You're KW, what next?

[McDude]

Why? He's under contract, affordably, for a number of years. If we happen to already have his replacement in the system in Saladino, then there's a better chance his replacement would be traded than there is that Alexei would actually be replaced.

 

Why? I can probably make an entirely too long of a post explaining "why." People on here talk about trading Adam Dunn and Jake Peavy while they look good and you can still get something for them. Well, I see the same thing with Alexei, trade him while people still remember he is a great defender.

[caulfield12]

Josh Reddick SUPER quietly has 14 homers for the A's.

 

Capps threatening to blow yet another save for the Twins...coming off the Cabrera homer to dead center yesterday.

[Rowand44]

I don't understand when people complain about Alexei's lack of upside. He's a top 5 shortstop, what the hell kind of upside are we looking for?

[caulfield12]

Nothing equals 2005 and 2006 (first half), with the possible exception of 2000 when it had been so long since the White Sox had a good team.

 

2008 and that stretch in 2010 when we went 26-5 was sweet too, but no way it compares to the sheer roller coaster, hollow feeling in the pit of your stomach the final 2-3 weeks of 2005.

 

Joe Crede lives.

Edited May 28, 2012 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

I don't understand when people complain about Alexei's lack of upside. He's a top 5 shortstop, what the hell kind of upside are we looking for?

 

 

Because he was so clutch and carried the team for many games when Quentin didn't in 2008, hit all those grand slams...maybe we were all thinking he would continue to improve from there offensively.

 

That clearly hasn't happened, but even if he's in the 675-725 range OPS wise, he's one of the most valuable players on our team.

 

In the low 500's OPS-wise, you're selling way too low on where we all expect him to be at the end of the season.

 

 

You don't trade a Gold Glove SS in the middle of a 14-5 streak when you're in first place. You just don't. Especially when we have no suitable replacement for him.

[southsider2k5]

I don't understand when people complain about Alexei's lack of upside. He's a top 5 shortstop, what the hell kind of upside are we looking for?

 

The steroid era is over.

[Baron]

Well if were in it by the trade deadline add a starter and go for it.

[kapkomet]

Can't. KW's already said that attendance is going to keep this team as is.

 

[TaylorStSox]

I don't understand when people complain about Alexei's lack of upside. He's a top 5 shortstop, what the hell kind of upside are we looking for?

He's probably the most underrated White Sox I can ever remember.

[Baron]

Can't. KW's already said that attendance is going to keep this team as is.

 

Never listen to Kenny unless the has trade deadline passed.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Baron

[Quin]

Never listen to Kenny unless the has waiver deadline passed.

 

Fixed

[Soxfest]

Next move like every year is talk about not being able to spend a dollar on a 50 cent revenue.

[southsider2k5]

Never listen to Kenny.

 

 

Fixed

 

 

Re-fixed

[Dick Allen]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,3869392.story

 

If they want people to buy tickets, maybe jacking up prices so much to feed the Dynamic Pricing model should be abandoned.

[caulfield12]

"It’s a heck of an advantage when you have that kind of support. But absent of that, we’ll just go through our day-to-day grind, and hopefully at some point in time, we’ll get people’s attention.”

 

"Every day that you don’t fill the seats, at least to a greater degree than we are, is a day it hurts," Williams said.

 

 

How about doing a better job as GM?

 

[Dick Allen]

"It’s a heck of an advantage when you have that kind of support. But absent of that, we’ll just go through our day-to-day grind, and hopefully at some point in time, we’ll get people’s attention.”

 

"Every day that you don’t fill the seats, at least to a greater degree than we are, is a day it hurts," Williams said.

 

 

How about doing a better job as GM?

Look at the prices for this Saturday's game against the world beater Seattle Marinerss. If a family of 4 wants to go to the game, its over $200 to sit in the bleachers. Its $160 to sit in the upper deck. Its ridiculous. Its almost as if they don't want to sell tickets. Its $90+ wilth fees per ticket for a premium lower deck box. Then you add gas, parking, food...............There will be 10,000 empty seats and they wonder why.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

Look at the prices for this Saturday's game against the world beater Seattle Marinerss. If a family of 4 wants to go to the game, its over $200 to sit in the bleachers. Its $160 to sit in the upper deck. Its ridiculous. Its almost as if they don't want to sell tickets. Its $90+ wilth fees per ticket for a premium lower deck box. Then you add gas, parking, food...............There will be 10,000 empty seats and they wonder why.

 

 

You and Greg, I guess we're all broken records on this topic.

 

The back and forth will always be about the discounted games, half-price nights, etc.

