Sale back to the rotation per KW, MRI comes back clean

[Reddy]

No contradiction at all. This team is at the end of its window to win, if it does not there is nothing on the farm to rebuild with and no logical reason for keeping Williams.

SO we should keep him for this year and see how things work out? Give him one last shot? That seems more reasonable. At least you've endorsed keeping Kenny for this year.

 

Headline: Marty Thinks KW Should Stay!

[caulfield12]

Glad Marty was around in 2005 and 2008 proclaiming KW had to win that year or he should be fired.

 

Wait, I've just turned around and given M more ammunition, KW's only won twice in more than a decade with the second most resources in the division (behind the Tigers).

 

Obviously the fans are not "All In" this season, therefore it has to be a rebuilding year because they're certainly not attending games as if they have much in the way of expectations of us competing. Funny how they seem to be voting against your claim with their pocketbooks.

 

[Jake]

lol

[greg775]

No contradiction at all. This team is at the end of its window to win, if it does not there is nothing on the farm to rebuild with and no logical reason for keeping Williams.

 

Beckham is the guy who might get Kenny fired.

He looks like a bust.

Morel quite frankly doesn't look like a major league starting third baseman cept for defense.

And Flowers is no everyday stud catcher.

But Beckham is the guy that really is making Kenny look bad IMO. Kenny apparently survived the Rios acquisition which was all-time bad, but Jerry appears to have forgiven him for that one. Our young talent in the major and minor leagues cept for some pitching is really really mediocre to bad.

Edited May 14, 2012 by greg775

[fathom]

Why would Beckham get Kenny fired? It was a great pick, one that supposedly everyone in the organization was thrilled to see. There's a gigantic difference between making a logical move only for it to not work out (ie: Beckham drafted, Dunn signed to fill DH spot) and making a move that makes no sense to anyone and having it work out pretty much like everyone expected it to (ie: Hudson trade, very possibly the Santos trade also).

[Steve9347]

Why would Beckham get Kenny fired? It was a great pick, one that supposedly everyone in the organization was thrilled to see. There's a gigantic difference between making a logical move only for it to not work out (ie: Beckham drafted, Dunn signed to fill DH spot) and making a move that makes no sense to anyone and having it work out pretty much like everyone expected it to (ie: Hudson trade, very possibly the Santos trade also).

Manny trade was epic-fail. Peavy deal had all the warning signs and then-some. Let's not forgive how hamstrung we've been because of that trade simply due to Peavy's amazing month to start the season 3 years later.

[greg775]

Why would Beckham get Kenny fired? It was a great pick, one that supposedly everyone in the organization was thrilled to see. There's a gigantic difference between making a logical move only for it to not work out (ie: Beckham drafted, Dunn signed to fill DH spot) and making a move that makes no sense to anyone and having it work out pretty much like everyone expected it to (ie: Hudson trade, very possibly the Santos trade also).

 

Cause he's a first-round bust.

You make good points about it being a logical pick, but he turned out to be a dime a dozen second baseman. Good field, no hit. He's not through yet, but close to being deemed a total bust.

[southsider2k5]

Cause he's a first-round bust.

You make good points about it being a logical pick, but he turned out to be a dime a dozen second baseman. Good field, no hit. He's not through yet, but close to being deemed a total bust.

 

We have had enough first round busts that Gordon Beckham isn't going to be the reason that Kenny gets fired. It will be if he can't get the machine moving again as he tries to rebuild. If this stalls in a couple of years, then Kenny gets fired.

[Texsox]

Manny trade was epic-fail. Peavy deal had all the warning signs and then-some. Let's not forgive how hamstrung we've been because of that trade simply due to Peavy's amazing month to start the season 3 years later.

 

What we don't know his how insulated Kenny was from those decisions. Was he the only one wanting those moves or the only one against? Or could they have been ones where "we're all agreed on this"? There are ways in every organization to take risks and not be fired if they don't work out. In fact many organizations (I'm not saying necessarily teams) encourage some risk taking in new products, new directions.

 

But you are correct if Kenny went out on the limb and strongly advocated those moves and was the main driver, he would be in a weak position.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Why would Beckham get Kenny fired? It was a great pick, one that supposedly everyone in the organization was thrilled to see. There's a gigantic difference between making a logical move only for it to not work out (ie: Beckham drafted, Dunn signed to fill DH spot) and making a move that makes no sense to anyone and having it work out pretty much like everyone expected it to (ie: Hudson trade, very possibly the Santos trade also).

