Kyyle23 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 9, 2012 -> 08:01 AM) Only 33? Is that a Hawkism from the 80s? nah, that was a hawkism coming from myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 9, 2012 -> 07:28 AM) If a guy is happy with sitting on the bench, I don't want him on my team. I agree, unless its a guy winding down his career and is happy to sit down. I fail to see anything wrong with players wanting to play. Its certainly better than the alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 OH THE CONTROVERSY! http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...ws&c_id=cws • After starting both games of Monday's doubleheader, Kosuke Fukudome expressed to Japanese reporters that he would like to get more consistent at-bats to help sharpen his offensive game. Manager Robin Ventura understands and appreciates Fukudome's desire, although he might not be able to immediately accommodate him. "It's the right attitude. I like guys that want to play," Ventura said. "It doesn't always work out that way. But I like guys that are wanting to play and willing to play. That's always good, but as far as the role that he has, it's more the fourth outfielder." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 9, 2012 -> 09:29 AM) OH THE CONTROVERSY! http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...ws&c_id=cws If this team doesn't make the playoffs, we can blame it on this controversy and Robin's inexperience in handling a major crisis with players openingly questioning his evaluation of talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 lol, Robin put it as eloquently as he could. Basically, "if we could start four guys in the outfield, Kosuke would definitely start!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Fine, then why did Gonzales even bother to report this? Why is it noteworthy enough to include in a column? How is it significant? Until someone can show the actual quotes in Japanese, then I can sit here and argue that Mark Gonzales knows more what's going on in that clubhouse than we do and maybe there is an issue there, who knows? Everyone is simply commenting on the English translation of what was said. It might have been 3-5 minutes of conversation boiled down to a one-sentence English translation. It might have been something perfectly innocuous, that's also true. "Fukudome, if possible, would like to play more, if the opportunities are made available to him by the manager, whose line-up decision-making process has to be respected." Okay...lol. Edited May 9, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 9, 2012 -> 03:33 PM) Fine, then why did Gonzales even bother to report this? Why is it noteworthy enough to include in a column? How is it significant? Until someone can show the actual quotes in Japanese, then I can sit here and argue that Mark Gonzales knows more what's going on in that clubhouse than we do and maybe there is an issue there, who knows? Everyone is simply commenting on the English translation of what was said. It might have been 3-5 minutes of conversation boiled down to a one-sentence English translation. It might have been something perfectly innocuous, that's also true. "Fukudome, if possible, would like to play more, if the opportunities are made available to him by the manager, whose line-up decision-making process has to be respected." Okay...lol. Including you... except you turned it into the most extreme, controversy-creating possibility there is. That is why people pounded you for it. Do you not see that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 9, 2012 -> 02:42 PM) Including you... except you turned it into the most extreme, controversy-creating possibility there is. That is why people pounded you for it. Do you not see that? But didn't you just in the Sale thread take 3-4 counter-examples that ran contrary to what you were arguing and refuse to admit them as evidence? So now if I'm getting pounded for something, the "group think" is right, but if a number of posters in that thread are disagreeing with you, you still feel you're right and entitled to your opinion, correct? Do you not see why many on the board are upset, without needing confirmation from Chris Rongey that therefore validates their right to be upset or confused? Edited May 9, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Robin Ventura said he understood and supported Fukodome expressing his feelings and wanted players who wanted to play. That's good enough for me thank you very much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 9, 2012 -> 03:49 PM) But didn't you just in the Sale thread take 3-4 counter-examples that ran contrary to what you were arguing and refuse to admit them as evidence? So now if I'm getting pounded for something, the "group think" is right, but if a number of posters in that thread are disagreeing with you, you still feel you're right and entitled to your opinion, correct? Do you not see why many on the board are upset, without needing confirmation from Chris Rongey that therefore validates their right to be upset or confused? It was funny, in that thread, no one did provide a quote that fit what I asked for - until I did. And even then, everyone forgot that I never said it didn't happen - I said I hadn't seen it. I was questioning the leap being made, seemingly without evidence, since no one provided it. This is what this is all about - the yell and scream crowd. You did it as a perfect example here. So did the people with the OMG THEY ARE FUKEING SALE AROUND WHAT THE HELL ARE THE DOING THEY HAVE NO PLAN OMG WTF BBQ reactions about Sale going to the pen. Have whatever opinion you'd like, but if you make a statement that makes an unfounded leap, then you will gete called on it. That's one of the great things about this board. I knew I'd get called out about Sale, so I