Sale back to the rotation per KW, MRI comes back clean

[ScottyDo]

This makes no sense KW sounds stupid. Put him in a role and LEAVE him there.

Disagree, I think KW comes off as the only person who seems to have a legitimate plan.

 

My take on this -- and many may disagree -- is that this all came down to a failure of leadership on the part of Robin. What I think happened was that in the discussion over Sale's arm, no consensus was reached, which is fine when you have a bunch of smart people. However, you have to come to some sort of decision for AT LEAST the short term before leaving the conference room, and they clearly didn't do that because every single person had a different answer as to what was going on. Coop comes out and says he's perfectly fine and may be back in the rotation, Robin says he's shut down for the year, and KW is mum for the time being.

 

I think KW kept his hands off of this situation in part to see if Robin could handle it on his own, and in part because he doesn't want to seem like he's pulling RV's strings, which, frankly, is the right move. RV should be able to sit down with the experts and DECIDE what's going on in the short term, and get everyone on the same page. That's what leaders do, and -- ostensibly, at least -- RV is the team leader. There was just utterly obvious confusion, and that's when it's incumbent upon someone in a position of responsibility to provide unequivocal direction, even if it ends up being wrong. Eventually, though, KW stepped in and took control, established a firm position and announced it to the press. (Obviously, I'm assuming a lot here, but this is really the only explanation that makes sense to me)

 

Now, you can make the argument that KW has thusfar set Robin up to fail in a few obvious ways, partially by pulling him off the street to manage, and partially by authorizing Coop to take a position of parallel influence with RV. I won't argue with those things. But now that RV is here, it's time for trial by fire. See if Robin can make the tough decisions, risk being wrong and be a leader. I think he deserves a ton of criticism for this, but I also knew there would be a learning period for Ventura. I won't bury him for this, but I sure hope he learns from it.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

When I heard that Sale was going to the bullpen, I assumed it was a precautionary move and temporary. I was really surprised and worried when in the days after the move, it was being talked about as a permanent (at least for the extent of his career on the Sox) change. I'm glad the MRI went well, but it's bizarre how in the course of a few days it went from one extreme to another.

 

The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if Kenny Williams really is on a short leash that would only get shorter if Sale ends up as a reliever. The twelve whole minutes he was given to develop in the Minors could be looked at as a contributing factor (whether it's right or not) to what would be another failed draft pick to top off the litany of failed draft picks from years past. Part II of that scenario would be that Sale as a starter gives the Sox their best chance at winning and being competitive. Without Sale starting, finishing with a respectable record becomes that much harder to do. So I guess the summary of that scenario would be that Kenny is acting in his best interests even if the risks involved aren't anything to sneeze at.

It's hard to imagine that being the case, but with the way the situation has played out to this point, and thinking back to some of the behind the scenes activity that saw the light of day last year, it would be less surprising than it should be.

:shrugs:

[greg775]

It seems to me the fact Sale's agent got involved means Sale was very very pissed at the decision to go to the pen.

Rather than demanding a trade, the agent spoke out and voila ... he's a starter again.

I'm thinking had the stupid decision not been reversed, the next step would have been Sale demanding a trade. Not much of this has made sense. It's "no harm no foul" if he comes right back and has a good outing against the Royals. He obviously was PISSED. And he and his agent handled it pretty well. They shut up until the agent came out with a few comments making it clear the Sox better do what they want.

Edited May 12, 2012 by greg775

[sunofgold]

So did we officially name a closer? sale was the closer and now back into the rotation. Now we need to name our closer. Think RV forgot. oops. hope that it is Reed, Addison!

[flavum]

So did we officially name a closer? sale was the closer and now back into the rotation. Now we need to name our closer. Think RV forgot. oops. hope that it is Reed, Addison!

 

He said it's a matchup thing right now, but that's crap. It'll be Reed.

[sunofgold]

This is awesome. Boers and Bernstein were making fun of Cooper saying that Sale was healthy and they were just checking things out with the mri. Coop was right. B&B were wrong. they though that you had to be injured to get the MRI.

