hi8is Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 After the first 20 games the Sox sit at a .500 clip. Thus far we've seen some great games, some extremely dominating performances, and some very encouraging signs. Adam Dunn has a OBP of .356 with 7 doubles, 4 home runs, and 14 RBI. AJ has really been strong - hitting well over .300 with a team leading 17 RBI. Rios has looked like a new player - his head is in the game, he only has 1 error thus far, and on the offensive side of the field he's hitting line drives with authority all over the field. Paulie is showing no signs of regression and is crushing the ball. The first 10 games our pitching was lights out. I believe during that stretch we where throwing to a 2.86 clip in terms of team ERA. Santiago had 3 saves and a respectable 3.00 ERA Peavy, Sale, Floyd, Danks, and Humber looked to be all turning in stellar performances. Since then, we've seen Danks in two poor outings - ugly blown saves from Santiago - and some inept offense to boot. Beckham is off to another 2011 type year with the bat. Morel has started off slower than molasses. Viecido has shown some nice power and an improved approach at the plate - but he is off to a slow start too. Alexei is off to another slow start as well. We've seen a couple of nice stretches of baseball and a couple of really poor showings as well. The team shows signs of being true competitors and also shows signs of being unexperienced too. Who are the 2012 White Sox? Are they a team who gives up 20 runs in two games? Are they a team who gives up 2 run leads to poor teams like the Oakland A's and the Baltimore Orioles? or are they a team that can beat elite offensive teams like the Tigers, Rangers, and Red Sox? We'll see starting today. Hopefully they can win these next two and run off on a nice 8 game winning streak. Who this team is remains to be seen. I like what I've seen to date, even through the poor performances and slow starts. This year will be fun to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I think what you see right now (at .500) is pretty accurate to where we will likely be all year. Rios, Dunn, Konerko, AJ and Viciedo have had a nice offensive approach. Morel and Beckham look aweful with the bat. Alexei is looking decent. The pitching will make or break this team. This past week it hasn't been pretty. I think Hector will continue to improve as a closer. The good news is, the AL Central looks pretty mediocre thusfar. That means we may be hanging around all year long, making each game have an actually meaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 There are six guys that matter for the rebuilding crowd, Sale, Danks, Beckham, Viciedo, Reed, and Morel. Very promising results on Sale and Reed so far, very disturbing results on the other four. Problem is, the Sox can't afford to miss on any of the six due to the lack of help on the way from the minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 For all we know, Mitchell's play/progression in AA this year will matter just as much as anyone at the big league level. In case you've forgotten, we control Phil Humber for the next 3-4 seasons, he matters a lot. His results can balance out Danks'. Tyler Flowers and Josh Phegley matter, because otherwise we're going to have to make another trade or go out on the FA market for a catcher. Santiago is likely to be a rotation member in the future, he matters just as much as John Danks. Nathan Jones could be out of baseball in 3 years or be the White Sox closer at that time. The play of Ramirez, Dunn, Rios and Matt Thornton is incredibly important as well, because they're slated to be on the roster for 2013, when we could be expected to be competitive again if everything starts going according to plan. However, 2014 is more likely the target date. Otherwise, we've got to get some nice major league ready pieces back for Alexei, Matt and possibly Konerko (yes, that's going to be an emotional thread, keeping him vs. trading him or letting him go at the end of his contract.) The main problem with 2014 is that it's possible Konerko and AJ will be out of the picture entirely by then, and replacing them as well will also require a lot of 2008 "GM magic" (Floyd/Danks/Quentin/Alexei all in that 07-08 cycle.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 28, 2012 -> 05:22 PM) For all we know, Mitchell's play/progression in AA this year will matter just as much as anyone at the big league level. In case you've forgotten, we control Phil Humber for the next 3-4 seasons, he matters a lot. His results can balance out Danks'. Tyler Flowers and Josh Phegley matter, because otherwise we're going to have to make another trade or go out on the FA market for a catcher. Santiago is likely to be a rotation member in the future, he matters just as much as John Danks. Nathan Jones could be out of baseball in 3 years or be the White Sox closer at that time. The play of Ramirez, Dunn, Rios and Matt Thornton is incredibly important as well, because they're slated to be on the roster for 2013, when we could be expected to be competitive again if everything starts going according to plan. However, 2014 is more likely the target date. Otherwise, we've got to get some nice major league ready pieces back for Alexei, Matt and possibly Konerko (yes, that's going to be