Sale back to the rotation per KW, MRI comes back clean

[caulfield12]

Merkin/Rongey in rain delay...to summarize

 

 

Sox will decide on Sale after meetings on Friday and/if the MRI comes up clean.

 

KW is deferring to Ventura and the coaching staff, hasn't e-mailed anyone in the media since last FRI in DET.

 

Ventura seems to be the one who is most adamant about Sale NOT starting and being in the pen this year. Obviously, RV doesn't want to be responsible for a career-threatening injury when Sale just doesn't have enough strength built up in the past 2-3 seasons...hasn't pitched 100+ innings, etc.

 

Cooper and Sale are more on the side of him starting, and of course Cooper's going to support what Chris wants as his position coach.

 

Used the examples of Bard and Feliz being backed off and/or put back in the pen this year as well.

 

Everyone is confused and wondering why they announced that the move to the bullpen was "permanent" last Friday but now there's backtracking again.

 

Ventura either speaks directly about an issue or refuses to speak entirely, so that's leading to part of the confusion.

 

KW has basically said his plan was to bring Sale up to the big league club quickly as a member of the bullpen, then put him in the rotation when Mark Buehrle left (assuming he had the foresight to know they weren't going to keep Buehrle back in mid 2010 when the team was in 1st place).

Edited May 9, 2012 by caulfield12

[2nd_city_saint787]

Sooo from what ive gathered it looks like whats best for him is to work in the rotation for a few weeks and then the bullpen??? kinda like with p90x where you have recovery week after 3 weeks??

[fathom]

If it is truly muscular it makes all the sense in the world. Throwing 20 pitches 3 times per week will not fatigue the muscle as much as 100 pitches at one time. Mechanically it fewer times throwing the slider with fatigued muscles.

 

Awesome stuff, thank you

[southsider2k5]

http://www.csnchicago.com/baseball-chicago...rce=twitterfeed

 

Cooper insists Sale is healthy

May 10, 2012, 11:29 am

 

JJ STANKEVITZ

csnchicago.png

 

"Chris Sale is healthy. Chris Sale is fine. Chris Sale is going to be pitching."

 

That's the point Don Cooper hammered home on an appearance on the Mully and Hanley Show on WSCR-670 AM (full audio here) when the hosts persisted in asking him about Sale's condition. Cooper admitted Sale's elbow has been sore, but then argued the Sox wouldn't have pitched him in a game had he been hurt.

 

The timing of the MRI was a good question -- as in, why wasn't it done immediately after Sale experienced soreness/tenderness/tightness -- to which Cooper said he didn't need one right away. His MRI on Thursday is described as "routine," as in, pitchers and players get these all the time. Bill Melton added credence to the idea of a "routine MRI" on last night's edition of White Sox Postgame Live, saying players get MRIs for "pretty much anything" at this point.

 

Another interesting note from Cooper was that the White Sox never had a discussion about putting Sale on the disabled list, even though he went a week without pitching between his last start and first relief appearance. It had been suggested and rumored by some that the Sox should've/were thinking about shelving Sale for 15 days to see if his arm heals, but per Cooper, that wasn't an option.

 

Even though Cooper insists Sale is perfectly fine, it's going to be a nervous couple of hours waiting for a report on the results of Sale's MRI. The first step is making sure Sale's healthy, the second is deciding where he should wind up. Cooper didn't sound married to the idea of Sale staying in the bullpen, only saying that "as of this minute" Sale was a reliever.

 

Lastly, Cooper confirmed that Eric Stults will start Saturday against Kansas City (that slot had previously been TBA). While Stults had decent results against Cleveland (6 IP, 2 ER), he walked as many batters as he struck out (4) and owns a 4.86 ERA in 163 career innings.

 

Barring a major turnaround, the Sox may have to scramble to find a suitable fifth starter if Sale ultimately does stay in the bullpen. If the Sox convene and decide to move him back to the rotation, though, that's a big problem solved.

[LVSoxFan]

I'm getting worried now after hearing about how other coaches/players see his pitching motion and start counting down the days to the inevitable surgery.

 

I've heard that before...

[hi8is]

Me want more information!

[DirtySox]

Like a concerned parent, agent BB Abbott is worried about the manner in which the White Sox have handled Chris Sale recently.

 

"In short, yes I am extremely concerned about the way the White Sox have approached this entire situation with Chris and his future," Sale's agent Abbott wrote late Wednesday night in an email. "It is his future, isn't it?"

 

And isn't this supposed to be a transition year for the Sox, with a greater influx and reliance on younger players to ease the eventual departure of several veterans?

 

As inconsistent and as unpredictable as the Sox have been, general manager Ken Williams might be able to postpone his traditional June threats of breaking up the team after underachieving starts. This club has aspirations of contention.

 

Thus in addition to addressing Sale's situation, Williams might have every reason to preach patience as the season unfolds when he addresses reporters Friday.

