Sox vs Twins 5/22 game thread 7:10 first pitch

[caulfield12]

Strongly worth considering, imo.

 

 

And what exactly are we going to get back for Gavin Floyd? You wanted to trade Viciedo 2 weeks ago, now Gavin Floyd coming off tonight's performance will net us what?

 

He's a fairly or perhaps underpaid innings-eater who has some of the best stuff in the game, but will never be consistent. He will put up a 3.75-4.50 ERA in all likelihood. But the "demand" side of the pitching market hasn't emerged yet...and won't for another 2-3 weeks, at a minimum, when teams can start to more realistically assess their playoff chances.

 

 

Zach Stewart a few times out of the bullpen pitching well in MOSTLY meaningless situations....good luck with him as a starter.

 

There's a reason he had a 7.88 ERA as a starter against every team NOT NAMED THE MINNESOTA TWINS last season.

 

I don't remember anyone clamoring for DJ Carrasco to be a 5th starter and he had better numbers at the major league level than Zach Stewart.

 

 

[iamshack]

I don't know why I can't tolerate Gavin, but I just wish he were gone...he does to me what Contreras used to do to Hawk in 2004...

[caulfield12]

Caufield, for all the opium-induced bulls*** you post here, it pissed me off when you refer to a serious post I make with "LOL."

 

I could probably make quite a few comments to your posts that reply to something about hitting and end up discussing Turkish bathhouses...

 

 

Then you certainly have the freedom to put ME on ignore, too.

 

Other than Marty or Dick Allen, I rarely fight with anyone here, and I've never personally attacked anyone as you are doing to me.

 

But if it feels better to get it out of your system on a message board, better than kicking the dog I suppose.

[iamshack]

And what exactly are we going to get back for Gavin Floyd? You wanted to trade Viciedo 2 weeks ago, now Gavin Floyd coming off tonight's performance will net us what?

 

He's a fairly or perhaps underpaid innings-eater who has some of the best stuff in the game, but will never be consistent. He will put up a 3.75-4.50 ERA in all likelihood. But the "demand" side of the pitching market hasn't emerged yet...and won't for another 2-3 weeks, at a minimum, when teams can start to more realistically assess their playoff chances.

 

 

Zach Stewart a few times out of the bullpen pitching well in MOSTLY meaningless situations....good luck with him as a starter.

 

There's a reason he had a 7.88 ERA as a starter against every team NOT NAMED THE MINNESOTA TWINS last season.

 

I don't remember anyone clamoring for DJ Carrasco to be a 5th starter and he had better numbers at the major league level than Zach Stewart.

 

What is his ERA this season? This is the first time we've played the Twins.

 

I know he's had a few games where he's let inherited runners score and the game get broken open, but he's also been lights-out in a few of his outings as well.

 

What are we going to win this year with Gavin? What is his 180 IP of 4.25 ERA baseball going to get us?

 

I'd rather deal him for a few prospects and give Stewart a shot at getting comfortable in the rotation and moving forward. He's arguably just as important to this team at this point as Floyd is, considering he's going to be traded or walk into FA.

[Jake]

Zach Stewart a few times out of the bullpen pitching well in MOSTLY meaningless situations....good luck with him as a starter.

 

There's a reason he had a 7.88 ERA as a starter against every team NOT NAMED THE MINNESOTA TWINS last season.

 

Not a fair way to evaluate given sample size.

 

I don't remember anyone clamoring for DJ Carrasco to be a 5th starter and he had better numbers at the major league level than Zach Stewart.

 

Stewart is younger and much more talented. Are you watching this game?

[iamshack]

Then you certainly have the freedom to put ME on ignore, too.

 

Other than Marty or Dick Allen, I rarely fight with anyone here, and I've never personally attacked anyone as you are doing to me.

 

But if it feels better to get it out of your system on a message board, better than kicking the dog I suppose.

Oh give me a break...do you really think I am serious about that opium addiction of yours?

 

Several people give you a hard time about your rambling, and I've stuck up for you more than you know, trust me.