 

Outside of Buster Posey, the first half of that '08 draft is looking awful. Pedro Alvarez has crushed my prospect spirit. Tim Beckham hasn't sniffed the majors yet. Brett Wallace is somewhere in the world getting traded again. Hosmer is hitting .194 or some s*** like that. Brian Matusz is an abomination. Justin Smoak is garbage. Yuck.

[Steve9347]

Outside of Buster Posey, the first half of that '08 draft is looking awful. Pedro Alvarez has crushed my prospect spirit. Tim Beckham hasn't sniffed the majors yet. Brett Wallace is somewhere in the world getting traded again. Hosmer is hitting .194 or some s*** like that. Brian Matusz is an abomination. Justin Smoak is garbage. Yuck.

That draft seemed so legit at the time, too. T. Beckham is 22 now with a rocking .568 OPS in AAA.

[Harry Chappas]

Imagine how good Tampa would be if they had hit on that pick.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Imagine how good Tampa would be if they had hit on that pick.

 

That's like their one f*** up since Friedman took over. I read something at a Tampa blog a year or so ago that the only two other players they considered other than Beckham were Alvarez and Posey. Alvarez wouldn't have made much sense with Longoria at 3B and just about ready to hit the bigs, though I guess they could've shifted him (Alvarez) over to 1B eventually. Could you imagine them with Posey? Dayum.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Jordan4life

[Kyyle23]

Tim Beckham was also busted for using a "drug of abuse" this year, which was his second violation and has him sitting for a while.

[Balta1701]

Tim Beckham was also busted for using a "drug of abuse" this year, which was his second violation and has him sitting for a while.

That means something other than a PED right? So he's a #1 draft pick of the Rays who is struggling because of a drug problem?

 

For God's sake, grab this guy if he's ever available in the rule 5 and make him hang out with Floyd or Humber or someone like that.

[Kyyle23]

That means something other than a PED right? So he's a #1 draft pick of the Rays who is struggling because of a drug problem?

 

For God's sake, grab this guy if he's ever available in the rule 5 and make him hang out with Floyd or Humber or someone like that.

 

Yes, not a PED. Weed, coke, meth. He was doing something.

 

And yea, another #1 Rays pick struggling with drugs.

[jenksycat]

Cause he's a first-round bust.

You make good points about it being a logical pick, but he turned out to be a dime a dozen second baseman. Good field, no hit. He's not through yet, but close to being deemed a total bust.

 

His "good points" completely refute your claim that Beckham will get KW fired.

[Marty34]

That's like their one f*** up since Friedman took over. I read something at a Tampa blog a year or so ago that the only two other players they considered other than Beckham were Alvarez and Posey. Alvarez wouldn't have made much sense with Longoria at 3B and just about ready to hit the bigs, though I guess they could've shifted him (Alvarez) over to 1B eventually. Could you imagine them with Posey? Dayum.

 

I read that the Angels thought the Nationals were going to take going to take Trout before he got to them, instead they took Storen. Imagine Harper and Trout in the same outfield.

[Reddy]

Outside of Buster Posey, the first half of that '08 draft is looking awful. Pedro Alvarez has crushed my prospect spirit. Tim Beckham hasn't sniffed the majors yet. Brett Wallace is somewhere in the world getting traded again. Hosmer is hitting .194 or some s*** like that. Brian Matusz is an abomination. Justin Smoak is garbage. Yuck.

Hosmer's fine. his peripherals suggest he'll bounce back still this year. But the rest of that class... yeah... lots of untapped potential.

[caulfield12]

The Royals announcers have stopped counting the sheer number of line drives hit at fielders...and then it starts to snowball, you start to press and get out of your normal game, like it did with Swisher in 2008.

 

A year ago, you would have said Hosmer was the sure thing and that Moustakas looked incredibly shaky, more like Alex Gordon when he first came up than a perennial All-Star. Now things have almost completely reversed, although Hosmer's at least hit some dingers and collected some RBI's.

[Reddy]

The Royals announcers have stopped counting the sheer number of line drives hit at fielders...and then it starts to snowball, you start to press and get out of your normal game, like it did with Swisher in 2008.

 

A year ago, you would have said Hosmer was the sure thing and that Moustakas looked incredibly shaky, more like Alex Gordon when he first came up than a perennial All-Star. Now things have almost completely reversed, although Hosmer's at least hit some dingers and collected some RBI's.

and WALKED. that's the key. once that BABIP starts climbing, Hosmer will be a force yet again.

