Red Sox @ White Sox

[oldsox]

They're wasting their time with Beckham.

I agree. For some reason, I still think he and Morel will come around, but one or both needs to go down to minors to regain confidence, and soon. I don't have any permanent suggestions, but Robin and whatshisname have to do something.

[caulfield12]

Except Jeff Manto's had two months.

 

Greg Walker how many years?

 

At a certain point, it becomes an issue of either being totally lost and lack confidence psychologically (Beckham/Morel) or just not being talented enough...to the point where no hitting coach could possibly make a difference, not even Lau, Hrniak or Rudy Jaramillo.

 

 

[Marty34]

Paul Konerko was traded for by Ron Schueler. Schueler should do the "rebuilding".

[oldsox]

And the turning point was Dunn not easily scoring in the 1st inning when Ross fumbled the ball around in LF.

 

Sigh.

 

 

Konerko hit a double...Dunn had been on 1B with a walk, he didn't look at the play in front of him and just assumed he would be held up by McEwing instead of waiting to be stopped.

 

When he realized what was going on, it was too late for him to score.

Dunn. What a jerk. No excuse for that on any level of baseball.

[Balta1701]

Paul Konerko was traded for by Ron Schueler. Schueler should do the "rebuilding".

Ron also picked his successor. Thus, you should be supporting him.

[oldsox]

He didn't score on Ross' error back in the first, 3rd base coach was waving him in while he was looking back in the field just b4 the error took place and coming to a halt at 3rd.

Did any of our announcers point out his lack of hustle/laziness?

[Dick Allen]

Did any of our announcers point out his lack of hustle/laziness?

Hawk and Stone did. At least Dunn made it 21 in a row tonight.

[caulfield12]

Paul Konerko was traded for by Ron Schueler. Schueler should do the "rebuilding".

 

YOU DESERVE THIS REBUTTAL, M-34 (courtesy of WSI)

 

First Base - Wil Cordero

Sure, you could blame this acquisition on manager Jerry Manuel. But Manuel has made it clear he wants to win --- yet Schueler hasn't run out to get any high-priced talent, has he? A willing accomplice.

 

Second Base - Steve Sax

Schueler's first big mistake. Acquired from the Yankees for three (!) pitchers (including Melido Perez) and cash. A complete bust most Sox fans have forgotten, probably for sanity's sake.

 

Third Base - Greg Norton

Well, at least we know he can't play first base. With Ventura gone we'll now find out if he can't play third base, too. Here's hoping "You're the Greatest" will prove better at his natural position. Of course pitcher is Jaime Navarro's natural position, and look what happened there.

 

Shortstop - Mike Caruso

Could be a terrific shortstop and is certainly young enough to develop into an all-star. But don't forget, Mike Caruso's biggest claim to fame is how he was acquired. He is the first major league player ever traded at the expense of a stretch run at a championship (the infamous WHITE FLAG trade). Another Schueler first.

 

Outfield - Chris Sabo

One of Schueler's low cost reclamation projects you won't hear him bragging about. A disgrace with the bat and in the field. A distraction in the clubhouse, too. He was Jaime Navarro before there was Jaime Navarro.

 

Outfield - Darren Lewis

We let Lance Johnson go for this dope?

 

Outfield -Mike Devereaux

Sucked before we got him, sucked while we had him, and has sucked ever since. Any questions?

 

Catcher - Chad Krueter (twice)

Never underestimate how many times Ron Schueler will repeat his own mistake --- as long as it's cheap and expedient. (See also Jim Abbott).

 

Designated Hitter - Cory Snyder

Acquired by the Sox just months before he developed true softball league form. What was Schueler thinking?

 

And who better to manage this collection of trash...

 

Manager - Terry Bevington

Better to keep your foot in your mouth than disgrace yourself further by uttering the next thought rattling inside your head --- a lesson never learned by Boomer.

