Dick Allen Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ May 5, 2012 -> 04:34 PM) There were some lingering questions about his health from the previous season, IIRC. But he hasn't had any other problem other than the lat with the Sox, so any of those fears have been thwarted. Its always a risk because of the money, but its the type of trade you want your GM to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ May 5, 2012 -> 04:35 PM) Should have done that a week ago. No one would trade for him right now. I can think of a ton of teams that would love to have Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 5, 2012 -> 03:31 PM) Not really. The Sox traded for him when he was healthy using the same players as bait. That's when he said no. And then KW's stubborn-ness/he has to get his man eventually act kicked in. We did still have a chance to compete at that point (maybe 20-25%), but it would have made a much more dramatic difference to pick up Peavy 1 1/2 months earlier in the season, not to mention the disaster to the clubhouse morale of flopping Rios for Jermaine Dye and keeping JD on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 5, 2012 -> 03:37 PM) I can think of a ton of teams that would love to have Sale. And they'll give up what exactly in return? Nothing like what the return would have been 48 hours ago. It's not unlike waiting too long to trade Jenks and Crede. Now the point of getting something of value that's not at least 2-3 years away in the low minors is gone for good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 5, 2012 -> 04:50 PM) And they'll give up what exactly in return? Nothing like what the return would have been 48 hours ago. It's not unlike waiting too long to trade Jenks and Crede. Now the point of getting something of value that's not at least 2-3 years away in the low minors is gone for good. I don't care what his "return" would have been 48 hours ago. The Sox should keep good young cheap players if they want to be good. I suppose you think the Bulls should have traded Michael Jordan and was pissed off they didn't before he broke his foot. You probably also think the Sox should have traded Frank Thomas after he won back to back MVPs when he value was never higher. Chances are the Sox aren't going to win the WS again in any of the players' they have in the organization careers, but they might, so it shouldn't stop them from trying. Edited May 5, 2012 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 5, 2012 -> 04:54 PM) I don't care what his "return" would have been 48 hours ago. The Sox should keep good young cheap players if they want to be good. I suppose you think the Bulls should have traded Michael Jordan and was pissed off they didn't before he broke his foot. You probably also think the Sox should have traded Frank Thomas after he won back to back MVPs when he value was never higher. Chances are the Sox aren't going to win the WS again in any of the players' they have in the organization careers, but they might, so it shouldn't stop them from trying. Comparing Michael Jordan/Scottie Pippen and Chris Sale is beyond ridiculous. When he was drafted, the majority of scouting reports had him as a reliever. Other than Dennis Eckersley, Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffmann and a few others, nobody is going to put up a poster in their room of a major league closer. You hold onto young starting pitching and young position impact players, especially at C/SS/2B/CF. Anyone who knows talent can see you build a team around a Bryce Harper/Strasburg and that Chris Sale is a complementary piece to a playoff team to put them over the top. But you don't trade 3-5 young Top 10 prospects for a Chris Sale. You'd be lucky to get just one at this point. Chances are the Sox aren't going to win the WS again in any of the players' they have in the organization careers, but they might, so it shouldn't stop them from trying. I wouldn't care so much if I wasn't a White Sox fan. I wouldn't ever want the organization to stop trying, just not with THIS particular GM. Edited May 5, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 5, 2012 -> 05:01 PM) Comparing Michael Jordan/Scottie Pippen and Chris Sale is beyond ridiculous. When he was drafted, the majority of scouting reports had him as a reliever. Other than Dennis Eckersley, Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffmann and a few others, nobody is going to put up a poster in their room of a major league closer. You hold onto young starting pitching and young position impact players, especially at C/SS/2B/CF. Anyone who knows talent can see you build a team around a Bryce Harper/Strasburg and that Chris Sale is a complementary piece to a playoff team to put them over the top. But you don't trade 3-5 young Top 10 prospects for a Chris Sale. You'd be lucky to get just one at this point. I'm not comparing him, just your philosophy of trading guys when the "have peak value" instead of enjoying their talents playing for your team. Why would the Sox trade Sale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 5, 2012 -> 05:01 PM) Comparing Michael Jordan/Scottie Pippen and Chris Sale is beyond ridiculous. When he was drafted, the majority of scouting reports had him as a reliever. Other than Dennis Eckersley, Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffmann and a few others, nobody is going to put up a poster in their room of a major league closer. You hold onto young starting pitching and young position impact players, especially at C/SS/2B/CF. Anyone who knows talent can see you build a team around a Bryce Harper/Strasburg and that Chris Sale is a complementary piece to a playoff team to put them over the top. But you don't trade 3-5 young Top 10 prospects for a Chris Sale. You'd be lucky to get just one at this point. Chances are the Sox aren't going to win the WS again in any of the players' they have in the organization careers, but they might, so it shouldn't stop them from trying. I wouldn't care so much if I wasn't a White Sox fan. I wouldn't ever want the organization to stop trying, just not with THIS particular GM. If this was Natstalk.com you would have been crying for days the Nats should have either traded or never drafted Strasburg when he went down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 5, 2012 -> 05:04 PM) If this was Natstalk.com you would have been crying for days the Nats should have either traded or never drafted Strasburg when he went down. No, not really. Tommy