Chris Sale is now the CLOSER?!/Until he's not (Update)

[Marty34]

This has been said pretty much every season since KW has been the GM, yet somehow he has been able to trade for proven starters like Peavy, Jackson, Garcia, Vazquez, etc. Somehow the Sox minors doesnt look as bad to opposing GMs as it does to us, weird.

 

Solid point except for the small fact that Garcia was the only one that panned out.

[caulfield12]

Solid point except for the small fact that Garcia was the only one that panned out.

 

Unless you define it as leading to Zach Stewart, saving money on Mark Teahen and adding Lillibridge/Flowers/Santos Rodriguez.

 

But clearly comparing Stewart to Hudson/Holmberg's going to be a debacle that never goes away from KW's recent resume. In the middle, from 2003-2008, Williams was among the best.

 

2001-2002 and 2009-2011, the absolute worst or bottom 5.

 

No in between with KW.

Edited May 6, 2012 by caulfield12

[JorgeFabregas]

Solid point except for the small fact that Garcia was the only one that panned out.

Edwin Jackson was a good pitcher for the Sox. The problem was the price paid (6 cost controlled years of Hudson).

[Reddy]

and how did Jackson and Vazquez turn out for us?

 

and i seem to recall a lot of b****ing about peavy (and it taking 3 years for him to turn in any good results)

 

listen, maybe the sky isn't falling, maybe we'll be competitive, i don't know. all i'm SAYING is that the path to competitiveness is now MORE DIFFICULT than it was two days ago.

 

ALL I'M SAYING is that this was a horribly handled situation, and you cannot argue that. If a kid has injury potential, don't TELL THE WORLD about it by doing something so drastic like this, completely destroying his trade value. You've literally taken yourself from having a plethora of options with the kid (start him, DL him, bullpen, trade) and now having no other option besides having him in the bullpen. How can anyone say that ISN'T a horrible business decision?

[Kyyle23]

Solid point except for the small fact that Garcia was the only one that panned out.

 

That still doesnt change the fact that talent can be acquired. And the Jury is still out on Peavy. Obviously he has a lot of ground to make up, but his start has been nothing short of awesome. i honestly dont think Jackson was that bad either, he had some really stellar starts

 

Plus, there have been diamonds in the rough like Loaiza, Contreras, and Humber that have shown up and provided some really good innings for the Sox.

 

 

My point is there is a lot of "OMG we are done forever and it will never get better" posts that are all based on the decision to move Sale to the bullpen right now. It hasnt been decided for the duration of his career, just right now. And who knows, maybe there is an about face on Sale and he comes back to the rotation sooner than we think.

[Marty34]

That still doesnt change the fact that talent can be acquired. And the Jury is still out on Peavy. Obviously he has a lot of ground to make up, but his start has been nothing short of awesome. i honestly dont think Jackson was that bad either, he had some really stellar starts

 

Plus, there have been diamonds in the rough like Loaiza, Contreras, and Humber that have shown up and provided some really good innings for the Sox.

 

 

My point is there is a lot of "OMG we are done forever and it will never get better" posts that are all based on the decision to move Sale to the bullpen right now. It hasnt been decided for the duration of his career, just right now. And who knows, maybe there is an about face on Sale and he comes back to the rotation sooner than we think.

 

How long do you think the Sox are done for?

[Kyyle23]

How long do you think the Sox are done for?

 

I dont think they are done.

[Reddy]

That still doesnt change the fact that talent can be acquired. And the Jury is still out on Peavy. Obviously he has a lot of ground to make up, but his start has been nothing short of awesome. i honestly dont think Jackson was that bad either, he had some really stellar starts

 

Plus, there have been diamonds in the rough like Loaiza, Contreras, and Humber that have shown up and provided some really good innings for the Sox.

 

 

My point is there is a lot of "OMG we are done forever and it will never get better" posts that are all based on the decision to move Sale to the bullpen right now. It hasnt been decided for the duration of his career, just right now. And who knows, maybe there is an about face on Sale and he comes back to the rotation sooner than we think.

the white sox are looking at sale as their permanent closer. permanent. not starting. he spent this WHOLE OFFSEASON preparing to start, and the sox brass still wasn't ok with it. what's he gonna have to do to change their mind? There's nothing he CAN do. This is his new job. He's never starting again. If he DID, we'd be having a Joba Chamberlain situation, and we know what happened there.

[Kyyle23]

the white sox are looking at sale as their permanent closer. permanent. not starting. he spent this WHOLE OFFSEASON preparing to start, and the sox brass still wasn't ok with it. what's he gonna have to do to change their mind? There's nothing he CAN do. This is his new job. He's never starting again. If he DID, we'd be having a Joba Chamberlain situation, and we know what happened there.

 

I dont really believe this at all. But that is just me.

[Marty34]

and how did Jackson and Vazquez turn out for us?

 

and i seem to recall a lot of b****ing about peavy (and it taking 3 years for him to turn in any good results)

 

listen, maybe the sky isn't falling, maybe we'll be competitive, i don't know. all i'm SAYING is that the path to competitiveness is now MORE DIFFICULT than it was two days ago.

 

ALL I'M SAYING is that this was a horribly handled situation, and you cannot argue that. If a kid has injury potential, don't TELL THE WORLD about it by doing something so drastic like this, completely destroying his trade value. You've literally taken yourself from having a plethora of options with the kid (start him, DL him, bullpen, trade) and now having no other option besides having him in the bullpen. How can anyone say that ISN'T a horrible business decision?

