Reed, Jones, Quintana...etc

[macsandz]

For a supposedly barren farm system, this club has promoted some seriously talented young pitching lately.

[farmteam]

For a supposedly barren farm system, this club has promoted some seriously talented young pitching lately.

 

Well, if the best your farm system can offer is a couple of relievers and a pitcher who's made one decent start and one good relief appearance, then yeah that sounds pretty barren.

 

That said, I like Reed a lot and I could Jones being similar to Jesse Crain.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Well, if the best your farm system can offer is a couple of relievers and a pitcher who's made one decent start and one good relief appearance, then yeah that sounds pretty barren.

 

That said, I like Reed a lot and I could Jones being similar to Jesse Crain.

Axlerod had a decent start and there's always DeAza ,Viciedo and Sale. Reed , Santiago, Jones. Now Quintana.

[Jake]

Jones is an absolutely AMAZING talent.

[maxjusttyped]

Jones is an absolutely AMAZING talent.

Agreed. He's been one of the most pleasant surprises so far this year. He has all the tools to be a dominate late inning reliever for years to come.

[max power]

One of Robin/Kenny's best moves was to include him over bruney.

[macsandz]

Well, if the best your farm system can offer is a couple of relievers and a pitcher who's made one decent start and one good relief appearance, then yeah that sounds pretty barren.

 

That said, I like Reed a lot and I could Jones being similar to Jesse Crain.

 

Who said anything about the best they could offer? Those guys are just what they need right now.

[SoxFan562004]

there's also a player like DeAza. The Sox picked him up and he's in his late 20's and contributing... they didn't develop him but KW and the staff have to get credit for identifying him as low cost player who will contribute at the MLB level. Obviously I would like the Sox to have a better minor league draft to MLB system, but that should not totally overshadow this regimes ability to identify low cost mid level outcasts that come in and contribute.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Axlerod had a decent start and there's always DeAza ,Viciedo and Sale. Reed , Santiago, Jones. Now Quintana.

 

De Aza was not a product of our system. He was a Marlins guy.

[witesoxfan]

Who said anything about the best they could offer? Those guys are just what they need right now.

 

A 3bman who can hit is exactly what the White Sox need.

[caulfield12]

One thing I do find hilarious is we might not get anything out of Molina, who we traded a young, cost-controlled closer for...and that trade is still a disaster if Molina doesn't do anything at the big league level.

 

But to steal Quintana from under the noses of the Yankees is KW at his best. First Contreras, now Quintana?

 

Would really like to know more about who was scouting the Florida State League for the Sox and recommended him.

 

He managed to get through the game today without having any of his offspeed pitches (curve/slider/change) working for strikes. When he did get them over the plate, they were smashed for doubles. That's pretty impressive for a kid who spent most of the season in A ball last year.

 

He definitely didn't let the occasion of pitching against the AL Central leaders at home get to him at all. When he put runners on 2nd and 3rd and one out with the passed ball/wild pitch, he impressively got out of that key situation and didn't give up the lead, which is what you would have expected.

 

Not to mention that the decision to stay with Santiago on the major league roster has been paying dividends as well.

 

 

Axelrod, DeAza, Humber, Flowers, Lillibridge, Jones, Santiago, Ramirez, Viciedo, Reed, Quintana, Escobar, Beckham, Sale, Morel....that's not a bad list for our barren/unproductive farm system.

 

And yet the biggest key this season has been the return to excellence for Dunn/Peavy, and Rios playing at a good but not great level.

Edited May 26, 2012 by caulfield12

[buckweaver]

Well, if the best your farm system can offer is a couple of relievers and a pitcher who's made one decent start and one good relief appearance, then yeah that sounds pretty barren.

 

That said, I like Reed a lot and I could Jones being similar to Jesse Crain.

 

Typically "Soxtalky" smarmy quote. Not that everyone is supposed to be farting rainbows and crapping moon pies, but what's the point of putting this into THIS discussion?

 

On the topic, many people believe young player development is integral to building sustained winning. It's probably so. And organizations get evaluated on that...and on how they spend money on big name free agents.

 

But what I do not see (next to never) is analysis of how GMs compare when it comes to plugging major league holes or adding the integral piece. Kenny Williams (and Ron Scheuler before him) is awfully good at that. We went for a number of years with some excellent rent-a-right-fielders. Albeit a week...but Orland Hudson is a great current example. De Aza's pickup off the scrap heap. Hell even the trade for Carlos Quentin. Many more examples out there for sure.

 

So, to the Soxtalk braintrust, how important is this GM skillset vis-a-vis drafting/developing talent? And how do you rate Williams/Sox organization against others.

 

Discuss. Back to lurking.

Edited May 26, 2012 by buckweaver

[caulfield12]

Typically "Soxtalky" smarmy quote. Not that everyone is supposed to be farting rainbows and crapping moon pies, but what's the point of putting this into THIS discussion?

 

On the topic, many people believe young player development is integral to building sustained winning. It's probably so. And organizations get evaluated on that...and on how they spend money on big name free agents.

 

But what I do not see (next to never) is analysis of how GMs compare when it comes to plugging major league holes or adding the integral piece. Kenny Williams (and Ron Scheuler before him) is awfully good at that. We went for a number of years with some excellent rent-a-right-fielders. Albeit a week...but Orland Hudson is a great current example. De Aza's pickup off the scrap heap. Hell even the trade for Carlos Quentin. Many more examples out there for sure.

 

So, to the Soxtalk braintrust, how important is this GM skillset vis-a-vis drafting/developing talent? And how do you rate Williams/Sox organization against others.

