Sale back to the rotation per KW, MRI comes back clean

[flavum]

A 23 year old, under team control, should never be in charge of his own career. He's employed by the Sox. How they choose to use him is their prerogative.

 

I think in this case, Sale should have some say. I mean, he was drafted as a starter. He signed early and cheap to get to the big leagues. The plan was for him to eventually start. He was told on the last day of the season last year, to prepare for starting. He did that. He was successful in five starts, and he experienced soreness. Ok, so was this normal starting pitcher soreness? Or my elbow ligament is about to snap soreness? Where's the MRI? Where's the pitch count or innings limit?

I just think in this case, Sale has the right to do what he wants.

[ptatc]

Wait, he has a knee problem?

I'm sure he meant UCL for ulnar collateral ligament.

 

For what it's worth, here is my take on what's happening based on all of the information out there and from people I know in MLB.

 

Sale's elbow has been sore. It's seems mostly muscular not ligamentous (UCL). The Sox staff (Cooper, Schneider, KW) are all worried about his mechanics and workload. There is heavy skepticism that he can last a full year starting with his mechanics. So do you want a part time starter or a full time reliever? It looks like they are going to decrease his workload by having him start for awhile then be in the bullpen for awhile then go back to starting.

If you are worried about structural damage such as the UCL, this would be a horrible idea as the constant work out of the bullpen would mostly cause more damage. However from a muscle development aspect it's not a bad idea. The other option is to put him in the minors and slowly build up his arm with skipping start as I believe it was Balta advocated. However I think the Sox value his arm too much at the MLB level.

This whole process of a part time starter is out of the box thinking which is why it creating such an controversy. However, from a purely physical point of view, it's different, but makes sense.

[ptatc]

No one has said its impossible to do that - obviously it happens. Dempster did it too, if I recall correctly. Its just hard to do and expect success with it, especially for a young player who, in my view, looks like a stick figure and lacks a lot of muscle. What it did was, increase the risk (a lot) of this happening, Heck, its not like I was the only one saying this would likely happen during the year, lots of others did as well. It just happened earlier than many would have guessed.

The variable here are his mechanics. Dempster and Lowe had fairly good mechanics and no one doubted they could start. I think the Sox have doubts he can do this even with the "normal" conditioning and they are being ultra-conservative with the elbow tenderness.

[RockRaines]

I love PTATC

 

Secondly, if it is his UCL, let him f***ing tear it while he's in his early 20's to get it out of the way now IMO. Maybe thats the wrong way to think but if you want the kid to have a career, shielding him from a predictable starter's load doesnt seem smart to me. The kid is an excellent starting pitcher as well, very valuable.

[southsider2k5]

Thanks for the drop in P.

[justBLAZE]

Actually I Cooper said yesterday that Sale has good mechanics Let me find it.

[JorgeFabregas]

WHAT QUOTES? No one has posted a quote from the SOX (not a writer's tweeted interperetation) that says its permanent. If someone finds one, great. Show me. All I've said from the beginning is, I have yet to see that.

 

The ONE QUOTE that talks about permanence or not, from the Sox, is the Cooper one saying "never say never" and "for now", which clearly say nothing of permanent.

I haven't found a direct quote, but Van Schouwen wrote that Ventura said exactly that

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/12406447-57...s-to-start.html

And he might get another shot this season, even though manager Robin Ventura had said his move to the bullpen would be for the rest of the season.

[justBLAZE]

Cooper dismissed the notion that Sale’s mechanics aren’t suited for the rigors of starting.

 

“No, no, no, there were no concerns about that,’’ Cooper said.

 

“If you don’t have a good delivery, you can’t throw strikes. And Chris Sale is a strike-throwing machine. He has a good delivery.’’

 

And can he start?

 

“Right now, he’s in the pen,’’ Cooper said, ‘‘and we’ll continue to watch him. And who knows what we do?’’

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...e-to-start.html

 

This article.

 

For the record I trust PTATC and the only beef I have with all this is the Sox keep I saying: "I don't know, we will see, who knows what happens" just seems like they dont have a plan.

Edited May 9, 2012 by justBLAZE

[Jake]

My dad called me (I don't get CSN) and said that somebody on Tribune Live was talking about the unbelievable amount of attention the training staff had to give Sale's arm between starts. They said the amount of work he needed done to get ready was what you might expect for a guy at the very end of the season, or perhaps not at all. Said the only comparable White Sox was Mark Buehrle at the end of last year, who apparently was hanging by a thread.

[knightni]

Wait, he has a knee problem?

There's an ACL on your elbow.