[Jake]

This is awesome. Boers and Bernstein were making fun of Cooper saying that Sale was healthy and they were just checking things out with the mri. Coop was right. B&B were wrong. they though that you had to be injured to get the MRI.

 

I wouldn't want to be quoted on that until we see him remain effective as a starter for a few outings.

[LittleHurt05]

He said it's a matchup thing right now, but that's crap. It'll be Reed.

 

I think it will be too. That being said, I love Robin's quietness about the closer role. In today's age of saves & fantasy baseball, every manager officially names his closer when asked. I enjoy that Robin just acts like he is playing it by ear.

 

 

[sunofgold]

I wouldn't want to be quoted on that until we see him remain effective as a starter for a few outings.

MRI is clean right now. That is all that you can go by. B&B didn't seem to understand the concept of a precautionary MRI. Like being on the cautious side. They believed that only injured players get MRIs. And they were making fun of Coop.

[Marty34]

The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if Kenny Williams really is on a short leash that would only get shorter if Sale ends up as a reliever. The twelve whole minutes he was given to develop in the Minors could be looked at as a contributing factor (whether it's right or not) to what would be another failed draft pick to top off the litany of failed draft picks from years past. Part II of that scenario would be that Sale as a starter gives the Sox their best chance at winning and being competitive. Without Sale starting, finishing with a respectable record becomes that much harder to do. So I guess the summary of that scenario would be that Kenny is acting in his best interests even if the risks involved aren't anything to sneeze at.

It's hard to imagine that being the case, but with the way the situation has played out to this point, and thinking back to some of the behind the scenes activity that saw the light of day last year, it would be less surprising than it should be.

:shrugs:

 

It's almost like they had him take an MRI as a cover to get back in the rotation. Strange how everyone was saying he wasn't injured before he took it.

 

Maybe the plan on how to handle Sale was predicated on this being a rebuilding year. KW sees they have a chance and changes direction. Definitely could be a sign he is on a short leash.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I think it will be too. That being said, I love Robin's quietness about the closer role. In today's age of saves & fantasy baseball, every manager officially names his closer when asked. I enjoy that Robin just acts like he is playing it by ear.

 

This is definitely not true. One, managers don't give a s*** about fantasy baseball. Two, very rarely when a closer goes down, be it due to injury or poor performance, will a manager right away give the title to somebody else. Anybody that participates in fantasy baseball can attest to this.

 

[Heads22]

There's simply no good reason that the closer isn't going to be Addison.

[TaylorStSox]

There's simply no good reason that the closer isn't going to be Addison.

He's obviously the closer of the future. He's the closer now. Maybe they're just trying to bring him along slowly. Maybe they're trying to put him in positions where they feel he has the best chance for success. Maybe he's just being groomed to be a closer for the long term. We're not doing anything this year. Bringing Reed along slowly might be a real good thing.

[caulfield12]

He's obviously the closer of the future. He's the closer now. Maybe they're just trying to bring him along slowly. Maybe they're trying to put him in positions where they feel he has the best chance for success. Maybe he's just being groomed to be a closer for the long term. We're not doing anything this year. Bringing Reed along slowly might be a real good thing.

 

 

They didn't do that a week or so ago when he came into the game in the bottom of the 7th or 8th inning and there was already a runner on 2nd with two outs and the game was tied.

 

At least let him start the 8th or 9th innings, don't put him out there to clean up someone else's mess.

Edited May 12, 2012 by caulfield12

[macsandz]

It is beyond stupid that Reed isn't the damn full time closer. Period.

[caulfield12]

The odds of us coming out of all ALL those four blown saves (and a bunch of other botched tie ballgames in the 7th and 8th) with wins aren't close to 100%, but you'd like to think if Reed was the closer from Day 1 we'd be something like 18-15, or maybe 19-14, because we're getting among the best starting pitching in the AL (3rd in ERA coming yesterday's game, and obviously that went down even more), combined with an improving but slightly below average offense.