 

The only positive I can hope from this is that it may be a sign that KW is on borrowed time. Given how important Sale was to his rebuilding plan, I don't think he'd make the decision to move him to the pen based on a tender elbow. I think this came from Herm as directed by Chairman Reinsdorf.

[Dick Allen]

the white sox are looking at sale as their permanent closer. permanent. not starting. he spent this WHOLE OFFSEASON preparing to start, and the sox brass still wasn't ok with it. what's he gonna have to do to change their mind? There's nothing he CAN do. This is his new job. He's never starting again. If he DID, we'd be having a Joba Chamberlain situation, and we know what happened there.

I agree with this.

[Marty34]

I dont think they are done.

 

I don't understand.

[Kyyle23]

If he stays a closer for his career, hopefully he is one of the leagues best for the duration of his career. It definitely changes direction of the club, but seeing how good he was as a starter, i just have a hard time believing that they will never give him a chance to do it again. Like I said, that is just me.

[Kyyle23]

I don't understand.

 

Of course you dont, you think they are done for a long time. I think they will remain competitive, throughout this season and into the future. It isnt hard to understand, you just dont want to

[Marty34]

Of course you dont, you think they are done for a long time. I think they will remain competitive, throughout this season and into the future. It isnt hard to understand, you just dont want to

 

explain, you may be on to something.

[Reddy]

Of course you dont, you think they are done for a long time. I think they will remain competitive, throughout this season and into the future. It isnt hard to understand, you just dont want to

WHY

[Kyyle23]

explain, you may be on to something.

 

There is nothing to explain, I just see this team being better than what we are currently seeing. Right now the Sox have gotten minimal production out of everyone not named Dunn, Konerko and Pierzynski. Beckham looks to be turning a corner, Alexei always comes out of his funk in May/June, Viciedo is a notorious slow starter, and De Aza is going to be a good leadoff hitter for the Sox. For me that leaves Morel and whoever fills Sales spot in the rotation as the question marks. These can be remedied through trades or call-ups(for pitcher. obviously hoping Axelrod is better than I think he is. And I dont know that he is very good at all).

 

Every major league team's success depends on X player having a career year and Y player coming out of nowhere to succeed. Sometimes it happens sometimes it doesnt, it isnt in my nature to sit here and predict failure based on one player going to the pen. s*** happens in the majors, how teams deal with it is what makes them succeed or fail.

[Kyyle23]

WHY

 

because whining about stuff is lame

[iamshack]

Over the course of the past 7 years or so, when has starting pitching ever been the problem for the White Sox?

 

Danks will be fine...he didn't suddenly forget how to pitch and he didn't suddenly lose all his stuff at the ripe old age of 27. He has a pattern of struggling to begin the year the last few seasons, but I firmly believe he'll come out of it and put up a reasonably solid season. Is he a #1, I think we all know he can be from one game to the next, but consistently, no. He's not an ace (spare me the acronyms please). But in my humble opinion he's going to be a solid #2 or 3 for the next five years and I think when all is said and done the results will back that up.

 

We just traded for several SP prospects, including Molina, Castro, etc,. While the odds are that not all of them will turn into top flight starters, the talent is there for a few of them to fill out our rotation for several years to come.

 

Floyd will most likely be dealt for more SP prospects that will add to that depth. In the meantime, he's going to be a solid innings-eater and #3 starter.

 

Peavy appears to be our ace this year, and while it's difficult to trust him after just 6 starts, every indication is that he is healthy for the first time in 4 years and we can expect a very good season out of him. The stuff and the know-how has been there since his first start against the Rangers.

 

Humber is going to be a great #4. While he's been rusty for the past couple starts, he's also been dealing with the limelight from throwing a perfect game and then the birth of his child. He'll settle down and be just fine.

 

Obviously, that leads us to the #5 spot and Axelrod. I've not seen him pitch enough to have an opinion but he was dealing down in Charlotte in April and he certainly has the ability to be a #5 starter in the central division this year.

 

It's a shame about Sale, but I hesitate that his removal from the rotation takes us from a team with the best SP in the central to a team with the worst.

 

Caufield, I enjoy your posts and the interesting information you constantly bring, but you've taken so many different positions over the course of the past month I can't take you seriously at this point. You're the Mitt Romney of Soxtalk as far as this season goes.

 

I appreciate everyone's passion for the team and their desire to discuss the very uncertain position the Organization seems to be in at the moment, but the fact is we simply need to see more from this team before any course of action is apparent.

 

We seem to have the Adam Dunn we thought we were signing in 2011, the Jake Peavy we thought we traded for in 2009, and the Gordon Beckham of 2009 has even made a recent appearance.

 

Let's all take a few deep breaths and see how things pan out a bit more, shall we?

[Marty34]

because whining about stuff is lame

 

I don't see how it's whining to realize a tough rebuilding with Sale at the top of the rotation became an impossible one with him in the bullpen.

 

[Kyyle23]

I don't see how it's whining to realize a tough rebuilding with Sale at the top of the rotation became an impossible one with him in the bullpen.

 

because it isnt impossible. Just a change of direction.

[Reddy]

because it isnt impossible. Just a change of direction.

but it is HARDER than it was 2 days ago! jesus

[Reddy]

Over the course of the past 7 years or so, when has starting pitching ever been the problem for the White Sox?

 

were you around for 02, 03 and 04?

[McDude]

24 pages, can't read it all, but i'm sure someone made this comment

 

Is Nestor Molina ready yet to take Sale's spot? :P :P

[iamshack]

were you around for 02, 03 and 04?

Yes, I absolutely was...and since then, has he figured out ways to address the issue?