John surgery has been perfected to the point where it consistently brings back pitchers these days at better than 100% (Liriano is one of the few exceptions). The only problem is that we've already wasted 3+ years of Sale before he could ever become a starter. And at least I'm not crying about Greg Walker no longer being the hitting coach. Adam Dunn's thankful for that, I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 5, 2012 -> 05:02 PM) I'm not comparing him, just your philosophy of trading guys when the "have peak value" instead of enjoying their talents playing for your team. Why would the Sox trade Sale? Glad you're not my stockbroker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 5, 2012 -> 06:08 PM) Glad you're not my stockbroker. I can assure you the biggest mistake discount traders make is not admitting their mistakes and getting out of winning trades while hanging on to the losers. Getting rid of your best players and keeping the not so good ones will get you the same result. Edited May 5, 2012 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 5, 2012 -> 06:13 PM) I can assure you the biggest mistake discount traders make is not admitting their mistakes and getting out of winning trades while hanging on to the losers. The biggest mistake is not getting too greedy and knowing when the right time to take a profit is...or holding onto stocks too long in hopes they will eventually rebound in value because their price was ONCE $124 per share, so it has to return to that point (false) logically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 5, 2012 -> 06:16 PM) The biggest mistake is not getting too greedy and knowing when the right time to take a profit is...or holding onto stocks too long in hopes they will eventually rebound in value because their price was ONCE $124 per share, so it has to return to that point (false) logically. So you want to base the entire roster not on how they stack up against their rivals, not if they have a chance to do some serious winning, but by what they are worth to other teams? You want the White Sox to be the farm system to the major leagues. Reed better not be too effective because you immediately would have to trade him for someone who is not at peak value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 5, 2012 -> 07:16 PM) The biggest mistake is not getting too greedy and knowing when the right time to take a profit is...or holding onto stocks too long in hopes they will eventually rebound in value because their price was ONCE $124 per share, so it has to return to that point (false) logically. Of course...that's not exactly a good comparison, since holding onto a guy gives you the ability to have the guy perform for you. Perhaps a more apt comparison is buying and selling gasoline for profit. If you wanted, you could fill up every gas tank you have when gas drops to $2.75, then sell it all when gas is $3.50 and turn a profit. Or, you could also drive, using up that gasoline, but fail to turn a profit because you used the gasoline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 I think tons of teams would shell out prospects for Sale this summer. If our management thinks he is an injury risk long term then we need to get rid of him. Throw him out of the bullpen the next 2 months, make it look like he's fine, and then trade him. If he can't start then he is more valuable as a young impact bat we receive than as a RP for us. There will be teams willing to take the risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,2673521.story Chris Sale really doesn't seem to be convinced that he shouldn't be starting Sunday or that his mechanics have anything to do with his general elbow soreness. This story gets more the more interesting, between Sale, Cooper, Ventura and Williams, all saying somewhat different and conflicting things to an extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Addison Reed should be the closer. He got tossed into the fire and came out clean. Might have only been one batter, but 97mph gas? Yes please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (Cali @ May 5, 2012 -> 08:30 PM) Addison Reed should be the closer. He got tossed into the fire and came out clean. Might have only been one batter, but 97mph gas? Yes please. Nate Jones and his 98mph fastball AND superior offspeed pitches have something to say about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ May 5, 2012 -> 08:31 PM) Nate Jones and his 98mph fastball AND superior offspeed pitches have something to say about that I think Nate Jones has been pretty good, but iirc he had a lot of control issues in the minors. I would rather Reed do the job that he did all through college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 5, 2012 -> 07:42 PM) I think Nate Jones has been pretty good, but iirc he had a lot of control issues in the minors. I would rather Reed do the job that he did all through college. At the very least, Jones can mature into a 7th-8th inning reliever (hopefully) and be the main reason we can dump Crain's contract and don't need Jason Frasor. That would be really good, compared to where he was about 2 years ago as a prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 5, 2012 -> 08:42 PM) I think Nate Jones has been pretty good, but iirc he had a lot of control issues in the minors. I would rather Reed do the job that he did all through college. Yeah it's great that Jones has been able to put things together, I wouldn't actually push him into the closer's role even if there weren't several people in front of him. His stuff is unbelievable though, it's easy to see why they let him flounder as a starter for so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Yea I definitely see Jones in the 7th and then 8th inning relief roles in the future if he has found his command. He throws 98 mph like it is nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 If you're moving Sale back to the bullpen, then Thornton should immediately be tradebait in a deal involving at least one young SP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 And that starting pitching prospect better be able to throw in the mid 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 5, 2012 -> 10:30 PM) And that starting pitching prospect better be able to throw in the mid 90's. Vance Worley would work for me. Philly can afford to move a SP to shore up their bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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