[Dick Allen]

Stewart has done his job this year. He got lit up earlier in the year in one outing and against the Cubs he was doing what he was supposed to be doing up 7, not getting cute. I don't know if you'd want him in the rotation, but I really can't understand the hate.

[fathom]

Excellent outing by Stewart tonight

[iamshack]

Stewart has done his job this year. He got lit up earlier in the year in one outing and against the Cubs he was doing what he was supposed to be doing up 7, not getting cute. I don't know if you'd want him in the rotation, but I really can't understand the hate.

He got beat up in that extra inning game Santiago blew against the Orioles as well.

 

By and large, he's been pretty solid.

[caulfield12]

Not a fair way to evaluate given sample size.

 

 

 

Stewart is younger and much more talented. Are you watching this game?

 

 

Okay, here's the thing.

 

What's our likelihood of being an above .500 team next year with 2 of the following (Stewart/Axelrod/Doyle) as the back end of our rotation?

 

All three of those guys are pretty similar, "command and control" guys who rely on movement, location and changing speeds.

 

Right now, Molina and Castro are a LOT further away from making the big league rotation in 2013 than they were 2 months ago.

 

Hernandez is the one guy who's stepped up consistently for the Barons, and he profiles the same way because of his lack of dominating stuff and a mesmerizing strikeout pitch. That's why Santiago should be starting to give them another option...although the odds are Hector would be in the low 90's as a starter. Johan Santana-Lite?

 

 

Edited May 23, 2012 by caulfield12

[Steve9347]

Then you certainly have the freedom to put ME on ignore, too.

 

Other than Marty or Dick Allen, I rarely fight with anyone here, and I've never personally attacked anyone as you are doing to me.

 

But if it feels better to get it out of your system on a message board, better than kicking the dog I suppose.

Don't take it personally, iamshack is throwing darts to multiple targets this evening. Conversation turns to attacks.

[iamshack]

Okay, here's the thing.

 

What's our likelihood of being an above .500 team next year with 2 of the following (Stewart/Axelrod/Doyle) as the back end of our rotation?

 

All three of those guys are pretty similar, "command and control" guys who rely on movement, location and changing speeds.

 

Right now, Molina and Castro are a LOT further away from making the big league rotation in 2013 than they were 2 months ago.

 

Hernandez is the one guy who's stepped up consistently for the Barons, and he profiles the same way because of his lack of dominating stuff and an a strikeout pitch.

You really don't see any difference in the stuff of Stewart, Axelrod, and Doyle?

[iamshack]

Don't take it personally, iamshack is throwing darts to multiple targets this evening. Conversation turns to attacks.

How about the time you accused people that appreciate Hawk of being cavemen, Stevotown?

Edited May 23, 2012 by iamshack

[caulfield12]

You really don't see any difference in the stuff of Stewart, Axelrod, and Doyle?

 

 

I've been a White Sox fan since the late 70's/early 80's.

 

I've seen enough of those types come around to know that the odds of them becoming the next Greg Maddux are pretty remote. (And evidenced by the fact that we didn't protect Doyle).

 

Maybe Zach Stewart has found a new amount of movement with his sinker and other pitches that he wasn't getting in the 92-94 MPH range. I don't know.

 

It's possible...Contreras' stuff always moved much better when he "underthrew" it and concentrated more on command and location. Then again, in his prime, he could just aim at the general vicinity of the plate when he had a 95-97 MPH heater and the forkball and hitters wouldn't stand a chance, despite only really using two pitches the entire game.

[Jake]

Okay, here's the thing.

 

What's our likelihood of being an above .500 team next year with 2 of the following (Stewart/Axelrod/Doyle) as the back end of our rotation?

 

All three of those guys are pretty similar, "command and control" guys who rely on movement, location and changing speeds.

 

Right now, Molina and Castro are a LOT further away from making the big league rotation in 2013 than they were 2 months ago.

 

Hernandez is the one guy who's stepped up consistently for the Barons, and he profiles the same way because of his lack of dominating stuff and an a strikeout pitch.

 

 

Everyone relies on movement, location, and changing speeds - see Gavin Floyd for more details.