an emotional thread, keeping him vs. trading him or letting him go at the end of his contract.) The main problem with 2014 is that it's possible Konerko and AJ will be out of the picture entirely by then, and replacing them as well will also require a lot of 2008 "GM magic" (Floyd/Danks/Quentin/Alexei all in that 07-08 cycle.) How are the Sox going to compete next year, but not in 2012? I don't understand the reasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 28, 2012 -> 05:22 PM) Santiago is likely to be a rotation member in the future. Why do you keep saying this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Who are the 2012 White Sox you ask? A-They are .500 until they give us ANY reason to believe otherwise. Interesting thread, tho, I don't mean to mock the good responses I read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 A: A maddeningly inconsistant team that will tug on your heart strings by playing good for stretches against teams in contention and dominating weaker opponents followed by s***ting the bed against both inferior competition and not getting it up for great teams at the same time. They won't lose 90+ like i thought, but another .500 season looks in the books. Sigh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 The reality of it is that we don't yet know who the 2012 White Sox are. Based on what we've seen and what potential is there - they could actually end up playing to a .600+ clip. Conversely, they could end up playing to a .500 or below clip again. These next two full months will tell a lot and by the all-star break - this question should really be answered. The players on the field will tell us - until then, it's all just conjecture on our part... Which is the point of this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 28, 2012 -> 07:08 PM) How are the Sox going to compete next year, but not in 2012? I don't understand the reasoning. Viciedo's not a rookie, they clear Peavy's contract and AJ's contract, Molina could be ready to contribute, the 4 rookies in the current bullpen are 2nd year players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 QUOTE (daggins @ Apr 28, 2012 -> 05:51 PM) crap You Sir ( or Maam ) are a profound thinker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 .500 team as I see them but think about that nice little run White Sox always make during the summer. Pitching will be there but I'm slowly giving up on Beckham and Morel. Maybe Dick Allen can convince me otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 QUOTE (hi8is @ Apr 28, 2012 -> 11:41 PM) The reality of it is that we don't yet know who the 2012 White Sox are. Based on what we've seen and what potential is there - they could actually end up playing to a .600+ clip. Conversely, they could end up playing to a .500 or below clip again. These next two full months will tell a lot and by the all-star break - this question should really be answered. The players on the field will tell us - until then, it's all just conjecture on our part... Which is the point of this forum. I just see no way this team can play .600 ball. It already has told us all we need to know. It can't score runs (except the games we get 2-3 home runs) and it can't score runs. ONLY hope for a .600 mark is domination of the Central. If that is Robin's signature claim to fame, there's hope. But I see the Royals scoring a ton of runs off the Sox (they always get up for the Sox) and the Minnie hex doesn't figure to end overnight just cause of Robin. I think we'll play well vs. Cleveland. Detroit? I suspect they'll win each series against the Sox the rest of the way. Will they sweep? Dunno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black jack Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 They peaked last week. It's .500 or below from here out. Try to move Dunn, Rios, and Peavy while/if they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Apr 28, 2012 -> 08:44 PM) .500 team as I see them but think about that nice little run White Sox always make during the summer. Pitching will be there but I'm slowly giving up on Beckham and Morel. Maybe Dick Allen can convince me otherwise. Convince you of what? That Greg Walker should be brought back to work with Gordon and Brent before we give up on Gordon and (possibly) Brent for good? Morel's earned 2-3 more months, or 250-300 AB's. You can't really say the same about Beckham. The fact that he's a .221 career hitter in one of the best hitter's parks in baseball, over a 3 year period...that's more than enough evidence to convict/indict him for being a suspect and no longer a prospect. Edited April 29, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 29, 2012 -> 12:10 AM) Convince you of what? That Greg Walker should be brought back to work with Gordon and Brent before we give up on Gordon and (possibly) Brent for good? Morel's earned 2-3 more months, or 250-300 AB's. You can't really say the same about Beckham. The fact that he's a .221 career hitter in one of the best hitter's parks in baseball, over a 3 year period...that's more than enough evidence to convict/indict him for being a suspect and no longer a prospect. Dick said in one of the game threads that Godron Beckham is few days away from figuring things out and will start hitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 