Dunn will play LF during interleague

[Dick Allen]

If Dunn gets hurt playing LF, there will be calls for Ventura's head.

[Dick Allen]

Vicido has been fine defensively in LF. The problem is De Aza is not a CF'er. The only Sox CF'er who I can remember playing as deep as De Aza was Griffey, Jr. and he was 39 at the time.

Its laughable you think Viciedo is fine defensively and De Aza is not.

[Marty34]

Its laughable you think Viciedo is fine defensively and De Aza is not.

 

You need to watch a game now and again, Dick.

[Dick Allen]

You need to watch a game now and again, Dick.

I do. I may think less of KW than you do, but you let your agenda cloud your judgement. You can't have a total success story on the White Sox. You can't blast

De Aza's offense, so you have to blast his defense, and all the advanced saber stats have him above average at the moment. I know there is a sample size issue, but De Aza after really struggling, has played a decent CF the past few weeks. Tank is very shaky as could be expected in LF.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Dick Allen

[greg775]

If Dunn gets hurt playing LF, there will be calls for Ventura's head.

 

Maybe, but if Jerry and the investors were against it, they'd prolly tell Kenny and he'd put a stop to it.

I'm really down on Viciedo. Just another Sox off to a slow start in his career.

I guess it's natural (look at KC's Hosmer now sucking) but it is disappointing that Tank sucks so far.

[Marty34]

I do. I may think less of KW than you do, but you let your agenda cloud your judgement. You can't have a total success story on the White Sox. You can't blast

De Aza's offense, so you have to blast his defense, and all the advanced saber stats have him above average at the moment. I know there is a sample size issue, but De Aza after really struggling, has played a decent CF the past few weeks. Tank is very shaky as could be expected in LF.

 

De Aza is a LF'er playing CF. He covers the gaps at the expense of letting balls drop in front of him. He's a stopgap who's best position would be a 400 AB corner OF.

[LittleHurt05]

If Dunn gets hurt playing LF, there will be calls for Ventura's head.

 

More like "If Dunn doesn't get in the lineup twice at Wrigley, there will be calls for Ventura's head." 7 of the 13 hitters on your roster are hitting below .200. You must do everything you can to keep your 2nd best bat in the lineup.

[Jordan4life_2007]

More like "If Dunn doesn't get in the lineup twice at Wrigley, there will be calls for Ventura's head." 7 of the 13 hitters on your roster are hitting below .200. You must do everything you can to keep your 2nd best bat in the lineup.

 

This. This version of Dunn was the version you threw $56 million at. Interleague play my ass. You keep his bat in the lineup at any cost.

[southsider2k5]

He has played 270 career minor league games at CF (the most out of every other position) and was a -16. (LF +7) He certainly had his drops/misplays back then, but he was much better (range wise) at LF. I liked him alot when he was playing for the Hammerheads. But unless the sox trust Rios at CF again, or if they stopped dicking around with Viciedo's development at a position for 3 years (I was adamant on Tank playing RF for years), he would be much more tolerable. I have no idea what people here were expecting, and admittedly, I haven't watched much sox games this year due to work (so no idea what his UZR looks like this year, or from the eye test so I'm going by what posters like fathom and others say) but if he's still the same guy I saw/remember back in 06-07, he will be serviceable in CF. (but he is a much better LF)

 

I was expecting Carlos Lee as a rookie, and that is pretty much what we have gotten.

[ScottyDo]

De Aza is a LF'er playing CF. He covers the gaps at the expense of letting balls drop in front of him. He's a stopgap who's best position would be a 400 AB corner OF.

...you're saying that a CF with a 123 OPS+ batting leadoff full-time should be a platoon corner OF? Why? Please give evidence.

[caulfield12]

De Aza is a LF'er playing CF. He covers the gaps at the expense of letting balls drop in front of him. He's a stopgap who's best position would be a 400 AB corner OF.

 

 

How many "pure/stellar" defenders are there in CF who put up an OPS in the 800+ range?

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/pos.../OPS/order/true

There are 24 "qualified" players right now in MLB. DeAza's OPS is 9th.

 

I would think we should worry FIRST about the positions where we are getting below average production, relative to that position.

 

Clearly, that's Morel, Viciedo (LF, there are 3 qualified players under 600), Alexei Ramirez (24/25) and Beckham.

 

Morel's LAST in all of the majors, and he's 71 OPS points behind Danny Valencia, who has been sent down already. You go from 423 to 542 to get the NEXT (2nd to worst) player above Brent, and that's Scott Rolen.

 

Then you have Gordon Beckham, 20th out of 24 at a 600 OPS (and you live with him because of his upward trend until recently offensively and his D).