 

I don't know what the likelihood is other than we seem to have several potential candidates for the rotation...Stewart/Axelrod/Doyle/Quintana/Castro/Molina/reclamation projects

 

I would say we have backed off the projections on Molina at this point, but not Castro. Castro has actually showed some command, peripherals look much better this year. I'm excited for him.

 

Anyways, I'm not eager to trade Floyd, but Stewart is by no means value-less as a potential MLB starter.

[iamshack]

I've been a White Sox fan since the late 70's/early 80's.

 

I've seen enough of those types come around to know that the odds of them becoming the next Greg Maddux are pretty remote. (And evidenced by the fact that we didn't protect Doyle).

 

Maybe Zach Stewart has found a new amount of movement with his sinker and other pitches that he wasn't getting in the 92-94 MPH range. I don't know.

 

It's possible...Contreras' stuff always moved much better when he "underthrew" it and concentrated more on command and location. Then again, in his prime, he could just aim at the general vicinity of the plate when he had a 95-97 MPH heater and the forkball and hitters wouldn't stand a chance, despite only really using two pitches the entire game.

Stewart has incredible movement on his fastball every other game or so it seems...I am not sure what causes it, or what causes it not to move, but I sure hope we are trying to figure that out.

[fathom]

Nice job managing by Ventura tonight. Hudson looked shaky on that first play at 3rd, which is to be expected.

[Quin]

Well, Hudson can play third. There's that.

[Jake]

Stewart has incredible movement on his fastball every other game or so it seems...I am not sure what causes it, or what causes it not to move, but I sure hope we are trying to figure that out.

 

Tough to have your sinker coming out of the bullpen

[fathom]

It's hard to judge how Stewart would fare as a starter based on how he pitches in a 9-1 game. He's doing a good job in his long reliever role, but any notion of starting him based on these innings is hard to get behind.

[Quin]

WHY CAN'T WE HIT THIS MOTHERf***ER.

[2nd_city_saint787]

He got beat up in that extra inning game Santiago blew against the Orioles as well.

 

By and large, he's been pretty solid.

 

 

That Orioles game is the other one he was talking about just to clarify so you dont think it was 3 outings he got roughed up when it was just 2.

 

heres what happened in that orioles game too

 

Z Stewart relieved H Santiago.

M Reynolds safe at third on error by center fielder A De Aza.

C Davis doubled to deep left, M Reynolds scored.

R Andino reached on infield single to third, C Davis to third.

N Reimold singled to left, C Davis scored, R Andino to second.

J Hardy reached on bunt single to first, R Andino to third, N Reimold to second.

N Markakis grounded into fielder's choice to first, R Andino out at home, N Reimold to third, J Hardy to second.

A Jones struck out swinging.

M Wieters homered to right (361 feet), N Reimold, J Hardy and N Markakis scored.

R Paulino grounded out to second.

 

just some bad luck. If hector didnt blow the save it woulda never got to him anyway

[fathom]

That wasn't bad luck for Stewart against the Orioles. They were hitting him extremely hard, despite De Aza forgetting how to catch a fly ball. Hopefully this is the last game we have to watch EE play for a while. He tries hard at the plate, he just isn't a big league caliber hitter right now.

Edited May 23, 2012 by fathom

[Jake]

That wasn't bad luck for Stewart against the Orioles. They were hitting him extremely hard, despite De Aza forgetting how to catch a fly ball.

 

Disregarding error, bunt single, infield single

[iamshack]

It's hard to judge how Stewart would fare as a starter based on how he pitches in a 9-1 game. He's doing a good job in his long reliever role, but any notion of starting him based on these innings is hard to get behind.

My point is Gavin Floyd's 180 IP of 4.25 ERA baseball is probably not going to win us anything while he remains under contract with us.

 

Other teams could use those innings, however, and will likely trade us 1-2 decent prospects for him, while providing some salary relief.

 

Meanwhile, you let Stewart start and see what he does...the chances of it having any kind of negative impact this season or next are probably not terribly significant.

 

Then you're not sitting here wondering going into next year or 2014 what you have with him.