 

Discuss. Back to lurking.

 

 

Every big KW move...Jackson, Swisher (both deals), Dunn, Peavy and Rios hasn't worked out, at least to the point where their underperformances and payroll numbers forced us to cut about $25 million (Buehrle, Quentin, Santos) from the payroll.

 

So yeah, we've been able to cover up on the cheap with moves like DeAza, Humber...Quintana would be another example...but we've still got gaping holes (future-wise) at 3B and catcher.

 

All things considered, with the infusion of Reed, Nathan Jones and Santiago, our bullpen has been about as good as could be expected, but is still more talked about in terms of "potential" rather than all the pieces working together like in 2005.

 

The closer we get to first place, the more we get away from "development/rebuilding" and the more dangerous our situation becomes, in the sense that being mired in the 75-85 win range is like death.

 

Those numbers are going to give you low attendance (or falling attendance on a cyclical downtrend) and no sure-fire talent in the first round of the draft.

 

Maybe somehow between Quintana, Axelrod, Zach Stewart, Castro, Hernandez, Doyle, Molina, Hernandez and Hector Santiago, we can fill out the bullpen, the final two rotation spots in 2013 AND survive the losses of Floyd, Thornton and Crain, as those are the only places we could conceivably cut without destroying our chances of competing this year.

 

We definitely have more pitching talent in our system than at the same point in 2011...and Mitchell has made himself into a legitimate prospect again, so baby steps.

Edited May 26, 2012 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Well, if the best your farm system can offer is a couple of relievers and a pitcher who's made one decent start and one good relief appearance, then yeah that sounds pretty barren.

 

That said, I like Reed a lot and I could Jones being similar to Jesse Crain.

 

Our farm system also offered Chris Sale who is looking like a #1 or #2 starter.

[TaylorStSox]

Every big KW move...Jackson, Swisher (both deals), Dunn, Peavy and Rios hasn't worked out, at least to the point where their underperformances and payroll numbers forced us to cut about $25 million (Buehrle, Quentin, Santos) from the payroll.

 

So yeah, we've been able to cover up on the cheap with moves like DeAza, Humber...Quintana would be another example...but we've still got gaping holes (future-wise) at 3B and catcher.

 

All things considered, with the infusion of Reed, Nathan Jones and Santiago, our bullpen has been about as good as could be expected, but is still more talked about in terms of "potential" rather than all the pieces working together like in 2005.

 

The closer we get to first place, the more we get away from "development/rebuilding" and the more dangerous our situation becomes, in the sense that being mired in the 75-85 win range is like death.

 

Those numbers are going to give you low attendance (or falling attendance on a cyclical downtrend) and no sure-fire talent in the first round of the draft.

 

Maybe somehow between Quintana, Axelrod, Zach Stewart, Castro, Hernandez, Doyle, Molina, Hernandez and Hector Santiago, we can fill out the bullpen, the final two rotation spots in 2013 AND survive the losses of Floyd, Thornton and Crain, as those are the only places we could conceivably cut without destroying our chances of competing this year.

 

We definitely have more pitching talent in our system than at the same point in 2011...and Mitchell has made himself into a legitimate prospect again, so baby steps.

 

I really don't think there's a gaping hole at catcher. Flowers has turned into a pretty good defender and I actually prefer the way he calls a game. I think he can give you 240/350 with 15-20 homers. That'll work for me.

[LittleHurt05]

For a supposedly barren farm system, this club has promoted some seriously talented young pitching lately.

 

How dare you talk highly of the Sox farm system on Soxtalk? That's blasphemy around these parts.

[oldsox]

So yeah, we've been able to cover up on the cheap with moves like DeAza, Humber...Quintana would be another example...but we've still got gaping holes (future-wise) at 3B and catcher.

I would not be surprised to see AJ come back next year with another two year contract.

Edited May 26, 2012 by oldsox

[Jake]

I would not be surprised to see AJ come back next year with another two year contract.

 

If being competitive is the plan, AJ will be back. I assume for roughly the same amount of money...I'm not sure if it matters how well he hits this year, I don't think anyone is going to pay a 36 year old catcher a ton of money

 

 

FWIW, I will make no bold statements about the Santos trade until we know that he is healthy. May have traded damaged goods over there (Sirotka come to mind, anyone?)

[Balta1701]

I would not be surprised to see AJ come back next year with another two year contract.

I'd be surprised if he could get 2 years from anyone, even after tearing the ball apart this year.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

De Aza was not a product of our system. He was a Marlins guy.

If he played in our minor leagues that counts to me.

[southsider2k5]

De Aza was not a product of our system. He was a Marlins guy.

 

If that is the case then the Sox case looks better as they get to claim guys like Gonzalez and Hudson.

[Balta1701]

If that is the case then the Sox case looks better as they get to claim guys like Gonzalez and Hudson.

Except then we get mad because we gave those guys away in some rotten deals.

[Jake]

If that is the case then the Sox case looks better as they get to claim guys like Gonzalez and Hudson.

 

It doesn't make your drafting look better, but it shows savvy on the part of the GM as well. I consider any player you acquired before he was clearly an MLB player a "system" guy. If he had to get better to make your team, that makes your organization look good. Even Humber is a borderline example of this, since he seemed to be fast-tracked for AAA when we got him.

[southsider2k5]

Except then we get mad because we gave those guys away in some rotten deals.

 

Then we also get to count guys like De Aza who weren't drafted.

[Balta1701]

Then we also get to count guys like De Aza who weren't drafted.

We should be very happy about stealing De Aza (and kind of mad that he spent so long in AAA).