It must be said - Hawk Harrelson has to go

[southsider2k5]

If you had to speak to the worst MLB commissioner ever, what Hawkisms would you use?

 

Except Hawk loves Bud. His head must have exploded.

[Balta1701]

You won't get any disagreement from me regarding the call. But umpires are going to make bad calls; they're human. A little griping by a broadcaster is fine...the broadcasters are human too. But that doesn't mean MLB has to deal with broadcasters using this particular forum to let the entire viewing audience know their personal opinions on the competency of the umpires.

 

The point is, there are legal actions Selig could take here.

I totally agree that there are actions he "Could" take, there's just very little he'd be motivated to do over anti-umpire ranting, because acting against a team's broadcaster in a way that would strongly punish him would be a major new action from MLB, and I don' tthink they'd be willing to do that

[BigSqwert]

I'm sure some sort of suspension would take place if Hawk went off on the air again.

[iamshack]

I totally agree that there are actions he "Could" take, there's just very little he'd be motivated to do over anti-umpire ranting, because acting against a team's broadcaster in a way that would strongly punish him would be a major new action from MLB, and I don' tthink they'd be willing to do that

Ok then...I guess we can sit here and speculate til the end of time what actions they "could" or "would" take.

 

I'm just telling you what rights the Commissioner has the legal right to take.

[Greg Hibbard]

The sad thing about all this is that the discussion on this umpire incident is entirely about Harrelson, because of the way he reacted, instead of the fact that the umpire clearly wronged the White Sox unfairly to the extent it could have cost them a game.

[ScottyDo]

The sad thing about all this is that the discussion on this umpire incident is entirely about Harrelson, because of the way he reacted, instead of the fact that the umpire clearly wronged the White Sox unfairly to the extent it could have cost them a game.

I think everyone's pretty well in consensus on that point. I haven't heard anyone defend the ump's decision. I don't even think most of us have a huge problem with AJ getting drilled since he went spikes-up and all that, but it was crystal clear that warnings should have been issued after he got plunked.

[Greg Hibbard]

I think everyone's pretty well in consensus on that point. I haven't heard anyone defend the ump's decision. I don't even think most of us have a huge problem with AJ getting drilled since he went spikes-up and all that, but it was crystal clear that warnings should have been issued after he got plunked.

 

I'm not talking about the discussion here - I'm talking about the discussion in the media.

[southsider2k5]

The sad thing about all this is that the discussion on this umpire incident is entirely about Harrelson, because of the way he reacted, instead of the fact that the umpire clearly wronged the White Sox unfairly to the extent it could have cost them a game.

 

Actually this incident got WAY more publicity because of Hawk. Most people outside of the Chicago market probably found out about it through his rant.

[Greg Hibbard]

Actually this incident got WAY more publicity because of Hawk. Most people outside of the Chicago market probably found out about it through his rant.

 

But what is the focus...the umpire or Harrelson's outburst?

Edited June 1, 2012 by Greg Hibbard

[The Gooch]

But what is the focus...the umpire or Harrelson's outburst?

 

How come this is the first outburst that has become national attention? Hawk has had several similar rants on umpires in the past few years.

[southsider2k5]

But what is the focus...the umpire or Harrelson's outburst?

 

Doesn't matter. It is the difference between most people having no idea this happened, or a decent amount of people knowing.

[Jake]

The piece of s*** Chicago Tribune Live had no idea why Hawk would be mad outside of being a White Sox fan. That show is hard to watch for baseball discussion.

[Greg Hibbard]

Doesn't matter. It is the difference between most people having no idea this happened, or a decent amount of people knowing.

 

Yes, a lot of people know Harrelson went off. They probably have no idea about what.

 

I wish that the media would talk more about why the umpiring sucked and not about Selig and Reinsdorf needing to rein in Harrelson.

 

Our team has had several incidents over the last 5 years where we've gotten plunked twice and then we're ejected when we try to retaliate.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Greg Hibbard

[southsider2k5]

Yes, a lot of people know Harrelson went off. They probably have no idea about what.

 

I wish that the media would talk more about why the umpiring sucked and not about Selig and Reinsdorf needing to rein in Harrelson.

 

Our team has had several incidents over the last 5 years where we've gotten plunked twice and then we're ejected when we try to retaliate.

 

Come back to reality. No one (outside of the CSN's of the world) would have talked about it if it wasn't for Hawks rant.

[Greg Hibbard]

Come back to reality. No one (outside of the CSN's of the world) would have talked about it if it wasn't for Hawks rant.

 

I feel like we are talking in circles.

 

Am I missing an article where MLB actually commented on the umpire and the situation, or ANYONE talked about the actual call, or is it just about Hawk?

[ScottyDo]

I'm not talking about the discussion here - I'm talking about the discussion in the media.