 

For whatever reason, they treat their fanbase like an almost completely inelastic market that will bear any price burdens. And they protect those lower box holders/buyers from the upper deck crowds as well as protecting the value of their ticket prices by not offering so many discounts nights and also increasing the "premium" experience as much as possible. But that's nothing like what the White Sox were in the 50's/60's/70's/80's in terms of their typical fans/fanbase and crowds. However, since the new park opened, they've seemed content with the transition to a corporate crowd and largely away from anything resembling "blue collar/South Siders" of the days of yore.

 

 

From two years working for a minor league team, I've always felt you had an obligation to get fans in the seats and expose them to your product...and give them a great experience, something that will make them want to come back again and again. Granted, there's a huge difference in pricing structures, the entertainment vs. "winning" mix isn't as significant a factor in attendance at the big league level...

 

It's almost like they want fans to stay home so 1) they can complain about the attendance, and 2) maybe somehow having more fans at homes means higher ratings for the broadcasts and more advertising revenue, lol.

 

 

But obviously KW is aware of the connection between the impact of the big, high 20's/low 30's home crowds and what we've been playing in front of for more of this season.

 

 

[VAfan]

I can't see KW moving anyone until he sees where we are in early July. At our current pace, which includes our last 20 games, the Sox are certainly playoff contenders. We're much stronger than the Indians, with only the Tigers as legitimate rivals. And if the Sox are playoff contenders, KW's history is to do everything he can to add, never subtract.

 

Some of the suggestions on this thread strike me as crazy. Trading Ramirez? His offense will come around, but his defense makes him worth his contract regardless Trade Dunn? That's been mostly shot down, as Dunn has returned to his regular form. Trade Rios? Possibly, but who would really take his whole contract, and who would replace him? Trade Thornton and Crain? Our bullpen has already cost us this season. KW won't dump bullpen vets the team will need when game pressure gets more intense.

 

People didn't think this team could win because a lot of things had to fall in place. Dunn and Rios had to rebound. Viciedo had to hit. Beckham or Morel had to hit. De Aza had to hold up in the lead off spot. Peavy had to stay healthy and be decent. Sale had to make the transition to starter. Danks couldn't melt down like he did last year. Humber had to be okay. Floyd needed to be over .500. We needed to find a closer.

 

Just about all the things that needed to happen have happened. The offense, which was pathetic last year, was tied for 3rd in runs scored going into today's game. Peavy has been the pitcher KW thought he was buying years ago. Sale is an ace already. Danks and Floyd don't have to be 1-2, but just 3-4. Humber has been ok. Quintana made a nice spot start, showing we have some depth. Reed has given us a solid closer, which lines up the rest of the bullpen.

 

From this point forward, I expect things to get better in some areas, and to tail off in others. Offensively, I expect De Aza to stay about the same, Beckham to show considerable improvement, Dunn to end up his normal career numbers -- about 40 HRs, 100 RBI, .240-50 average, with enough walks to keep his OBP high. Konerko will tail off, but remain solid. Rios will be up and down; not fantastic but not terrible. AJ will tail off too, but will have an above-average year. He's already way ahead of norms for HRs and RBI. Viciedo will continue getting better. Ramirez has been worse than normal, but should improve. Hudson is a reasonable stop-gap at 3B. Even if his hitting isn't great, he walks and can still run. This is an offense that can compete. We have fewer automatic outs in the lineup, and more HR power.

 

I actually worry more about the pitching, esp. the starting pitching. Danks has a sore shoulder. Floyd has bad stretches. Humber is not as steady as he was last year. Sale briefly had arm issues already; can he hold up for a full season? Peavy hasn't stayed healthy for years. I think the bullpen is good now that Reed is closing.

 

If I was going to make a move, it would be for the starting staff. Maybe if you moved Floyd you could take on another starter. But I wouldn't do anything now. Floyd has had great stretches in the past -- the 26-5 stretch, e.g., and might easily again.

 

Other than Texas, there isn't a dominant team in the AL. So, if the Sox make the playoffs, we could compete.

 

Ventura's philosophy is one-day-at-a-time. I think that's where KW should be too. If we can compete now, which we are doing, don't sell out for the future, and don't mortgage the future for a marginal improvement this year. Sit tight and re-evaluate in early July.

[caulfield12]

I can't see KW moving anyone until he sees where we are in early July. At our current pace, which includes our last 20 games, the Sox are certainly playoff contenders. We're much stronger than the Indians, with only the Tigers as legitimate rivals. And if the Sox are playoff contenders, KW's history is to do everything he can to add, never subtract.

