Reddy Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 12, 2012 -> 10:00 AM) He never closed either. Everyone got punk'd. no one got punk'd except Robin Ventura. he made a call, too hastily, and it backfired on him. that's all that happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ May 12, 2012 -> 10:02 AM) no one got punk'd except Robin Ventura. he made a call, too hastily, and it backfired on him. that's all that happened. Why do you think he made that call? Perhaps because that was the plan agreed upon before he had elbow soreness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 12, 2012 -> 09:07 AM) Why do you think he made that call? Perhaps because that was the plan agreed upon before he had elbow soreness? sure, but before you make an announcement to the media you should probably talk it over with 1) the pitcher 2) the pitching coach 3) the GM. just seems like that would be logical. I love Robin, and though this was probably his fault more than anyone's, I don't hold it against him because he's just trying to do the right thing. Rookie Manager mistake was all this is. No biggie, since the correct move was finally agreed upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ May 12, 2012 -> 10:36 AM) sure, but before you make an announcement to the media you should probably talk it over with 1) the pitcher 2) the pitching coach 3) the GM. just seems like that would be logical. I'm sure this was discussed by Ventura, Cooper, Sale, and Schnieder before it was announced. It was an easy decision because I believe it was determined this is how it would be handled when they put Sale in the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Or you can believe Cowley that Ozzie and Cooper last year were adamantly against Sale starting, and both thought he would break down sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 12, 2012 -> 10:04 AM) I'm sure this was discussed by Ventura, Cooper, Sale, and Schnieder before it was announced. It was an easy decision because I believe it was determined this is how it would be handled when they put Sale in the rotation. oh my lord. Sale SAID it wasn't discussed. he was TOLD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ May 12, 2012 -> 12:04 PM) oh my lord. Sale SAID it wasn't discussed. he was TOLD. Sale shouldn't have a say in the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 12, 2012 -> 11:12 AM) Sale shouldn't have a say in the decision. 1) apparently our GM feels differently 2) then good luck building a future around the kid when he asks for a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ May 12, 2012 -> 12:14 PM) 1) apparently our GM feels differently 2) then good luck building a future around the kid when he asks for a trade. 1.) The question is why does the GM think that way? 2.) If he asks for a trade he'd have more value than if he blew out his elbow. I agree with the decision to return him to the rotation by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 12, 2012 -> 12:19 PM) 1.) The question is why does the GM think that way? 2.) If he asks for a trade he'd have more value than if he blew out his elbow. I agree with the decision to return him to the rotation by the way. because he's not an idiot, realizes Sale is the one good home-grown thing we've got, and we HAVE to keep him to build around him. and you can't do either if he's in the pen. moot point tho. we're all happy with the endgame, even if how it got there was ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ May 12, 2012 -> 01:37 PM) because he's not an idiot, realizes Sale is the one good home-grown thing we've got, and we HAVE to keep him to build around him. and you can't do either if he's in the pen. KW realizes this team is built to win now. If he's willing to push the envelope with Sale's elbow, wonder if anything is off the table. Might he use Viciedo or even Molina at the trade deadline to add if they are still in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 12, 2012 -> 01:52 PM) KW realizes this team is built to win now. If he's willing to push the envelope with Sale's elbow, wonder if anything is off the table. Might he use Viciedo or even Molina at the trade deadline to add if they are still in it? wha-whaaaa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ May 12, 2012 -> 02:03 PM) wha-whaaaa? Pretty clear the Sox are in win now mode with this Sale move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ May 12, 2012 -> 10:36 AM) sure, but before you make an announcement to the media you should probably talk it over with 1) the pitcher 2) the pitching coach 3) the GM. just seems like that would be logical. I love Robin, and though this was probably his fault more than anyone's, I don't hold it against him because he's just trying to do the right thing. Rookie Manager mistake was all this is. No biggie, since the correct move was finally agreed upon. What is the mistake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 12, 2012 -> 02:10 PM) What is the mistake? making an announcement