QUOTE (black jack @ Apr 29, 2012 -> 12:05 AM) They peaked last week. It's .500 or below from here out. Try to move Dunn, Rios, and Peavy while/if they can. well f*** me if I didn't waste $125 on MLB.tv then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 QUOTE (black jack @ Apr 29, 2012 -> 12:05 AM) They peaked last week. It's .500 or below from here out. Try to move Dunn, Rios, and Peavy while/if they can. Dunn...Rios...and Peavy are not going anywhere unless the Sox eat a ton of money. And I don't see that happening. Why are we constantly seeing these suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Apr 30, 2012 -> 08:36 AM) Dunn...Rios...and Peavy are not going anywhere unless the Sox eat a ton of money. And I don't see that happening. Why are we constantly seeing these suggestions? If they continue hitting, Rios and Dunn might be moveable at the deadline or even afterwards on the waiver wire line if someone is appropriately desperate and has room to add salary. People have overlooked bad seasons to focus on current numbers before. Peavy keeps this up, he's probably going to be moveable...but yes the Sox will have to send along some money, because Peavy would effectively be owed about $11 million for the final 2 months. If the Sox just accept that his salary is a sunk cost and chip in a portion of it, then Peavy might be the easiest one to actually trade because people will be beating down the door to get him if he can be had for $5 million for the last 2 months. But...that requires the White Sox franchise to overcome their mental block about sending salary along in a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 30, 2012 -> 07:48 AM) If they continue hitting, Rios and Dunn might be moveable at the deadline or even afterwards on the waiver wire line if someone is appropriately desperate and has room to add salary. People have overlooked bad seasons to focus on current numbers before. Peavy keeps this up, he's probably going to be moveable...but yes the Sox will have to send along some money, because Peavy would effectively be owed about $11 million for the final 2 months. If the Sox just accept that his salary is a sunk cost and chip in a portion of it, then Peavy might be the easiest one to actually trade because people will be beating down the door to get him if he can be had for $5 million for the last 2 months. But...that requires the White Sox franchise to overcome their mental block about sending salary along in a trade. I could possibly see Peavy being moved if he continues pitching like he has. But, what do you think the Sox could get for half a season of the guy? Unless a team takes all or most of the remaining salary, the Sox would need something decent in return. If they just trade him for junk AND eat the cost, what's the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Apr 30, 2012 -> 09:26 AM) I could possibly see Peavy being moved if he continues pitching like he has. But, what do you think the Sox could get for half a season of the guy? Unless a team takes all or most of the remaining salary, the Sox would need something decent in return. If they just trade him for junk AND eat the cost, what's the point? If the Sox could save $5 million on moving him, that's $5 million more that could be put towards payroll in a year that we're not playing 3 sub-.200 , 26 or younger hitters in April. Even better if we could get someone to throw in a talented A-baller while we're at it. But...Saving $5 million would require the Sox still eating $7 million or so...and I just don't know they'd be willing to do that even if it's the right move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 30, 2012 -> 07:32 AM) If the Sox could save $5 million on moving him, that's $5 million more that could be put towards payroll in a year that we're not playing 3 sub-.200 , 26 or younger hitters in April. Even better if we could get someone to throw in a talented A-baller while we're at it. But...Saving $5 million would require the Sox still eating $7 million or so...and I just don't know they'd be willing to do that even if it's the right move. If he continues to pitch like his 2007 self...come July, we won't have to eat any salary. We'll trade him to the Dodgers and possibly even get a couple live, breathing baseball players for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 30, 2012 -> 09:47 AM) If he continues to pitch like his 2007 self...come July, we won't have to eat any salary. We'll trade him to the Dodgers and possibly even get a couple live, breathing baseball players for him. $12 million for 2 months is a ton of money. If someone wants to take that on, great...but I'm skeptical until I see it. That's probably about what ARod is getting paid for thsoe 2 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 30, 2012 -> 07:49 AM) $12 million for 2 months is a ton of money. If someone wants to take that on, great...but I'm skeptical until I see it. That's probably about what ARod is getting paid for thsoe 2 months. How do you get $12 million for 2 months? If you trade him in early July, the'll have him 3 full months and probably pay $10.5 million, if you're counting that $4 million buyout... Edited April 30, 2012 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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