Edited April 29, 2012 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Ron also picked his successor. Thus, you should be supporting him.

Actually Schueler wanted Danny Evans to replace him. He thought KW rubbed too many people the wrong way to be GM.

[Soxfest]

Actually Schueler wanted Danny Evans to replace him. He thought KW rubbed too many people the wrong way to be GM.

That may be the ONLY thing Schuler got right was his opinion of KW!

[caulfield12]

In summary, Marty.

 

The White Flag trade. Albert Belle. Terry Bevington. Steve Sax. Norton/Snopek. Cory Snyder. Wil Cordero.

 

 

Cordero and Belle are two of the worst human beings the White Sox ever had on their major league roster.

 

REBUILD AWAY, lol.

Edited April 29, 2012 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Except Jeff Manto's had two months.

 

Greg Walker how many years?

 

At a certain point, it becomes an issue of either being totally lost and lack confidence psychologically (Beckham/Morel) or just not being talented enough...to the point where no hitting coach could possibly make a difference, not even Lau, Hrniak or Rudy Jaramillo.

But its pretty obvious it isn't getting better. Why wait? Every time a White Sox made an out it was Greg Walker's fault. It should now be Manto. They have 10 runs their last 5 games, only 8 in regulation. Its time to make a change. He obviously isn't working out.

[Dick Allen]

He should play every day

You wouldn't say that for long. Do you see some of the crap he swings at off of RHP?

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Adam Dunn's loafing on the basepaths and Gordon Beckham's total ineptness as a hitter contributed greatly towards wasting an excellent effort by Jake Peavy.

Edited April 29, 2012 by South Side Fireworks Man

[Dick Allen]

That may be the ONLY thing Schuler got right was his opinion of KW!

Schueler was pretty good at the beginning. He picked up Raines, always seemed to find someone to do a decent job in RF from year to year, DJ, Burks, even Tartabull had a decent year. But he got ultra conservative, but he did have a division winner his final season.

[caulfield12]

But its pretty obvious it isn't getting better. Why wait? Every time a White Sox made an out it was Greg Walker's fault. It should now be Manto. They have 10 runs their last 5 games, only 8 in regulation. Its time to make a change. He obviously isn't working out.

 

 

And I suppose you also are going to argue that Don Cooper is still overrated despite the fact that we have one of the best pitching staffs in the AL?

 

That any random pitching coach could get a no-hitter out of Phil Humber?

 

Most quality starts in the AL since 2003, etc., despite playing half our home games at USCF?

Edited April 29, 2012 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

And I suppose you also are going to argue that Don Cooper is overrated despite the fact that we have one of the best pitching staffs in the AL?

 

That any random pitching coach could get a no-hitter out of Phil Humber?

Why would you say that? All I said is what the majority of Soxtalk has said for years. If guys aren't hitting its the hitting coach's fault. Its time to make a change.

 

As far as Cooper/Humber, if you're going to give Coop the credit for the perfect game, don't you have to blame him for the implosion his next outing?

[caulfield12]

Schueler was pretty good at the beginning. He picked up Raines, always seemed to find someone to do a decent job in RF from year to year, DJ, Burks, even Tartabull had a decent year. But he got ultra conservative, but he did have a division winner his final season.

 

He also has to get some of the credit for Ordonez, Carlos Lee, Ray Durham...can't remember when we drafted Rowand and Crede, although KW was director of scouting/minor leagues by then, right?

 

Drafting Buehrle where he got him so late in the draft, etc.

 

 

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Manto seems to have been successful helping Rios turn it around and he seems to have helped Dunn out so far. Beckham may be beyond help and we'll have to wait and see about Morel. Viciedo and Ramirez are notorious slow starters so I wouldn't worry about them yet. AJ is also doing better this year under Manto after regressing over the years under Walker.

 

Let's give Manto at least a good half season or more before throwing him under the bus as another failure like Greg Walker.