just kept asking for proof of inconsistency. I finally found it myself. What you did was the opposite - you made the leap without evidence, and haven't been able to find any evidence the leap has any foundation in reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Viciedo should not see the field against RH pitching right now. Best lineup against righties would be: Fukudome Beckham Dunn Konerko De Aza Rios AJ Ramirez Lillibridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 9, 2012 -> 05:09 PM) Viciedo should not see the field against RH pitching right now. Best lineup against righties would be: Fukudome Beckham Dunn Konerko De Aza Rios AJ Ramirez Lillibridge You want to bench a guy against the vast majority of starters in the league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ May 9, 2012 -> 06:17 PM) You want to bench a guy against the vast majority of starters in the league? He wants to do anything possible to justify KW's firing, and if that means benching a 23 year old against 2/3 of the pitchers in the league in favor of a 35 year old, then he can blame KW when they don't win the division and say that's a reason to fire him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 9, 2012 -> 05:21 PM) He wants to do anything possible to justify KW's firing, and if that means benching a 23 year old against 2/3 of the pitchers in the league in favor of a 35 year old, then he can blame KW when they don't win the division and say that's a reason to fire him. You act like KW's firing would be a bad idea. Why do you want KW to stay around so badly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ May 9, 2012 -> 05:17 PM) You want to bench a guy against the vast majority of starters in the league? He's not ready to hit RH'ers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 9, 2012 -> 06:26 PM) You act like KW's firing would be a bad idea. Why do you want KW to stay around so badly? If management decided he was the best person to start a rebuilding process, then he should get at least 2 years, more likely 3, to develop that rebuilding process. And it certainly shouldn't be sabotaged by putting a 23 year old hitter on the bench out of spite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 9, 2012 -> 05:09 PM) Viciedo should not see the field against RH pitching right now. Best lineup against righties would be: Fukudome Beckham Dunn Konerko De Aza Rios AJ Ramirez Lillibridge I'm all for resting Viciedo against tough RHP, but you do not under any circumstance completely platoon him. Then again, each time you make statements like this, I'm more convinced you are a troll. Your dislike of Viciedo is beyond unreasonable. We're talking about a 23 year old with 209 major league ABs, yet you're already to discard of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 9, 2012 -> 06:27 PM) He's not ready to hit RH'ers. Viciedo has a higher OPS against RH pitchers than Fukudome has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 9, 2012 -> 05:28 PM) If management decided he was the best person to start a rebuilding process, then he should get at least 2 years, more likely 3, to develop that rebuilding process. And it certainly shouldn't be sabotaged by putting a 23 year old hitter on the bench out of spite. Do you want KW around for 2-3 more years to rebuild? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 9, 2012 -> 05:28 PM) I'm all for resting Viciedo against tough RHP, but you do not under any circumstance completely platoon him. Then again, each time you make statements like this, I'm more convinced you are a troll. Your dislike of Viciedo is beyond unreasonable. We're talking about a 23 year old with 209 major league ABs, yet you're already to discard of him. Balta said Viciedo is a 3-year project, we have plenty of time with him. Also, I said "right now" or for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 9, 2012 -> 06:34 PM) Do you want KW around for 2-3 more years to rebuild? I'm not sure...but what I definitely don't want is to start a rebuilding process with 1 guy, fire him for not succeeding, then restart the rebuilding process with another guy who only has 1-2 years before he's fired for not succeeding. That's the losing franchise trap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 9, 2012 -> 05:36 PM) I'm not sure...but what I definitely don't want is to start a rebuilding process with 1 guy, fire him for not succeeding, then restart the rebuilding process with another guy who only has 1-2 years before he's fired for not succeeding. That's the losing franchise trap. Aren't most GM's who are let go in the process of rebuilding? We know the next guy gets more than a year or two so that's not an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 9, 2012 -> 05:34 PM) Do you want KW around for 2-3 more years to rebuild? What the f*** does KW have to do with platooning Viciedo? Sometimes I think you're a very knowledgable fan, but then you go ahead and make some of the most ridiculously biased statements on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 9, 2012 -> 06:41 PM) Aren't most GM's who are let go in the process of rebuilding? We know the next guy gets more than a year or two so that's not an issue. Yes. Hence the problem. They get stuck into rebuilding mode...forever, then the course gets short-circuited because someone decides it's time to win now. Just like you're doing every single post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 9, 2012 -> 05:46 PM) What the f*** does KW have to do with platooning Viciedo? Sometimes I think you're a very knowledgable fan, but then you go ahead and make some of the most ridiculously biased statements on this site. Balta brought KW into the conversation, not me. Blame B! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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