 

Some of the suggestions on this thread strike me as crazy. Trading Ramirez? His offense will come around, but his defense makes him worth his contract regardless Trade Dunn? That's been mostly shot down, as Dunn has returned to his regular form. Trade Rios? Possibly, but who would really take his whole contract, and who would replace him? Trade Thornton and Crain? Our bullpen has already cost us this season. KW won't dump bullpen vets the team will need when game pressure gets more intense.

 

People didn't think this team could win because a lot of things had to fall in place. Dunn and Rios had to rebound. Viciedo had to hit. Beckham or Morel had to hit. De Aza had to hold up in the lead off spot. Peavy had to stay healthy and be decent. Sale had to make the transition to starter. Danks couldn't melt down like he did last year. Humber had to be okay. Floyd needed to be over .500. We needed to find a closer.

 

Just about all the things that needed to happen have happened. The offense, which was pathetic last year, was tied for 3rd in runs scored going into today's game. Peavy has been the pitcher KW thought he was buying years ago. Sale is an ace already. Danks and Floyd don't have to be 1-2, but just 3-4. Humber has been ok. Quintana made a nice spot start, showing we have some depth. Reed has given us a solid closer, which lines up the rest of the bullpen.

 

From this point forward, I expect things to get better in some areas, and to tail off in others. Offensively, I expect De Aza to stay about the same, Beckham to show considerable improvement, Dunn to end up his normal career numbers -- about 40 HRs, 100 RBI, .240-50 average, with enough walks to keep his OBP high. Konerko will tail off, but remain solid. Rios will be up and down; not fantastic but not terrible. AJ will tail off too, but will have an above-average year. He's already way ahead of norms for HRs and RBI. Viciedo will continue getting better. Ramirez has been worse than normal, but should improve. Hudson is a reasonable stop-gap at 3B. Even if his hitting isn't great, he walks and can still run. This is an offense that can compete. We have fewer automatic outs in the lineup, and more HR power.

 

I actually worry more about the pitching, esp. the starting pitching. Danks has a sore shoulder. Floyd has bad stretches. Humber is not as steady as he was last year. Sale briefly had arm issues already; can he hold up for a full season? Peavy hasn't stayed healthy for years. I think the bullpen is good now that Reed is closing.

 

If I was going to make a move, it would be for the starting staff. Maybe if you moved Floyd you could take on another starter. But I wouldn't do anything now. Floyd has had great stretches in the past -- the 26-5 stretch, e.g., and might easily again.

 

Other than Texas, there isn't a dominant team in the AL. So, if the Sox make the playoffs, we could compete.

 

Ventura's philosophy is one-day-at-a-time. I think that's where KW should be too. If we can compete now, which we are doing, don't sell out for the future, and don't mortgage the future for a marginal improvement this year. Sit tight and re-evaluate in early July.

 

 

Looks longer than one of my posts, haha.

 

I think you're probably right, Floyd at some point (if you look at the back of his baseball card) will go another hot streak, at which point if you get some serious offers in June/July, you'll have to consider them, based on the payoff.

 

Only KW knows how seriously he regards any of the back-end starting candidates for next year (Stewart, Axelrod, Doyle, Castro, Molina, Hernandez and possibly Santiago). At some point, they'll have to decide if the payroll can bear the price of exercising Floyd's 2013 option, should they choose to go down that path.

 

All four of our bench players are well under .200 and none of them are what would you would describe as "dangerous" right now, largely because of inconsistent playing time, but also because they just might not be very good (Lillibridge, Escobar and Fukudome). Flowers has huge power potential, and has made tremendous strides defensively, so he's not going anywhere.

 

The reason Crain and Thornton (specifically) are mentioned are because Matt's being paid as a quasi/pseudo closer and we already have Santiago, Ohman and Quintana for depth there, not to mention Hernandez in AA.

 

In an ideal world, you can use all the depth (especially two experienced veterans) you can get in that bullpen because rarely will an entire pen stay lights out for a full season...so quality depth is a godsend.

 

Can we afford to hold onto both those guys when in a world of scarce resources (not enough quality relievers) to go around, they're probably the two most valuable pieces we can trade off our major league roster without crippling it, it would clear payroll space and it would get us even more young talent for the future.

 

I'm okay either way they go, and sure, you can make an argument that as good as Nathan Jones looks right now, he's going to go down a down period and not having Crain as well could definitely hurt.

 

We have already blown 7 saves (5 resulting in losses, although the Ohman/Peavy one wasn't your typical blown save with the 6-0 lead against DET).