 

Sale had an MRI on Thursday to help determine if his left elbow tenderness is a more serious problem. When the results are revealed, the club must address his role on the staff. Presumably Sale, and some in the hierarchy, believe he should be returned to the rotation while others think he should be in the bullpen.

 

It's only six weeks into the regular season, but the prohibitive favorite Tigers haven't shown any signs of running away with the American League Central title yet. The Sox have proven that the Indians and their plethora of left-handed hitters are vulnerable, especially against left-handers such as the mercurial John Danks and Sale.

 

"There's no doubt we could be on the other side of six decisions so far, and all of a sudden we're (above) .500 and not in third place," said reliever Matt Thornton, who accepted blame for contributing to two losses on the just-completed 3-4 trip. "But there are so many things you can look at that could have gone your team's way. Every team can do that.

 

"It's early May, and we're still trying to find consistency and that hot streak. We haven't had a great streak yet, and it's fun to be a part of and look to it."

 

Veterans Jake Peavy, Alex Rios and Adam Dunn have taken care of their own business with impressive rebound starts, but this was supposed to be part of the Sox plan while nurturing youth.

 

Instead, from the clumsy handling of Sale to the struggles of third baseman Brent Morel, the Sox been have murky about their younger players since the final two weeks of spring training when they gloated about the secrecy of their closer — which happened to be rookie Hector Santiago until he lost that distinction, at least temporarily, last week.

 

It's understandable that the Sox will experience growing pains with youngsters like Santiago and even Morel, whose productive September masked some of his overall struggles in 2011.

 

But it's dangerous for Sox management to confuse talents like Sale and others who deserve to be treated like columns of their foundation instead of a revolving door.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,6441843.story

Edited May 11, 2012 by DirtySox

[caulfield12]

Pretty strong words from Gonzales there in that last sentence of his columns. He's usually not so pointed in his commentary.

 

 

[Soxfest]

Pretty strong words from Gonzales there in that last sentence of his columns. He's usually not so pointed in his commentary.

Isn't this nice pub right before the June draft!

Edited May 11, 2012 by Soxfest

[caulfield12]

Doubt the White Sox will be drafting another razor thin/questionable mechanics but great stuff JC pitcher who could either end up a starter or reliever, lol.

[The Ginger Kid]

Clearly this has not been handled perfectly, neither from a personnel standpoint nor from a press relations perspective. Funny to see Gonzalez characterize the Sox' non-announcement of a closer as them gloating "about the secrecy of their closer." Sounds like a beat writer feeling stung.

 

But I'm willing to give KW the benefit of the doubt on this one and say he didn't foresee problems with Sale adjusting to the new role, certainly not this soon.

 

He was effective but his velocity was down. Then he started having some soreness. The pain got worse, the Sox reacted quickly, pulling him from the rotation. Sale's feelings aside, I support the move. Yes, the whole MRI thing seems a bit bungled, as does the plan for this season and beyond with one guy saying one thing and another saying something else. Happens when you get blindsided.

 

[winninguglyin83]

MRI was today. Anybody leaking anything out?

[ptatc]

Doubt the White Sox will be drafting another razor thin/questionable mechanics but great stuff JC pitcher who could either end up a starter or reliever, lol.

He wasn't a JC pitcher.

[Balta1701]

Doubt the White Sox will be drafting another razor thin/questionable mechanics but great stuff JC pitcher who could either end up a starter or reliever, lol.

That's exactly what everyone spent years asking for the Sox to do.

[Jake]

That's exactly what everyone spent years asking for the Sox to do.

 

What they meant was, "draft a perennial all-star"

[hogan873]

This whole thing seems very strange. Someone is not saying something. He gets taken down from the rotation and is said to be the closer. Then when he's ready to pitch (a full week since his last outing) he pitches in the eighth inning, not the ninth. Then we hear very contradictory remarks from the Sox. "He'll be in the bullpen the rest of the season", "Well, maybe not", "He will start again"... Then there's the much talked about MRI. What were the results? Or will we hear different stories about that, too?

 

One thing is for sure (to me anyway). There is certainly something wrong with his arm, whether it's general soreness or a significant injury. He was cruising right along as a starter, and the first we hear of him having any issues is after he's moved to the bullpen. I have a bad feeling that there's something more wrong with his arm than just soreness.

[southsider2k5]

This whole thing seems very strange. Someone is not saying something. He gets taken down from the rotation and is said to be the closer. Then when he's ready to pitch (a full week since his last outing) he pitches in the eighth inning, not the ninth. Then we hear very contradictory remarks from the Sox. "He'll be in the bullpen the rest of the season", "Well, maybe not", "He will start again"... Then there's the much talked about MRI. What were the results? Or will we hear different stories about that, too?

 

One thing is for sure (to me anyway). There is certainly something wrong with his arm, whether it's general soreness or a significant injury. He was cruising right along as a starter, and the first we hear of him having any issues is after he's moved to the bullpen. I have a bad feeling that there's something more wrong with his arm than just soreness.