 

Worrying about limiting DeAza to 400 at-bats when we need to get him 600+ and limiting Dunn's AB's because of his defense in LF. We just don't have those luxuries.

 

If it comes down to it, they almost have to move Viciedo or Dan Johnson to 3B and play the other in LF to mask Morel's overall ineptitude, unless they trade for another 3B as a stop-gap (assuming they're ready to give up on Morel for 2012 and perhaps beyond).

 

We all kind of expect Alexei Ramirez and probably Viciedo to turn it around. We can't win with four black holes and Rios/AJ both trending downwards. We've got to get at least average or solid contributions from 7 places in the line-up.

Edited May 15, 2012 by caulfield12

[Marty34]

...you're saying that a CF with a 123 OPS+ batting leadoff full-time should be a platoon corner OF? Why? Please give evidence.

 

He can't play CF and he can't hit lefties. Let him put up that OPS at a corner OF spot.

[Kyyle23]

Maybe, but if Jerry and the investors were against it, they'd prolly tell Kenny and he'd put a stop to it.I'm really down on Viciedo. Just another Sox off to a slow start in his career.

I guess it's natural (look at KC's Hosmer now sucking) but it is disappointing that Tank sucks so far.

 

LMAO what? You think Jerry and his investors make on-field decisions?

[Jake]

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...ieldingadvanced

 

You'd think if De Aza was THAT bad, his UZR would be suffering from those misplays.

[chw42]

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...ieldingadvanced

 

You'd think if De Aza was THAT bad, his UZR would be suffering from those misplays.

 

De Aza's not bad at all. He has his misplays (like last night), but he has very good range for a CFer. Putting him in a corner would be a waste of his speed.

[fathom]

De Aza's not bad at all. He has his misplays (like last night), but he has very good range for a CFer. Putting him in a corner would be a waste of his speed.

 

Where is this range? I've seen a few people mention this, but I feel like he's really struggled defensively. One of the biggest issues I've seen with his defense is that he plays so damn deep, so when there's a liner hit in front of him, he has a real difficult time keeping the ball in front of him due to having to run in so fast to try and keep it. It's caused a few singles to turn into doubles and triples this year.

[Marty34]

He plays so deep many times his first step or two is in that's how he got burned last night.

[Balta1701]

He plays so deep many times his first step or two is in that's how he got burned last night.

So if he played shallow...he'd have gotten to that ball over his head?

[caulfield12]

He plays so deep many times his first step or two is in that's how he got burned last night.

 

 

90% of our outfielders are better coming in rather than playing shallow and going back for anything hit over their heads. (See Edmonds, Jim).

 

Rios was atrocious at that.

 

Hopefully it's something he can improve on over time. For right now, he's our best option.

 

And it's not like it's 100% automatic he would put up such good numbers against RHP if he sat against all LHP. There's something about playing everyday, the confidence of knowing your name will be in the line-up when you get to the ballpark no matter what, which you can't underestimate. Would Dunn be hitting so well overall if RV had benched him from the beginning of the season against all LHP and given those at-bats to Lillibridge? I think not. Sometimes statistics do not just exist in a vacuum.

 

And you can't assume Brent Lillibridge will hit 12 homers again in limited at-bats just because he did it one season, which looks like it might turn out to be something of an anomaly in his career stat line.

 

 

[Jake]

It's difficult for us to evaluate our defense, especially outfielders, when we miss the first part of every play they have. The camera takes away our ability to see what their jump looked like, save for amazing plays and misreads.

[Marty34]

So if he played shallow...he'd have gotten to that ball over his head?

 

If you are uncomfortable playing center, you play deeper.

 

[Balta1701]

If you are uncomfortable playing center, you play deeper.

If he was a better CF, he'd play more shallow. If he played more shallow, he'd have had that much farther to go back to get to that screaming line drive Fielder hit last night, and probably still not gotten it, just not looked as bad while doing it. Therefore, he should play more shallow so we can criticize his range rather than his positioning.

[Marty34]

If he was a better CF, he'd play more shallow. If he played more shallow, he'd have had that much farther to go back to get to that screaming line drive Fielder hit last night, and probably still not gotten it, just not looked as bad while doing it. Therefore, he should play more shallow so we can criticize his range rather than his positioning.

 

It's clear that you are ok with him in CF. I am not.

[southsider2k5]

It's clear that you are ok with him in CF. I am not.

 

Now what did I do with my shocked face...

[Balta1701]

It's clear that you are ok with him in CF. I am not.

I can live with De Aza's mistakes in CF and hope they will decrease with time and experience in the ballpark. He has the tools to grow into an average CF there, and he's flat out continuing to hit. If he's going to cost us a game or two with a misplay, I'd rather have it be this year than next year, and if he doesn't improve...he's hitting well enough to offset those mistakes.