 

Only 7 teams in the majors have more blown saves, ranging from 8-10. The average is 5 or 6. On the other hand, this is the first stretch all season where we had the bullpen roles pretty clearly defined (Reed as closer, Thornton/Crain set-up, Ohman/Santiago interchangeable with Santiago trusted more in the later innings, Stewart for long relief)...we went through 2 Santiago implosions, 1 from Sale and 3 from Thornton in a 2-3 week period but are trending positively there. Overall, the bullpen ERA is right around 3.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2012 by caulfield12

[Marty34]

1 playoff appearance in 6 years, Kenny. Fix that instead of commenting on attendance.

[southsider2k5]

Looks longer than one of my posts, haha.

 

I think you're probably right, Floyd at some point (if you look at the back of his baseball card) will go another hot streak, at which point if you get some serious offers in June/July, you'll have to consider them, based on the payoff.

Only KW knows how seriously he regards any of the back-end starting candidates for next year (Stewart, Axelrod, Doyle, Castro, Molina, Hernandez and possibly Santiago). At some point, they'll have to decide if the payroll can bear the price of exercising Floyd's 2013 option, should they choose to go down that path.

 

All four of our bench players are well under .200 and none of them are what would you would describe as "dangerous" right now, largely because of inconsistent playing time, but also because they just might not be very good (Lillibridge, Escobar and Fukudome). Flowers has huge power potential, and has made tremendous strides defensively, so he's not going anywhere.

 

The reason Crain and Thornton (specifically) are mentioned are because Matt's being paid as a quasi/pseudo closer and we already have Santiago, Ohman and Quintana for depth there, not to mention Hernandez in AA.

 

In an ideal world, you can use all the depth (especially two experienced veterans) you can get in that bullpen because rarely will an entire pen stay lights out for a full season...so quality depth is a godsend.

 

Can we afford to hold onto both those guys when in a world of scarce resources (not enough quality relievers) to go around, they're probably the two most valuable pieces we can trade off our major league roster without crippling it, it would clear payroll space and it would get us even more young talent for the future.

 

I'm okay either way they go, and sure, you can make an argument that as good as Nathan Jones looks right now, he's going to go down a down period and not having Crain as well could definitely hurt.

 

We have already blown 7 saves (5 resulting in losses, although the Ohman/Peavy one wasn't your typical blown save with the 6-0 lead against DET).

 

Only 7 teams in the majors have more blown saves, ranging from 8-10. The average is 5 or 6. On the other hand, this is the first stretch all season where we had the bullpen roles pretty clearly defined (Reed as closer, Thornton/Crain set-up, Ohman/Santiago interchangeable with Santiago trusted more in the later innings, Stewart for long relief)...we went through 2 Santiago implosions, 1 from Sale and 3 from Thornton in a 2-3 week period but are trending positively there. Overall, the bullpen ERA is right around 3.

 

And if a deal gets done, those are the guys who would be going somewhere.

 

[sunofgold]

And if a deal gets done, those are the guys who would be going somewhere.

Probably hold. A 3rd baseman would be nice but the price is going to be too high.

 

[Cali]

My answer: Starting Pitching.

 

Yes, there is every chance in the world that the offense could struggle like it was in April at any point again in the season, but I trust the hitters more than the starters to last a full season without breaking down.

 

Danks/Floyd are the only guys who can give you 200 IP (with Peavy on the fringes just because of past injuries, but knock on wood seems like he'll be a horse)

 

Unfortunately neither are pitching well right now. Sale has been fantastic but will wear down come September and if the Sox are in it, that spells bad news.

[Balta1701]

My answer: Starting Pitching.

 

Yes, there is every chance in the world that the offense could struggle like it was in April at any point again in the season, but I trust the hitters more than the starters to last a full season without breaking down.

 

Danks/Floyd are the only guys who can give you 200 IP (with Peavy on the fringes just because of past injuries, but knock on wood seems like he'll be a horse)

 

Unfortunately neither are pitching well right now. Sale has been fantastic but will wear down come September and if the Sox are in it, that spells bad news.

It's at least possible we could get 1 starter here in a week or so...if the time off helps him find a groove that would really bolster that rotation too.

 

And then a good run from Floyd or Humber, that'd be like adding 2 starters right away;.

[Cali]

It's at least possible we could get 1 starter here in a week or so...if the time off helps him find a groove that would really bolster that rotation too.

 

And then a good run from Floyd or Humber, that'd be like adding 2 starters right away;.

 

Oh Floyd is every bit capable of going on a tear, you just gotta hope it happens at the right time.

 

So far it hasn't hurt the team too much that he's been awful lately, the offense has been covering up his bad starts and the team is in 1st. Hopefully he can make a nice run in the summer and help them stay on top or near the top.

 

Humber doesn't have that inconsistent background that we all know Floyd has, but has show flashes of brilliance this season (not even counting the perfect game) so hopefully it's something that Coop can help him with. Get that release point down and give the team some solid innings this summer...