 

 

 

“Going into the season, we knew we were going to have to monitor this to a greater degree than we usually do,” general manager Ken Williams said Friday of the decision to switch Sale from reliever to starter. “We know there’s going to be an adjustment period.”

 

That period usually comes in the minors, Williams said, but Sale, the top draft choice in 2010, essentially had no minor-league career.

 

“What complicated things with Chris is we put him in the bullpen for two years,” Williams said.

 

The real complication in the last week seems to have been the team’s initial reaction to Sale’s complaints about discomfort in his elbow.

 

Within days of his start on May 1 in Cleveland, a 7-2 victory, manager Robin Ventura and pitching coach Don Cooper announced Sale was being moved to the closer’s role because a starting job might be too taxing for his arm considering his delivery style.

 

Sale blew a save in his first opportunity May 4 in Detroit, but his psyche might have been the greater casualty.

 

“I truly felt this was something I could do,” Sale said of starting, and he made that clear to Williams in a phone call the day he worked out of the bullpen.

 

“He wants it badly, and I love that about him,” said Williams, whose conversation with Sale brought about the latest change. “I’m really proud because he stood up for himself. When Robin Ventura said he was going to the bullpen, what changed was a Chris Sale phone call to me.”

 

Sale insisted that what initially was thought to be “pain” in his elbow — Williams called it “a red flag” to the team — was more “general soreness.” Sale told Williams, “I can get through this.”

 

“He was adamant. He almost crossed the line,” Williams said. “But the forcefulness he had told us something. It told us he has something extra mentally.”

 

Just as important was the medical exam, which Williams described as “clean.” Sale will start Saturday against the Kansas City Royals.

 

“Everything will be monitored,” Williams said, admitting that Sale might have to be skipped at times, or even put in the bullpen again for brief stays. “We take care of our pitchers, and we’re going to shut you down if there is something that indicates you’re not healthy. We have to do what we have to do to manage him through the season. We may have to do it again [put him in the bullpen], though I hope not.

 

“I don’t care if it causes questions in the rotation. If we have to take him out that day [he is scheduled], we will. He’s more important than that day’s game.”

 

Ventura said he doesn’t envision a problem managing his rotation while managing Sale (3-1, 2.73 ERA).

 

“It’s a unique situation. It’s the same kind of monitoring that was going on before,” Ventura said. “You probably look at it and keep tabs on it a little more.”

 

Ventura and Williams insisted that what seemed ambiguous surrounding Sale’s situation on the outside was never that way internally.

 

Ventura suggested any confusion was because the team was on the road and “people weren’t able to sit down face-to-face. And now we’re [home] and everybody can sit down, get tests done. You see things and talk about it face-to-face.”

 

A defensive Williams said the Sox were only being cautious, as they have been with countless players through the years.

 

“If anyone wants to come after me for being overly cautious, fire away,” he said. “We’re going to take care of this guy. We drafted him [to be] a starter. You don’t want to do anything to compromise his long-term future.”

As for Sale, his thoughts for now are about starting Saturday.

 

“I felt poorly that I set a goal to do this and fell drastically short,” he said. “I felt like I was letting my teammates down and felt like I was depending on other people to pick up my slack. It was disappointing to me not being able to fulfill something I was supposed to do.

 

“They’ve had my best interests in mind since the day I got here. They would rather be too cautious than not cautious enough. They’ve been doing this a really long time, and they’re really good at what they do. I’m more than willing to buy into the program.”

 

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...x-rotation.html

Edited May 12, 2012 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

"What changed was Chris Sale's phone call, saying, 'No, it's not exactly described as pain, it's more general soreness and it's something I've had and I can get through,'" Williams said before the Sox's game with the Royals. "And he was adamant about it to the point where he almost crossed the line, and I liked that.

"When you look at what turns a (pitcher) from a No. 3 guy to a No. 2 or then a No. 1, there's a little extra quality that can be aggravating to some but in my mind it's actually a positive. The forcefulness with which he wanted back on the mound told us some things."