[chisoxfan09]

Bumping this thread with a good article from Steve Rosenbloom of the Trib. He describes Sale's pitch count ballooning shortly after the back to the bullpen fiasco where they flip-flopped on whether he would stay there long term. Good read on his mechanics and what the future may hold for him if he exceeds a certain amount of innings.

 

Link: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosen...,7758583.column

 

Article:

 

I love what Chris Sale did to Tampa Bay on Monday. I have no idea how the White Sox let him do it.

 

The young, left-handed starter torched a first-place Rays team for 15 strikeouts, one short of the team record and the most in that silly building that is embarrassing even for Bud Selig’s Major League Baseball.

 

Sale’s masterful performance works out to 10 pitches per K. That’s 115 pitches. How do the Sox let him throw 115 pitches?

 

How did the Sox go from a starter with a tender arm to making Sale the closer after a weekend off to returning him to the rotation to letting him throw 115 pitches?

 

Sale underwent an MRI recently that showed no damage. He has won his last three starts. Great, but he was still feeling something in his arm to spark the Keystone Sox’s conflicting talk and confusing changes that led to the X-ray. The Sox said they were moving Sale to the bullpen because they wanted to take the long view of his career. There’s no reason to think they would do otherwise then or now.

 

So how does this guy get to 115 pitches?

 

And how does he throw that many sliders?

 

Sale said the slider was the pitch putting the strain on his arm, or at least, the number of sliders he was throwing caused discomfort. He seemed intent on throw more fastballs since the MRI, but Sunday, the slider was his out pitch 11 of the 15 times.

 

So, it was back to greater demands on that whippy left arm attached to that spindly body. After Monday, Sale has thrown 57 2/3 innings this season, which is about two good starts from topping the career-most 71 he threw last season. That would leave Sale with more than a half-season to go when every inning is a career best for a guy who had some kind of arm issue already.

 

I’m not a doctor and I don’t play one on the web, but how does that guy throw 115 pitches in May?

 

Smart or not, Sale had no doubt he was going out there for the eighth inning.

 

“I felt just as good,’’ Sale said. “Obviously, the situation dictated going out there and giving everything you've got left. I talked to Jake Peavy in the seventh. He said, ‘Hey, your pitch count is up there, leave it all out there.’ I felt I did that.’’

 

Listening to Peavy is part manning up and part playing on the expressway.

 

Peavy’s attitude is all about winning the next pitch and the one after that and the one after that. It’s the kind of attitude you want from everyone on your team.

 

Peavy’s attitude also is crazed. It needs to be reined in or sat on, take your pick. Peavy and now apparently Sale need a babysitter.

 

Peavy’s 2011 season died after he volunteered his surgically repaired right shoulder muscle to pitch four innings of relief in June. Peavy’s July was awful, his August was bad, and he was done before September was over.

 

It wasn’t Peavy’s fault. Blame Ozzie Guillen and Don Cooper. A guy like Peavy needs an adult in charge. And if a grown man needs that, then a kid like Sale certainly needs a chaperone.

 

Sale’s health is vital for now and the future. That’s especially true with John Danks on the disabled list because of a shoulder problem while the Sox find themselves in contention for the AL Central.

 

Say this for the Sox, though: They have a history of keeping pitchers healthy and making them better. Sale appears to be a particularly acute project in that regard.

 

Maybe Sale is too young to know the difference between pain and injury, thus requiring a reassuring MRI. Maybe everybody fell on the grenade for him, creating some laughable excuses for decisions. Maybe Sale can handle more than he thinks, which seems to be the way the Sox approached the experiment Monday.

[Harry Chappas]

That article makes no sense. Does he want him to start or doesn't he?

[Jake]

10 pitches per K = 115 ???? Only if he struck 11.5 hitters

 

I didn't even want to read the rest, honestly

[Jake]

Blaming Peavy's poor finish last year to that relief appearance: stupid. Peavy likes to push it, but you really can't attribute any of his problems to that (at least not definitively). The author also completely ignores Chris's pre-professional innings -- while they don't guarantee that he'll be durable this year, he paints a picture of Chris Sale as a lifetime relief pitcher who has never racked up innings...which is not true. He also seems to be overblowing the difference between pitch counts he hasn't criticized (I know he's been at 105) and 115 from yesterday. You don't want to have him average that many pitches by any stretch, but an instance of it in a historically good game is not that big of a deal.

 

Basically, this article is s***. He hand selects facts that make his point look better and then suddenly seems to make no point at all. It lacked focus and brought no new information forward. I want my life back.