It must be said - Hawk Harrelson has to go

[BigSqwert]

After all Sabermetrics is largely a gimmick too.

 

You're probably the same person who thinks climate change is false because it was really cold one morning when you woke up. Never mind the evidence from 99.99% of the scientific community.

[iamshack]

Hawk's interview was beyond stupid, I didn't find it funny. It's actually sad that a major league broadcaster is that ignorant.

 

A gimmick? Uh, no. Gimmicks aren't used by front offices and managers to help determine the future of their franchise.

I'm not getting the connection between the tagline and the FO actually using this as some sort of measurable?

 

Obviously there are some psychological traits professional athletics target, but I'm not seeing any evidence that our FO actually targets one or another more than any other professional sports franchise...maybe I am missing something here though?

[southsider2k5]

Hawk's interview was beyond stupid, I didn't find it funny. It's actually sad that a major league broadcaster is that ignorant.

 

A gimmick? Uh, no. Gimmicks aren't used by front offices and managers to help determine the future of their franchise.

 

But they are used as motivational tools, both for fans and players.

[iamshack]

Somehow I don't think "Dumb and Dumber" would work as a tagline, lol.

Hah, no. My point is that we're basically stuck with Hawk as a mouthpiece for the team at this point...maybe I am wrong, but I am viewing this as Brooks making the best of the situation and sort of running with the acronym tongue and cheek...perhaps I am just giving them too much credit though?

[Marty34]

Hawk's interview was beyond stupid, I didn't find it funny. It's actually sad that a major league broadcaster is that ignorant.

 

A gimmick? Uh, no. Gimmicks aren't used by front offices and managers to help determine the future of their franchise.

 

It's largely a gimmick. I don't need WAR to tell me Miguel Cabrera is a great hitter.

[Marty34]

You're probably the same person who thinks climate change is false because it was really cold one morning when you woke up. Never mind the evidence from 99.99% of the scientific community.

 

I think Sabermetrics have their place in evaluation, but seamheads have overstated theiir value.

[IlliniKrush]

I'm not getting the connection between the tagline and the FO actually using this as some sort of measurable?

 

Obviously there are some psychological traits professional athletics target, but I'm not seeing any evidence that our FO actually targets one or another more than any other professional sports franchise...maybe I am missing something here though?

No, obviously not saying FO uses TWTW or anything like that. The point is the the FO uses sabermetrics, especially Hahn, to make up the team, and you have your broadcaster talking about how silly and irrelevant it is, and the marketing staff waving that flag of TWTW. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. There's such a disconnect.

 

But they are used as motivational tools, both for fans and players.

I don't think the TWTW shirts do a lot of motivating for the players.

[IlliniKrush]

It's largely a gimmick. I don't need WAR to tell me Miguel Cabrera is a great hitter.

Well that couldn't be further from the truth. Tell that to a GM or a good manager like Joe Maddon who's all about the numbers, matchups, probabilities, etc.

 

They aren't made to tell you who's an MVP type hitter, cmon now.

[iamshack]

No, obviously not saying FO uses TWTW or anything like that. The point is the the FO uses sabermetrics, especially Hahn, to make up the team, and you have your broadcaster talking about how silly and irrelevant it is, and the marketing staff waving that flag of TWTW. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. There's such a disconnect.

 

 

I don't think the TWTW shirts do a lot of motivating for the players.

Well, to your first paragraph, I hope most people aren't taking this that seriously...the way I interpreted it was us poking a bit of fun at ourselves...

 

As to the bolded, a lot sillier things have managed to motivate teams before...

[Marty34]

Hah, no. My point is that we're basically stuck with Hawk as a mouthpiece for the team at this point...maybe I am wrong, but I am viewing this as Brooks making the best of the situation and sort of running with the acronym tongue and cheek...perhaps I am just giving them too much credit though?

 

I'm sure the Sox are a little perturbed hearing over and over again in the local media about how the great Theo Epstien and his "proprietary information" can do no wrong. They need to franchise that publicly positions themselves against sabremetrics for that reason alone.

[Balta1701]

I'm sure the Sox are a little perturbed hearing over and over again in the local media about how the great Theo Epstien and his "proprietary information" can do no wrong. They need to franchise that publicly positions themselves against sabremetrics for that reason alone.

LOL.

 

Why do people keep pretending this s*** is even worth mentioning? We need to be anti-sabermetrics because Theo?

[Marty34]

Well that couldn't be further from the truth. Tell that to a GM or a good manager like Joe Maddon who's all about the numbers, matchups, probabilities, etc.

 

They aren't made to tell you who's an MVP type hitter, cmon now.

 

Joe Maddon is a great manager because of David Price, Evan Longoria, James Shields, Matt Moore, BJ Upton.

[Marty34]

LOL.

 

Why do people keep pretending this s*** is even worth mentioning? We need to be anti-sabermetrics because Theo?

 

Absolutely. Theo's got all the answers most of which were PED's and not numbers.

[iamshack]

I'm sure the Sox are a little perturbed hearing over and over again in the local media about how the great Theo Epstien and his "proprietary information" can do no wrong. They need to franchise that publicly positions themselves against sabremetrics for that reason alone.

Let the Cubs do what they want...Hahn quietly does what he does and there is no need to talk about it with anyone.

