You're KW, what next?

[Marty34]

I think you mean REVELLED.

 

Although sometimes you can be reviled when you are deliberately obtuse or obfuscating your true nature here, lol.

 

True, true. Was a long pre-birthday celebration that started on 35th yesterday. Words aren't my things this morning.

[Marty34]

What was our attendance spike in 2010 during and after the 26-5 run?

 

Did that make bringing in Manny Ramirez largely possible, or was the money already there in reserve?

 

Let's say we jump from 20K to a 22K average over the next 2 months. Is that enough to justify an acquisition that adds significant salary ($7.5 million and above)?

 

My guy told me that the 26-5 stretch was huge for ticket sales in 2010.

[Dick Allen]

Things have to be kept in perspective. I love the hot streak as much as anyone but its been against the Cubs and Twins, 2 of the worst teams in baseball, and Cleveland playing without Hafner, Cabrera and Santana. Obviously, these are games that should be won, and have been won, something that couldn't have been said much the past few seasons. Lots can change in a week. If the Sox are still playing well, I think the bandwagon is going to start filling up.

[southsider2k5]

My guy told me that the 26-5 stretch was huge for ticket sales in 2010.

 

And if we have a stretch like that, I am sure attendance will respond accordingly. Right now we are running about 20% behind last year.

[Dick Allen]

And if we have a stretch like that, I am sure attendance will respond accordingly. Right now we are running about 20% behind last year.

Definitely. 26-5 stretches don't occur very often. I'd bet most teams that have had them in the wild card era, have made the playoffs.

[chw42]

Things have to be kept in perspective. I love the hot streak as much as anyone but its been against the Cubs and Twins, 2 of the worst teams in baseball, and Cleveland playing without Hafner, Cabrera and Santana. Obviously, these are games that should be won, and have been won, something that couldn't have been said much the past few seasons. Lots can change in a week. If the Sox are still playing well, I think the bandwagon is going to start filling up.

 

If they can go down to Tampa and take 2 of 3, then you bet the bandwagon will start lining up. Then we get Seattle at home after that, so if they can go 5-1 or 4-2 this next week, they'd be in really good shape.

[Marty34]

And if we have a stretch like that, I am sure attendance will respond accordingly. Right now we are running about 20% behind last year.

 

This has budgeted for, no surprises. They have money to make trade deadline moves. Short-term money is never an issue for this team if it can make a post-season run.

[southsider2k5]

Things have to be kept in perspective. I love the hot streak as much as anyone but its been against the Cubs and Twins, 2 of the worst teams in baseball, and Cleveland playing without Hafner, Cabrera and Santana. Obviously, these are games that should be won, and have been won, something that couldn't have been said much the past few seasons. Lots can change in a week. If the Sox are still playing well, I think the bandwagon is going to start filling up.

 

These are games that would have been 50/50 games last year. We blew plenty of them. Wins now are wins that the Tigers have to make up later. The offensive outburst will balance itself out too.

[southsider2k5]

This has budgeted for, no surprises. They have money to make trade deadline moves. Short-term money is never an issue for this team if it can make a post-season run.

 

Attendance also hasn't been an issue before. This is the lowest attendance since 1998. The last time the payroll was in this area, we were drawing 8000 more people per night, or about 650000 more twirls of the turnstiles over the course of the season.

 

It makes a big difference.

[iamshack]

Marty is right about one thing.

 

We are much better set up to compete this year than any year going forward, because of AJ and Peavy. Alexei isn't getting any younger. Konerko only has one more season under contract.

 

It almost feels like 2007-2008 all over again, where we were just about to rebuild only to end up re-signing Buehrle/Konerko and keeping the 2005 nucleus around for one more run at it, which somehow got extended by four more years because of Danks/Quentin/Alexei/Ramirez/Viciedo/Beckham/Sale/Rios/Peavy all coming into the organization over a two-year period.

 

Still feels like we're "stuck" with no clear direction...other than the fact we're not going to cripple this team's chances to compete (because it will be our best shot for 2-3 more years) and we're not going to cripple the future either with any blockbuster deals, like one for David Wright, which will completely decimate what's left of our minor league system.

The Mets are 26-21 right now, so I don't know that they can really move Wright until they fall back a bit anyways...it's going to be tough enough for them to move the face of that franchise, it will be even tougher if they are actually in the race. But as it stands now, they have a better record than we do.

 

I think it's pretty clear you look to stay where you're at for now unless someone really bowls you over with a move for Floyd or Thornton. Otherwise, keep watching that waiver wire for another small addition.

[Marty34]

Attendance also hasn't been an issue before. This is the lowest attendance since 1998. The last time the payroll was in this area, we were drawing 8000 more people per night, or about 650000 more twirls of the turnstiles over the course of the season.

 

It makes a big difference.

 

According to Forbes they turned a profit last year (when no one went the 2nd half.) They cut roughly $30M off the payroll. They have money to make a move.

 

[Dick Allen]

What the Sox can do is be creative. Draft pick compensation is different now. You have to make quite an offer to get draft picks if a FA departs, so some teams will be more willing to give up guys and pay a lot of their remaining salary for a legit prospect or 2, something KW did with Everett and Alomar in 2003. Teams are always looking for relievers, the Sox seem to have a lot of them. Also, teams acquiring guys must have them a year to be eligible for compensation. I just don't see them adding payroll, although KW did hint they had something available after they traded Quentin and then kind of went back on it, so I'm sure they have something available. They know better than us how bad attendance is and how it looks going forward. It will go up if the Sox continue to play well, but it doesn't usually skyrocket.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

According to Forbes they turned a profit last year (when no one went the 2nd half.) They cut roughly $30M off the payroll. They have money to make a move.