 

[Reddy]

I love PTATC

 

Secondly, if it is his UCL, let him f***ing tear it while he's in his early 20's to get it out of the way now IMO. Maybe thats the wrong way to think but if you want the kid to have a career, shielding him from a predictable starter's load doesnt seem smart to me. The kid is an excellent starting pitcher as well, very valuable.

agreed one thousand percent

[southsider2k5]

Cooper dismissed the notion that Sale’s mechanics aren’t suited for the rigors of starting.

 

 

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...e-to-start.html

 

This article.

 

For the record I trust PTATC and the only beef I have with all this is the Sox keep I saying: "I don't know, we will see, who knows what happens" just seems like they dont have a plan.

 

The "plan" is to see how he responds to a lesser workload. They dont' know what the results will be, which is why Sale's status is up in the air.

[Steve9347]

Cooper just said "don't be surprised if Addison Reed closes tonight if we have a lead" on XM radio, via 670 boys.

[southsider2k5]

JIM BOWDEN ‏ @JimBowdenESPNxm

 

Don Cooper PCCH of the White Sox told us that Sale only has soreness/ stiffness & are going to continue to discuss his role in a couple days

[flavum]

And Sale will get an MRI as well. So that's good. I hope it's clean, and he can go back to starting.

[Balta1701]

And Sale will get an MRI as well. So that's good. I hope it's clean, and he can go back to starting.

There's really no way that "The kid throwing again then going for an MRI" is good.

[flavum]

There's really no way that "The kid throwing again then going for an MRI" is good.

 

Sure there is. It's what they should have done last week before they moved him to the pen.

 

Again, we don't know if this is normal starting pitcher soreness, or if he has structural damage. So it's good they're going to take a look, and make an informed decision.

[NorthSideSox72]

Ranger just said that Cooper told him, on-air, that it was permanent for the rest of the season... a few days ago. That's the smoking gun I was looking for. So while the reactions on here and in some parts of the media are still hilariously overreactive, it appears it is true that the Sox gave one signal earlier, and are giving another now. I was wrong on that one.

 

[ptatc]

<!--quoteo(post=2595027:date=May 9, 2012 -> 08:46 AM:name=Balta1701)-->

<!--quotec-->Wait, he has a knee problem?

There's an ACL on your elbow.

 

There isn't an ACL in the elbow. There is an UCL, the ulnar collateral ligament on the inside of the elbow and an RCL or radial collateral ligament on the outside of the elbow. Although the old terminology for each is MCL and LCL for medial and lateral collateral ligaments which is similar to the knee terminology. There are no cruciate ligaments in the elbow.

[ptatc]

Cooper dismissed the notion that Sale’s mechanics aren’t suited for the rigors of starting.

 

 

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...e-to-start.html

 

This article.

 

For the record I trust PTATC and the only beef I have with all this is the Sox keep I saying: "I don't know, we will see, who knows what happens" just seems like they dont have a plan.

Mechanics are always a debate. I would say his are questionable just like I've always said I didn't like Strasburg or Prior's, although for different reasons. However, many people will disagree with me as there are many schools of philosophy when it comes to mechanics. Cooper really doesn't subscribe to a theory of mechanics. He mostly talks about the theory of pitching and how to get pitchers to throw strikes within their own mechanics. I don't think you will ever hear Cooper truly discuss mechanics or how to change them.

Edited May 9, 2012 by ptatc

[ptatc]

And Sale will get an MRI as well. So that's good. I hope it's clean, and he can go back to starting.

MRI's really don't show as much as people think. They are good for inflammation and fluid but aren't really accurate by themselves. As I tell my students MRI means More Radiographic Income. They are a piece to the puzzle but usually aren't as accurate as the physical exam.

[Reddy]

Ranger just said that Cooper told him, on-air, that it was permanent for the rest of the season... a few days ago. That's the smoking gun I was looking for. So while the reactions on here and in some parts of the media are still hilariously overreactive, it appears it is true that the Sox gave one signal earlier, and are giving another now. I was wrong on that one.

will you stop. it's not a hilarious overreaction to say that taking our starter of the future and putting him permanently in the bullpen without a DL stint, MRI, or looking to trade him, was a horrible, horrible decision in every baseball sense.

[southsider2k5]

will you stop. it's not a hilarious overreaction to say that taking our starter of the future and putting him permanently in the bullpen without a DL stint, MRI, or looking to trade him, was a horrible, horrible decision in every baseball sense.

 

You have no idea what is going on in the training room. How can you classify it as good, bad, or anything?

 

 

[Reddy]

You have no idea what is going on in the training room. How can you classify it as good, bad, or anything?

SO DL HIM WHILE YOU FIGURE EVERYTHING OUT!

 

don't just publicize to the world "hey we think his arm's gonna fall off!"

[Reddy]

You have no idea what is going on in the training room. How can you classify it as good, bad, or anything?

PLUS. Chris was just as confused and blindsided as we were. That doesn't seem right to me.