 

So exactly what did Sale say?

 

"Let's just say I really, really thought I could do this," Sale said. "This is something that has been a dream and a passion of mine. I felt I could do this and felt poorly I set a goal and fell drastically short.

 

"I felt like I was letting my teammates down, like I was depending on other people to pick up my slack."

 

The final decision was not made until just before the homestand started Friday after a pre-game meeting of front office, field and medical personnel. An MRI on the elbow already had ruled out any physical damage.

 

Williams scoffed at questions hinting the team didn't know what it was doing with Sale or had had internal disagreements, especially since he made one relief appearance Tuesday.

 

"As a team, we are better (with him) in the starting rotation so it's not about the team," Williams said. "It's about the health of Chris Sale first and foremost.

 

"We had to take extra care to make sure everybody was on the same page and everyone was communicating to the degree that we weren't taxing him with the starter load versus the reliever load."

 

Sale, who has an extreme arm motion, will be monitored closely on pitch counts and may have to change his selection of pitches, which relies heavily on arm-taxing sliders.

 

"Yeah, obviously there are precautions you have to take," Sale said. "Take a little bit different approach to pitching. Whether it's this or that, we don't know yet but we certainly will figure it out.

 

"You throw a lot of sliders it's going to be a little bit harder on your elbow than throwing a fastball. That's just what it is. Obviously we'll have to back off that a little bit. (But) not for one second will I not use it."

 

Said Williams: "We have an agreement with Chris that he will be as honest and truthful with the medical staff as he possibly can be and he'll be honest with himself. You may see him skipped from time to time if he's having any issues at all and it's not with the mindset that that automatically means there's a red flag. We're just trying to get him through his inaugural campaign of starting."

 

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,1950444.story

[NorthSideSox72]

I figured they'd put him back eventually, though I would have expected this "break" in the bullpen to last a little longer. I"m sure they will be keeping an eye on him.

 

The Sox obviously had some message problems in the press on this... but as I said before, not only do I not have a problem with them being super-cautious like this, I think it was a very good thing they were proactive with it. They may not have stated things well, but it was obvious they did the right thing, gave it a little time, came up with a plan B, and are going for it.

 

This is a lesson for Robin in keeping everyone on the same message to the media. If they had all simply said "we are being careful with some soreness and we'll get back to you when we have a direction", then I'd have had no problem with any of it.

 

[Dick Allen]

I made another thread title. 2 in one week. Anyway, KW put it better than I did. (I am still not a KW fan)I have no problem with the White Sox trying to protect one of their young pitchers, especially their best one.

[Kyyle23]

I made another thread title. 2 in one week. Anyway, KW put it better than I did. (I am still not a KW fan)I have no problem with the White Sox trying to protect one of their young pitchers, especially their best one.

 

You're welcome

[Marty34]

At some point the handling of Sale has changed. Before the elbow soreness I believe the plan was if he experiences any discomfort, he's going back to the pen. That's why Ventura made the announcement. KW steps in and says he's back in the rotation, why? It's the right decision given the precarious state of their rotation going forward. Also, I find it difficult to believe Sale was able to say anything to convince KW to make this move. KW made this decision regardless of what Sale said to him.

[Reddy]

At some point the handling of Sale has changed. Before the elbow soreness I believe the plan was if he experiences any discomfort, he's going back to the pen. That's why Ventura made the announcement. KW steps in and says he's back in the rotation, why? It's the right decision given the precarious state of their rotation going forward. Also, I find it difficult to believe Sale was able to say anything to convince KW to make this move. KW made this decision regardless of what Sale said to him.

um. none of this is true.

[Kyyle23]

um. none of this is true.

 

ssshhhh it fits the narrative

[Marty34]

How is it that the plan for handling Sale hasn't changed when the manager announced he'd be the closer, 10 days later he's back in the rotation?

[Dick Allen]

How is it that the plan for handling Sale hasn't changed when the manager announced he'd be the closer, 10 days later he's back in the rotation?

He never closed either. Everyone got punk'd.