 

And they are drawing 20% less than when no one went last year.

[Marty34]

And they are drawing 20% less than when no one went last year.

 

You're right. The White Sox do not have money to make a move at the trade deadline.

[TaylorStSox]

I'd trade everybody, Komerko, AJ, Thornton, Crain, Peavy etc. I still don't think we're a good team. We're probably "dangerously" good though. The Sox are just good enough that trading the veterans will cause anther white flag situation. Too many people will cry if the Sox do the right thing. IMO, the white flag trades were the right move then and it would be the right move now.

[iamshack]

You're right. The White Sox do not have money to make a move at the trade deadline.

If they are in position to win the division, they will find some money. They always do. Even if it means trading off a surplus part (Thornton) for a more needed part (3b, SP).

 

 

[iamshack]

I'd trade everybody, Komerko, AJ, Thornton, Crain, Peavy etc. I still don't think we're a good team. We're probably "dangerously" good though. The Sox are just good enough that trading the veterans will cause anther white flag situation. Too many people will cry if the Sox do the right thing. IMO, the white flag trades were the right move then and it would be the right move now.

The problem with this, even if you are right, is that this is the team Kenny has been trying to put together since the day after we lost to the Rays in the 2008 ALDS.

 

I think it would be tremendously difficult for him (and the fans) to deal with trading all those core players away right when it looks like it all could be coming together.

Edited May 27, 2012 by iamshack

[Jake]

Basically - the "if's" remain "if's"

 

What you are seeing now is most of the stars aligning that we hoped would. We knew this team would be good if Dunn, Rios turned around and the young guys like Viciedo, Beckham, ADA played like we knew they could. AJ playing over his head, I would say Paulie is (.396, wow) but his run production isn't really sky high

 

The cool thing is -- our rotation still has room for improvement, we've only spent a couple weeks now with a real life closer, Beckham still hasn't hit his stride as far as results (damn those hard outs), and we've had no production from 3B despite the hope that Hudson will bring it

 

It's nice when you are on an amazing run like this without EVERYTHING clicking...that means we may have the potential for more/longer runs.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Jake

[caulfield12]

Attendance also hasn't been an issue before. This is the lowest attendance since 1998. The last time the payroll was in this area, we were drawing 8000 more people per night, or about 650000 more twirls of the turnstiles over the course of the season.

 

It makes a big difference.

 

 

But there has to be the equalizer.

 

We now have a top 3-4-5 average ticket price as well as parking price in all of MLB. That has changed significantly from 1998.

 

I'm not sure about our concessions prices averaging in the top 5 as well, but we're booking a significant premium compared to the rest of MLB teams not named the Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

 

I haven't checked the lastest numbers for 2012 from one of the sports marketing websites, but almost none of the teams in the bottom 10-13 in attendance charge comparably high ticket prices or have dynamic pricing. Maybe Seattle, Houston, Baltimore, San Diego and the Mets are SOMEWHAT in the same neighborhood but pricing, but not like the Sox. So just to look at sheer numbers or totals of tickets sold isn't nearly the same thing as total ticketing revenue booked, not to mention the luxury suites and corporate side of things, sponsorships, advertising dollars, etc.

 

As we've noted over and over again, attendance is diminishing each and every year in importance, to the point where it's closer to 20-25% of revenues versus the more traditional 40-50%, especially for a big market team like the Sox.

Edited May 27, 2012 by caulfield12

[JohnCangelosi]

Most people believe on this forum that the White Sox are strapped for cash year in and year out.

 

This team can spend a lot more than we are led to believe...whether they do it or not is another question. But they CAN if they want to.

[caulfield12]

You also have to consider the fact that the real market value of this team has jumped to the $750-900 million range from $600 million, based on the Dodgers' deal and the explosion in national/regional broadcasting fees all around baseball.

 

While our own agreements aren't going to net us huge amounts of money anytime soon (see Texas Rangers), we do have a significant ownership share in the sports network of one of the 3 biggest media markets in the US, and that is also exponentially increasing in value each and every day.

Edited May 27, 2012 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

You also have to consider the fact that the real market value of this team has jumped to the $750-900 million range from $600 million, based on the Dodgers' deal and the explosion in national/regional broadcasting fees all around baseball.

 

While our own agreements aren't going to net us huge amounts of money anytime soon (see Texas Rangers), we do have a significant ownership share in the sports network of one of the 3 biggest media markets in the US, and that is also exponentially increasing in value each and every day.

 

Value doesn't equal spending money.

[iamshack]

You also have to consider the fact that the real market value of this team has jumped to the $750-900 million range from $600 million, based on the Dodgers' deal and the explosion in national/regional broadcasting fees all around baseball.

 

While our own agreements aren't going to net us huge amounts of money anytime soon (see Texas Rangers), we do have a significant ownership share in the sports network of one of the 3 biggest media markets in the US, and that is also exponentially increasing in value each and every day.

This kind of reminds me of the housing crisis...should they take out a team equity loan?

[sunofgold]

The division is weak. White Sox should be in contention or leading the whole year. Wildcars teams are going to have a rougher road this season. Gives divisional winners better odds in the playoffs.

 

You have to consider getting another starter. Humber has been awful since the perfect game. Floyd inconsistent, Danks bad and sore, Sale solid but sore, and Peavy coming back to earth. Another solid starter would be sweet.

 

And try to unload Ohman. Keep Thornton.

[Kyyle23]

If I am KW, I read this thread and irrationally overreact and attempt to gain full value for every player in the entire organization and then consider pretty much every angle from the Cubs attendance and result to the overall Forbes value of the team. Ready. Set. Go!