Jenksismyhero Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 9, 2012 -> 03:13 PM) It doesn't have to be "out of nothing" because "nothing" is only defined within the space of the dimensions of the universe, so until that collision happened, it wasn't nothing, it just was what it was. It's difficult to put into words what the concept of a 12 dimensional membrane where time doesn't really exist actually represents, but it's at least a fascinating set of math and I'm looking forward to where it goes in the next decade. We might well have some evidence for it based on the wMAP analysis. You're still ignoring that at some point "something" existed to start the ball rolling. "Something" doesn't appear from nothingness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 9, 2012 -> 04:15 PM) You're still ignoring that at some point "something" existed to start the ball rolling. "Something" doesn't appear from nothingness. It does if you can define the words away because there is no such thing as nothing, just certain patterns of vibrations. (This is a very difficult one to put into text that is remotely comprehensible). Again...if "requiring that the universe came out of nothing" is a key part of your belief system, or that science cant explain how something came from nothing...then your belief system is in very short order going to be on shaky grounds. You might not understand it, and I probably won't...but that's where we're going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 9, 2012 -> 08:10 PM) It's not the right or wrong of it, it's coming off as smarmy that gets annoying and frankly I just don't get the need for it. All it does is get the right to be even more stringent in their position and doesn't advance the ball at all. I don't intend to come across as smarmy, but I will be blunt. Religion is too often treated with kid gloves in this country. Some beliefs are simply stupid. I know they're stupid and you know they're stupid, but if you say it, suddenly you're "angry". There are certain people for whom the ball cannot be advanced against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ May 9, 2012 -> 08:38 PM) Because it makes it sound like if you didn't believe in your god, YOU would be some crazy hedonist. Or maybe my mind just races and I come up with wild questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 9, 2012 -> 08:20 PM) Or maybe my mind just races and I come up with wild questions. No problem, dude. I don't think you're a psycho who would murder me if he lost his religious faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 9, 2012 -> 03:09 PM) I think a candidate could run a campaign of being agnostic and win yes. It's becoming less and less important for voters under the age of probably 40. Edit: and you do know that polling shows a mormon beating a christian right now right? I mean, mormons are more ridiculous than athiests, amiright? Mormonism is a branch of christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 9, 2012 -> 03:18 PM) It does if you can define the words away because there is no such thing as nothing, just certain patterns of vibrations. (This is a very difficult one to put into text that is remotely comprehensible). Again...if "requiring that the universe came out of nothing" is a key part of your belief system, or that science cant explain how something came from nothing...then your belief system is in very short order going to be on shaky grounds. You might not understand it, and I probably won't...but that's where we're going. Turtles all the way down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 9, 2012 -> 04:09 PM) I think a candidate could run a campaign of being agnostic and win yes. It's becoming less and less important for voters under the age of probably 40. Edit: and you do know that polling shows a mormon beating a christian right now right? I mean, mormons are more ridiculous than athiests, amiright? Pretty regularly polls show that athiests are the religious(or religion absent) group people would have the most problem voting for out of any in this country. From the Wiki: Indeed, several polls have shown that about 50 percent of Americans would not vote for a well-qualified atheist for president.[54][55] A 2006 study found that 40% of respondents characterized atheists as a group that did "not at all agree with my vision of American society", and that 48% would not want their child to marry an atheist. In both studies, percentages of disapproval of atheists were above those for Muslims, African-Americans and homosexuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 9, 2012 -> 03:22 PM) Mormonism is a branch of christianity. I know, a crazy one though. Magical underpants and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 9, 2012 -> 03:26 PM) Pretty regularly polls show that athiests are the religious(or religion absent) group people would have the most problem voting for out of any in this country. From the Wiki: For something so "important," 50% seems like a small number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 9, 2012 -> 09:55 PM) For something so "important," 50% seems like a small number. ? It means they basically automatically lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 9, 2012 -> 01:54 PM) I know, a crazy one though. Magical underpants and all. Exhibit B Apparently it's only wrong and smarmy when it's your religion that's attacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 9, 2012 -> 07:53 PM) In Chicago it's rarely, if ever, a story. You hear about religion when there's a scandal. And that's one reason the newspapers are all dying and nobody watches TV news. You know how many Catholics there are on the South Side of Chicago? You know how many religious people want to hear about religion? And the news media treats us all like we are lepers. The news media cannot discuss religion. I'm shocked WGN still airs the midnight mass on Xmas Eve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Human brains aren't advanced enough to figure out where