 

 

[Soxfest]

But its pretty obvious it isn't getting better. Why wait? Every time a White Sox made an out it was Greg Walker's fault. It should now be Manto. They have 10 runs their last 5 games, only 8 in regulation. Its time to make a change. He obviously isn't working out.

Walker was here 4 years too long............Way to early to rip Manto. I will not do it.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Soxfest

[caulfield12]

Why would you say that? All I said is what the majority of Soxtalk has said for years. If guys aren't hitting its the hitting coach's fault. Its time to make a change.

 

As far as Cooper/Humber, if you're going to give Coop the credit for the perfect game, don't you have to blame him for the implosion his next outing?

 

 

It's a game of expectations. Nobody in baseball expected anything out of Humber when we picked him up, Jenks, Santos, Loaiza, Contreras, Thornton, etc.

 

Peavy hasn't been healthy for most of his time with the White Sox, although I guess you could blame Cooper for injuring him if you want.

 

With Beckham, Dunn, Rios and Viciedo, a LOT was expected/predicted out of them. I'm willing to give Walker a pass on Morel, because I never considered him a sure-fire major league starter like some here.

 

The Walker "success" stories are Konerko, Quentin and Lillibridge, that's about it in recent years. And Paulie figured out a lot of those things on his own, through self-analysis and critical thinking in his 20's.

Edited April 29, 2012 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

He also has to get some of the credit for Ordonez, Carlos Lee, Ray Durham...can't remember when we drafted Rowand and Crede, although KW was director of scouting/minor leagues by then, right?

 

Drafting Buehrle where he got him so late in the draft, etc.

Himes drafted Durham, but Schueler definitely provided more major league ready hitters from the minor leagues, although he really got lucky with Maggs. The scout who signed Maggs showed up like 6 hours late for his workout, but Maggs stuck around. He also left him exposed in the rule 5 and no one took him. After the strike though, Schueler was a different GM. While KW has his player as his best hitter 12 years later, every year Schueler was the GM, his best player was a Larry Himes draft pick.

[Dick Allen]

It's a game of expectations. Nobody in baseball expected anything out of Humber when we picked him up, Jenks, Santos, Loaiza, Contreras, Thornton, etc.

 

Peavy hasn't been healthy for most of his time with the White Sox, although I guess you could blame Cooper for injuring him if you want.

 

With Beckham, Dunn, Rios and Viciedo, a LOT was expected/predicted out of them. I'm willing to give Walker a pass on Morel, because I never considered him a sure-fire major league starter like some here.

We aren't talking about Walker here. We are talking about Manto. He is the hitting coach. Walker is in ATL. He's watching the Braves hitters, they lead the NL in runs scored. Its Manto;s fault these guys aren't hitting now.

[caulfield12]

Himes drafted Durham, but Schueler definitely provided more major league ready hitters from the minor leagues, although he really got lucky with Maggs. The scout who signed Maggs showed up like 6 hours late for his workout, but Maggs stuck around. He also left him exposed in the rule 5 and no one took him. After the strike though, Schueler was a different GM. While KW has his player as his best hitter 12 years later, every year Schueler was the GM, his best player was a Larry Himes draft pick.

 

 

Yeah, I remember when I worked in Augusta in 1994, looking at the Elias Sports Bureau numbers every morning and seeing Ordonez and Jeff Abbott putting up huge numbers.

 

Abbott at that time was a bit more of a prospect, hitting nearly .400, Maggs seemingly came out of nowhere, he had that kind of penguin-shaped body and he wasn't putting up huge power numbers (more doubles) in the low minors, so scouts overlooked him. Always was a concern about him putting on too much weight and not being very fast.

[Soxfest]

The Walker "success" stories are Konerko, Quentin and Lillibridge, that's about it in recent years. And Paulie figured out a lot of those things on his own, through self-analysis and critical thinking in his 20's.

Konerko was 1st round pick. I think PK would of been fine with or without Walker!