I mean, it's not going to be a national discussion, but in terms of local media, everyone agrees that it was a bad decision by the umpire, too. At least on The Score. Even B&B, notorious mockers of Hawk's, think the ump should have issued warnings after the AJ plunking.

[Cerbaho-WG]

The second that Selig ceases to be commissioner, the better off MLB will be. The game might actually get full instant replay one of these decades. Plus the ASG will go back to the meaningless piece of trash that it should be.

[Greg Hibbard]

I mean, it's not going to be a national discussion, but in terms of local media, everyone agrees that it was a bad decision by the umpire, too. At least on The Score. Even B&B, notorious mockers of Hawk's, think the ump should have issued warnings after the AJ plunking.

 

And whether or not Hawk went off, it would have been a discussion in local media. It was a terrible, terrible call that had a major impact on a game.

 

I'm still failing to understand how Hawk's rant brought attention to this call. This call was horrible, with or without Hawk's rant, and would have been talked about locally with or without Hawk's rant, because it could have cost us that win (and maybe even should have).

 

Hawk's rant brought attention to Hawk's rant, and seemingly gave MLB a way to talk around this issue.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Greg Hibbard

[iamshack]

And whether or not Hawk went off, it would have been a discussion in local media. It was a terrible, terrible call that had a major impact on a game.

I think the reason it is being discussed more for the rant and not the quality of the umpire's call is because this is the Hawk Harrelson thread and not a thread about that game or that particular call.

 

I'm not trying to be a dick, just trying to answer your question...

 

As to what the media is focusing on, Harrelson freaking out is obviously a bigger story than an umpire missing a call, whether that be to a local audience or a national audience.

Edited June 1, 2012 by iamshack

[Greg Hibbard]

I think the reason it is being discussed more for the rant and not the quality of the umpire's call is because this is the Hawk Harrelson thread and not a thread about that game or that particular call.

 

I'm not trying to be a dick, just trying to answer your question...

 

I get why it's being discussed in terms of Hawk here, in this thread. (I don't think you're being a dick, btw).

 

The umpire's call isn't seemingly being discussed enough at a level where that discussion will have any meaning, and that really bothers me, and I feel MLB is treating it as a corollary to a typical Hawk sideshow because of Hawk's personality and track-record.

[Greg Hibbard]

As to what the media is focusing on, Harrelson freaking out is obviously a bigger story than an umpire missing a call, whether that be to a local audience or a national audience.

 

That's a good point, but inconsistency in umpiring on this particular point has been a major issue for years.

[iamshack]

That's a good point, but inconsistency in umpiring on this particular point has been a major issue for years.

I think that is because it is usually reactionary...I think the umpires in the series may have been briefed to take caution because of the events that took place in Boston between the Rays and the Red Sawks...then you get an increased awareness and a sensitivity that might not normally exist during normal conditions...

[caulfield12]

It's always going to be a "reasonable" judgement call, though.

 

Umpire supervisor Charlie Reliford was there at the game and immediately said no warnings needed to be thrown if the pitch was deemed intentional, which it clearly was.

 

The problem, of course, is that it was just as obvious with the AJ plunking that it was quid pro quo retaliation for the spiking, and Beckham had already been hit...so you just HAVE to issue a warning at that point.

 

Either issue the warning there, or with Quintana. But the code of baseball all players, broadcasters and managers go by is that you don't kick out pitchers in the modern game unless they just go after someone's head or deliberately look like they're trying to injure someone.

 

You can also make an argument that Howell threw the ball directly into DeAza intentionally, although that would be much harder to prove/justify if you're the ump after the game. I'm not even sure that anyone in baseball history has been run for throwing at an opposing baserunner in the history of the sport. Maybe?

Edited June 1, 2012 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

I feel like we are talking in circles.

 

Am I missing an article where MLB actually commented on the umpire and the situation, or ANYONE talked about the actual call, or is it just about Hawk?

 

MLB isn't going to comment. It is their policy not to do so. But having people notice how bad something is, will get change made.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

I think that is because it is usually reactionary...I think the umpires in the series may have been briefed to take caution because of the events that took place in Boston between the Rays and the Red Sawks...then you get an increased awareness and a sensitivity that might not normally exist during normal conditions...

So then the umps should have had increased awareness and sensitivity to the Rays hitting De Aza in one of the previous games, then Beckham, then AJ in the finale. Instead, they seemed to only have increased sensitivity to Quintana throwing behind but entirely missing Zobrist on a pitch below the waist. And after all this, De Aza got hit in the knee at 2B.

 

The umps were clearly wrong in their handling of all this.

 

EDIT: Can someone refresh my memory -- Did AJ spike Zobrist at 2B before or after De Aza got plunked by a Rays pitcher? I can't remember exactly the order of events but could AJ's dirty slide been in retaliation for their guy hitting De Aza?

Edited June 1, 2012 by South Side Fireworks Man