prematurely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 12, 2012 -> 02:08 PM) Pretty clear the Sox are in win now mode with this Sale move. You can't be serious. The guy was getting huge results starting - you think they pulled him for any reason other than his health? Or that they'd put him back in if they thought he was likely to blow out his elbow? He was too sore, struggled with the upped innings, they gave him a break, Ventura didn't have his coaching staff handle messaing well, Sale wanted back in and the MRI is clean, so now they will put him back in but under tight controls. How is any of that about "win now"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 12, 2012 -> 02:31 PM) You can't be serious. The guy was getting huge results starting - you think they pulled him for any reason other than his health? Or that they'd put him back in if they thought he was likely to blow out his elbow? He was too sore, struggled with the upped innings, they gave him a break, Ventura didn't have his coaching staff handle messaing well, Sale wanted back in and the MRI is clean, so now they will put him back in but under tight controls. How is any of that about "win now"? you just tried to reason with Marty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 12, 2012 -> 01:52 PM) KW realizes this team is built to win now. If he's willing to push the envelope with Sale's elbow, wonder if anything is off the table. Might he use Viciedo or even Molina at the trade deadline to add if they are still in it? This is the part where you got hung up on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 12, 2012 -> 05:13 PM) This is the part where you got hung up on. I know Marty has an agenda, but why do you think this team has no chance to win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) Because if this season was about "long term development," then Sale would be allowed to stay in the bullpen indefinitely. However, since he's NOT, having absolutely nothing to do with what Chris Sale wants and everything to do with Marty's agenda, his "desperate reinsertion" back into the starting rotation is a clear and obvious sign that KW has to get the White Sox to the playoffs or he will be summarily fired. BTW, Marty, nice try with including Molina and Viciedo in trade talks. Try Matt Thornton, Jesse Crain or Hector Santiago instead...a place where we actually do have some depth and can afford to make a trade, should we so choose. Since we don't have a replacement LF other than Lillibridge (and later on Mitchell, but not this year for sure, and Fukudome's not going to last as an everyday play for more than 2-3 weeks, which will then cause Marty to trade away more of our future) and we might be replacing as many as 3 starters in 2013, probably not the smartest move to trade away a young and affordable one since that's now the most valuable commodity in baseball. In fact, if it's so easy to find and develop young 1B/DH/LF types, how does that explain why Justin Smoak, Brandon Belt and Eric Hosmer are taking much longer than anticipated to be league-average hitters? Edited May 12, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 12, 2012 -> 05:17 PM) I know Marty has an agenda, but why do you think this team has no chance to win? I've said it before, but Detroit is a massive favorite. For the Sox to win, they need pretty much everything to go right for them, and everything to go wrong for Detroit. The Tigers should win the central by 10 to 15 games when all is said and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I would say the Indians have a shot, but only if they had a healthy Sizemore in his prime, and a healthy Ubaldo Jimenez. Neither which are remotely close to reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 12, 2012 -> 05:29 PM) I would say the Indians have a shot, but only if they had a healthy Sizemore in his prime, and a healthy Ubaldo Jimenez. Neither which are remotely close to reality. Ubaldo is plenty healthy. He just sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 12, 2012 -> 04:54 PM) Ubaldo is plenty healthy. He just sucks. Okay, well, he's missing about the same MPH off his fastball as Jake Peavy is from 2007-2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 12, 2012 -> 06:17 PM) I know Marty has an agenda, but why do you think this team has no chance to win? Even if the team has a shot to win...they need to treat the season like they don't. The most important thing this team can do this year is set themselves up for next year, by pushing the development of the guys they have as much as possible, moving as much bad money as possible, and figuring out which positions have guys who genuinely need to be replaced. If they happen to accomplish that and wind up competitive in late July/August...fine...we'll adjust things then...but that will mean we've mostly accomplished the "Development" part, because we're not competing if Viciedo and Beckham struggle the whole year and Sale goes down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.