his team at all. I did follow the problem he had with the Castro stuff.

Yeah, I'm a troll. I'm definitely a troll.

 

[chw42]

With all due respect, you are insane.

You said: "He turned on your team and he turned on you ... He wasted your time, he wasted my time, and he made the White Sox look like a bunch of idiots."

You also said: "Your inability to recognize this makes you the Ozzie Guillen board troll, and also makes me wonder why you don't just root for the Marlins."

 

1.) He didn't waste any of my time. Last year was the only year I regretted my mlb package. Our team sucked big time but we still finished close to .500 as I recall in the worst year in memory.

2.) I haven't followed Ozzie or his team at all. I did follow the problem he had with the Castro stuff.

Yeah, I'm a troll. I'm definitely a troll.

 

Oh, so he did waste something of yours...

[greg775]

Oh, so he did waste something of yours...

 

I don't just blame him.

Plenty of blame to go around.

[hogan873]

I don't just blame him.

Plenty of blame to go around.

You're right that there was plenty of blame to go around. The big three (Peavy, Rios, Dunn) were contributors to the bad season for sure. I think what most people are implying is that you don't assign enough blame to Ozzie. He quit on the team last year. He got worse as the season went on with his decisions. He publicly fought with KW, and didn't make the lineups based on what KW said and did. Sure, it's the manager's job to make the lineup, but I certainly got the impression that he was playing certain players as his way of defying his GM.

[Steve9347]

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Name a better White Sox manager. The only candidates after World War II (hilariously, apparently the White Sox had a manager named "Pants") with tenures to compete with Guillen would be

 

LaRussa

Lamont

Jerry Manual

Al Lopez

 

So yeah, Guillen is definitely one of the best White Sox managers. If you consider the World Series and subsequent 2008 division win I think you can make a good argument that he's the best in history. At the least, he's the most accomplished.

Add Paul Richards to that list and I would add Bob Lemon as being better than Ozzie. Ozzie was better than Manuel, however.

[greg775]

You're right that there was plenty of blame to go around. The big three (Peavy, Rios, Dunn) were contributors to the bad season for sure. I think what most people are implying is that you don't assign enough blame to Ozzie. He quit on the team last year. He got worse as the season went on with his decisions. He publicly fought with KW, and didn't make the lineups based on what KW said and did. Sure, it's the manager's job to make the lineup, but I certainly got the impression that he was playing certain players as his way of defying his GM.

 

 

Add Paul Richards to that list and I would add Bob Lemon as being better than Ozzie. Ozzie was better than Manuel, however.

 

1.) I assign a lot of blame to Ozzie, but actually more blame to the players.

2.) Richards and Lemon? Give me a break. Yeah, Bob Lemon was better than Ozzie "I've got a ring" Guillen.

Edited April 24, 2012 by greg775

[Balta1701]

1.) I assign a lot of blame to Ozzie, but actually more blame to the players.

Well, considering they're the ones who are gone, I'm surprised you think that so much of last year's problem was Carlos Quentin and Mark Buehrle.

[greg775]

Well, considering they're the ones who are gone, I'm surprised you think that so much of last year's problem was Carlos Quentin and Mark Buehrle.

 

Dunn, Rios, Beckham, bullpen, etc.