 

I'm going to give him a little time to put his own philosophies to work and see what happens.

 

All I know is the few players he has brought in for practically nothing have managed to add a bit of a spark to this club...that is exactly what I want to see out of a GM.

 

He may not hit the home runs Kenny hit (or the huge swing and misses, for that matter) because of his risk tolerance, but I still like what I see out of him thus far.

Edited April 27, 2013 by iamshack

[iamshack]

Joe Maddon is a great manager because of David Price, Evan Longoria, James Shields, Matt Moore, BJ Upton.

These things don't have to be black and white or mutually exclusive.

 

Joe Maddon can be a great manager because of those guys, and separate and apart from them.

[Dick Allen]

Fantastic? Hardly.

 

 

Yes, throw would go to 2nd base there.

 

They are slamming Hawk because Hawk is a buffoon.

 

 

Not embrace stupidity? Why does that have to turn into a rallying cry?

I wish they threw to second. The guy on first wasn't running. Rios would have been safe. I also pointed that out as a reason it wasn't called feom the dugout, you said it was stupid.

 

Its funny, you were wrong, yet still won't even admit it.

 

[Marty34]

These things don't have to be black and white or mutually exclusive.

 

Joe Maddon can be a great manager because of those guys, and separate and apart from them.

 

I think Maddon is an excellent game manager. OTOH, I'm not a believer in Ventura's in-game managerial skills. That said, I think the Sox have overachieved so far this year and last under his guidance.

[Marty34]

Let the Cubs do what they want...Hahn quietly does what he does and there is no need to talk about it with anyone.

 

I like it when the Sox have a chip on their shoulder. Why not publicly embrace #TWTW and use sabermetrics? Same as Theo publicly embraced sabermetrics as a cover for PED's.

[IlliniKrush]

I'm sure the Sox are a little perturbed hearing over and over again in the local media about how the great Theo Epstien and his "proprietary information" can do no wrong. They need to franchise that publicly positions themselves against sabremetrics for that reason alone.

Now you're just being weird. Why take this stance? Anti-Cubs? It's also a lie, Hahn uses this stuff.

 

Joe Maddon is a great manager because of David Price, Evan Longoria, James Shields, Matt Moore, BJ Upton.

He also uses numbers, graphs, charts as much as any coach in the business.

 

I wish they threw to second. The guy on first wasn't running. Rios would have been safe. I also pointed that out as a reason it wasn't called feom the dugout, you said it was stupid.

 

Its funny, you were wrong, yet still won't even admit it.

A guy can steal 3rd without a guy attempting to steal 2nd. Even if Rios was stealing 3rd from the dugout, it doesn't mean Konerko would have been running. We've covered this multiple times. You using "Paul wasn't running" isn't evidence it wasn't from the dugout. Until we heard who it was, the assumption is it was called. Paul not going doesn't do anything to counter that.

 

I think Maddon is an excellent game manager. OTOH, I'm not a believer in Ventura's in-game managerial skills. That said, I think the Sox have overachieved so far this year and last under his guidance.

That's funny, because he uses numbers to make most of his decisions. He's not a gut manager.

[southsider2k5]

Hah, no. My point is that we're basically stuck with Hawk as a mouthpiece for the team at this point...maybe I am wrong, but I am viewing this as Brooks making the best of the situation and sort of running with the acronym tongue and cheek...perhaps I am just giving them too much credit though?

 

This exactly, though I think this probably came from Brooks to Hawk and not the other way around. This is a PR guy doing his job, and doing it well.

[iamshack]

This exactly, though I think this probably came from Brooks to Hawk and not the other way around. This is a PR guy doing his job, and doing it well.

Brooks may have come up with the acronym, but Hawk stated the same thing during the telecast that started all this stuff...I think the way Hawk originally put it was "gimme the guys that want to win."

 

Brooks probably repackaged it for Hawk to deliver during the interview with Brian Kenny and HR.

[Balta1701]

This exactly, though I think this probably came from Brooks to Hawk and not the other way around. This is a PR guy doing his job, and doing it well.

Brooks suggested that rant to Hawk? Wha?

[Marty34]

Now you're just being weird. Why take this stance? Anti-Cubs? It's also a lie, Hahn uses this stuff.

 

Why not take this stance? You can't out-saber Theo and the Cubs, your biggest competitor. As far as it being a lie, that's ok. The Red Sox were built on PED's and the 2nd-largest payroll in MLB during Theo's years.

 

[southsider2k5]

Brooks may have come up with the acronym, but Hawk stated the same thing during the telecast that started all this stuff...I think the way Hawk originally put it was "gimme the guys that want to win."

 

Brooks probably repackaged it for Hawk to deliver during the interview with Brian Kenny and HR.

 

That sounds like the most plausible scenario of all. Brooks pulled someone useful out of one of Hawks rants. I do really think this was all set up ahead of time, and the Sox are using it to create some excitement... And good for them. If the team really does start playing better, it is a rallying cry. If not, this is forgotten along with every other failed PR campaign. It really is a no lose situation.

[Balta1701]

Why not take this stance? You can't out-saber Theo and the Cubs, your biggest competitor. As far as it being a lie, that's ok. The Red Sox were built on PED's and the 2nd-largest payroll in MLB during Theo's years.

This is just hilarious.