all this came from. Whether it's 6000 years ago or 6 billion years ago...and there are two ways of dealing with it...one is faith and one is science. Neither is wrong, per se, but ultimately, one is going to be right. Unfortunately, we aren't there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 9, 2012 -> 02:04 PM) Preface - i'm not all that religious myself, though I do believe in the Christian God and, generally, the teachings of the Christian faith. I just don't get why people who are not religious have to be so vehement about it, to the point of almost being angry. If someone wants to believe, let them believe. It's like you think that if anyone is talking to you about their beliefs they're preaching to you and you have to be all strong and defiant about not believing it, otherwise you'll be viewed as weak-minded. Complete opposite for me, I've been told countless times that I am a terrible human being for not believing in God, for not going to church, etc. Even when growing up my parents got chastised for not putting me and my brother at the local private, church led school and that me and him were going to become drug addicts. Irony of that whole story is that my brother and I both became engineers with great jobs right out of top universities and their kids were the ones who became high school flame outs due to drugs. Good people are good people, s***ty people are going to be s***ty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 9, 2012 -> 04:10 PM) Exhibit B Apparently it's only wrong and smarmy when it's your religion that's attacked. Yeah that was a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 9, 2012 -> 04:22 PM) And that's one reason the newspapers are all dying and nobody watches TV news. You know how many Catholics there are on the South Side of Chicago? You know how many religious people want to hear about religion? And the news media treats us all like we are lepers. The news media cannot discuss religion. I'm shocked WGN still airs the midnight mass on Xmas Eve. If religious people want to hear about religion...then they should know where to go to get that information. News media reports news. Not to mention, in places like Chicago...where there are multiple religions co-existing, the local news media can't focus on Catholicism, because they will lose everyone else. And don't start with the priests and molestation. That's newsworthy because it's just plain wrong on multiple levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 9, 2012 -> 04:22 PM) And that's one reason the newspapers are all dying and nobody watches TV news. You know how many Catholics there are on the South Side of Chicago? You know how many religious people want to hear about religion? And the news media treats us all like we are lepers. The news media cannot discuss religion. I'm shocked WGN still airs the midnight mass on Xmas Eve. Lol, digital media is killing the newspapers, not the lack of religious coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ May 9, 2012 -> 04:08 PM) ? It means they basically automatically lose. But if the overwhelming majority of people are religious and consider religious belief to be a "must," why isn't that number closer to 80-85% (the number of people in the US who consider themselves religious)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (greg775 @ May 9, 2012 -> 01:54 PM) 1.) It doesn't have to be illegal to be a life of debauchery. You don't need to end up in a cell. Just drink every night. Cheat on the wife constantly, etc. I mean if when you die, boom it's ova, why not just go nuts here? Buy big houses, boats, cars even if they eventually get repossessed. Take zillions of risks professionally. Hitchhike to California for a month and see what happens there. Hey seriously, join the 21st century. I would be hard-pressed to find anyone more devoted to their wife than I, and I don't need some bulls*** deity to tell me not to cheat on her. Edited May 9, 2012 by Steve9347 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 9, 2012 -> 01:54 PM) 2.) Why would you diss the Bible? Many of us listen to the Old and New testament weekly at Mass and believe it and know all the stories and believe them. Why don't you consider investing in the "word of God?" Some intelligent people drop God's name every third sentence or so they utter on a daily basis. Are they crazy? You've probably met those. Are they completely off base? Thanking God, talking about God, etc. You asked if it was real. I said no. I did not diss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 9, 2012 -> 02:22 PM) And that's one reason the newspapers are all dying and nobody watches TV news. You know how many Catholics there are on the South Side of Chicago? You know how many religious people want to hear about religion? And the news media treats us all like we are lepers. The news media cannot discuss religion. I'm shocked WGN still airs the midnight mass on Xmas Eve. Are you on medication? You seriously type some of the most bizarre posts I've ever read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 9, 2012 -> 04:31 PM) Hey seriously, go f*** yourself. I would be hard-pressed to find anyone more devoted to their wife than I, and I don't need some bulls*** deity to tell me not to cheat on her. I'm pretty devoted to your wife... ZING!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 9, 2012 -> 04:31 PM) Hey seriously, go f*** yourself. I would be hard-pressed to find anyone more devoted to their wife than I, and I don't need some bulls*** deity to tell me not to cheat on her. I know this forum is about having thick skin but let's stop this form of personal attack right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 9, 2012 -> 04:32 PM) Are you on medication? You seriously type some of the most bizarre posts I've ever read. This. Greg, believe what you want. However, your questions are some of the most judgmental posts I've read on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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