 

That's not true. He had issues, and then was moved to the pen.

[justBLAZE]

[/b]

 

That's not true. He had issues, and then was moved to the pen.

 

True but I think pittshoganerko basing it off the fact that they moved him, let him pitch and THEN send him for an MRI.

 

[hogan873]

True but I think pittshoganerko basing it off the fact that they moved him, let him pitch and THEN send him for an MRI.

Right. But, the news came out that he was moved to the closer role because of some soreness issues. Maybe I don't have the timeline correct, but it seemed like we heard about his arm issues when he was moved.

[bighurt574]

The whole thing is bizarre. I'm glad Sale's agent is speaking up. The guy should be a starter.

 

I have no idea if this had anything to do with Sale's elbow issues, but I was surprised to see such a high pitch count from him right out of the gate -- 100, 102, 110, and 101 in his first four starts. Seems like he should be the 5th starter this year, skip him every once in a while, and watch his pitch count. There's really no need to send him to the minors to transition to a starter, he's going to have to throw those same pitches whether he's in the majors or minors, might as well be here since he gets people out, just use him a little more wisely.

Edited May 11, 2012 by bighurt574

[caulfield12]

Look for the White Sox to allow him to adjust to his new workload if the tenderness constitutes normal post-start/pitching soreness. If it becomes pain, then his starting days will be over again. The White Sox want to give themselves the best chance to win in the short term, but they also want Sale healthy for the short and long term.

 

As for Reed, he should have been the closer since the start of the season and he probably will be the closer now. That's no offense meant toward Hector Santiago, who worked his way from the roster bubble to the ninth inning during a stellar Spring Training, and I think he will be a solid starter someday and contribute plenty presently in the bullpen. It's certainly no offense meant to Matt Thornton or Jesse Crain, who rank as two of the game's elite setup men when healthy, and will continue to make a significant difference in the seventh and eighth innings.

 

Even Scott Merkin in the White Sox mailbag at chisox.com is predicting Sale will be back as a starter if he passes the MRI that for some reason's taking forever to be released...

[southsider2k5]

Look for the White Sox to allow him to adjust to his new workload if the tenderness constitutes normal post-start/pitching soreness. If it becomes pain, then his starting days will be over again. The White Sox want to give themselves the best chance to win in the short term, but they also want Sale healthy for the short and long term.

 

As for Reed, he should have been the closer since the start of the season and he probably will be the closer now. That's no offense meant toward Hector Santiago, who worked his way from the roster bubble to the ninth inning during a stellar Spring Training, and I think he will be a solid starter someday and contribute plenty presently in the bullpen. It's certainly no offense meant to Matt Thornton or Jesse Crain, who rank as two of the game's elite setup men when healthy, and will continue to make a significant difference in the seventh and eighth innings.

 

Even Scott Merkin in the White Sox mailbag at chisox.com is predicting Sale will be back as a starter if he passes the MRI that for some reason's taking forever to be released...

 

It sounded like Kenny was supposed to hold a presser today on the topic, so I am guessing it will be in the hours before the ball game.

[Jerksticks]

Ok I've never heard of teams doing this but is it possible that they are?

 

2012- Bullpen sandwiched between 5 starts at the beginning and end of the season- total 10 starts

2013- Bullpen sandwiched between 8-10 starts at the beginning and end of the season- total 20 starts

2014- All starts, 32 or whatever.

 

This would adequately stretch his inning total over the next few years, but is it a dangerous way to treat an arm? I kinda like it if it works and isn't too dangerous lol.

[Reddy]

Ok I've never heard of teams doing this but is it possible that they are?

 

2012- Bullpen sandwiched between 5 starts at the beginning and end of the season- total 10 starts

2013- Bullpen sandwiched between 8-10 starts at the beginning and end of the season- total 20 starts

2014- All starts, 32 or whatever.

 

This would adequately stretch his inning total over the next few years, but is it a dangerous way to treat an arm? I kinda like it if it works and isn't too dangerous lol.

they honest to god don't know WHAT they're doing. there's no secret plan. they're all flying by the seat of their pants and it's idiotic.

[Dick Allen]

they honest to god don't know WHAT they're doing. there's no secret plan. they're all flying by the seat of their pants and it's idiotic.

Both Feliz in Texas and Bard in Boston have started and relieved this year. Add Texas and Boston to the stupid organizations list. The only thing idiotic is you thinking you have this all figured out without any of the information. The White Sox want Chris Sale to pitch for them, not rehab, and don't go thinking if he blows out his elbow he'll be fine in a year. Its possible, its also possible he turns out like Liriano, who is now back in the pen for Minnesota because of ineffectiveness.

 

PTAC, the guy on this site who probably knows more about this type of thing than anyone here, says the Sox are doing the correct thing. You may mention Sale's agent, but Sale's agent is going to side with Sale. If Sale wanted to relieve, he would be upset if the Sox kept him in the rotation.