Chicago White Sox Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (danman31 @ May 31, 2012 -> 03:45 AM) Sanchez needs more power before you can call him a top 10 prospect, even in this system. What position prospects would you rate higher? Mitchell, Thompson, and Saladino for sure. Probably Walker. I'd put him in the next tier with Semien, Ravelo, & Phegley (as I think his numbers go back up). We probably have enough pitching prospects to ensure he's not in the top 10 this year, but I do think he's one of our more interesting prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Shirek's numbers continue to slide. This happened last year too. As a starter, he does well at first... then the K numbers drop, and the AvgA goes up. Walks stay the same. Last year, his numbers as a reliever were much better than as a starter. He's a guy who can hit 95, but on a small frame, and he's primarily a fastball-sinker pitcher, with only mediocre other breaking pitches. Why the hell do they keep running him out there as a starter? He's got reliever written all over him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 31, 2012 -> 06:55 AM) What position prospects would you rate higher? Mitchell, Thompson, and Saladino for sure. Probably Walker. I'd put him in the next tier with Semien, Ravelo, & Phegley (as I think his numbers go back up). We probably have enough pitching prospects to ensure he's not in the top 10 this year, but I do think he's one of our more interesting prospects. Interesting to Dan's point earlier... that the top prospect will likely be the weakest in years. I agree. But whereas in some recent years, where you have a few guys at the very top that are intriguing, then a morass of nothing... I think the 5 to 15 spots in the system will be stronger this year, while the 1-5 spots will be weaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 31, 2012 -> 08:45 AM) Shirek's numbers continue to slide. This happened last year too. As a starter, he does well at first... then the K numbers drop, and the AvgA goes up. Walks stay the same. Last year, his numbers as a reliever were much better than as a starter. He's a guy who can hit 95, but on a small frame, and he's primarily a fastball-sinker pitcher, with only mediocre other breaking pitches. Why the hell do they keep running him out there as a starter? He's got reliever written all over him. For innings. I think most guys start in the minors simply to get innings and to have opportunities to pitch in a wide array of situations. You can probably evaluate a guy better long term the more innings he has and the more situational experience he gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (JPN366 @ May 31, 2012 -> 12:18 PM) For innings. I think most guys start in the minors simply to get innings and to have opportunities to pitch in a wide array of situations. You can probably evaluate a guy better long term the more innings he has and the more situational experience he gets. Charlie Shirek is in his 6th year in the minors at age 26, and he's pitched 518 innings over 114 games (80 of them starts). He's got 72 innings in AAA and 247 innings in AA. At this point in his career, it really doesn't add any more value to give him an array of situations. At this point and level, he should be performing the role that makes him most likely to add value to the club or in trade, and it seems pretty clear to me that is relieving, not starting. If we were talking a guy 1 or 2 years in, in A ball, I might agree with you. But in this case, it just isn't useful anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (JPN366 @ May 31, 2012 -> 12:18 PM) For innings. I think most guys start in the minors simply to get innings and to have opportunities to pitch in a wide array of situations. You can probably evaluate a guy better long term the more innings he has and the more situational experience he gets. Also, just to illustrate further, check out Charlie's splits from 2011 at B-Ham, as a reliever vs a starter: RELIEVER: 35.0 IP, 29 H, 12 ER, 0 HR, 13 BB, 29 K... 3.09 ERA, 1.20 WHIP, .223 AvgA, 1.67 GO/AO, 7.5 K/9, 3.3 BB/9 STARTER: 53.1 IP, 65 H, 26 ER, 6 HR, 15 BB, 28 K... 4.39 ERA, 1.31 WHIP, .302 AvgA, 1.31 GO/AO, 4.7 K/9, 2.5 BB/9 That's pretty dramatic. Look at the AvgA, ERA and K/9 numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 31, 2012 -> 06:55 AM) What position prospects would you rate higher? Mitchell, Thompson, and Saladino for sure. Probably Walker. I'd put him in the next tier with Semien, Ravelo, & Phegley (as I think his numbers go back up). We probably have enough pitching prospects to ensure he's not in the top 10 this year, but I do think he's one of our more interesting prospects. You answered the question for me. I wouldn't say it any different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (danman31 @ May 31, 2012 -> 01:27 PM) You answered the question for me. I wouldn't say it any different. I'd put Phegley ahead of Thompson, Walker and probably Saladino. Definitely ahead of Ravelo and Semien. Pre-draft, the only position player who really jumps past Phegley is Mitchell, in my view. Josh is a catcher, putting up solid hitting numbers in AAA, and staying healthy. His position makes his bat very valuable. His ceiling isn't as high as Thompson or some of those others, but he's got a good chance of being a major league catcher, whereas guys like Thompson and Walker have a good chance of never really getting there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Simon Castro has to be in the discussion for top prospect. He may also be on the verge of a promotion in the next month or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 31, 2012 -> 01:39 PM) I'd put Phegley ahead of Thompson, Walker and probably Saladino. Definitely ahead of Ravelo and Semien. Pre-draft, the only position player who really jumps past Phegley is Mitchell, in my view. Josh is a catcher, putting up solid hitting numbers in AAA, and staying healthy. His position makes his bat very valuable. His ceiling isn't as high as Thompson or some of those others, but he's got a good chance of being a major league catcher, whereas guys like Thompson and Walker have a good chance of never really getting there. Phegley isn't putting up solid hitting numbers though. He has 6 walks and 1 home run and an OPS just south of .700. I barely rate Phegley in the top 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (danman31 @ May 31, 2012 -> 01:47 PM) Phegley isn't putting up solid hitting numbers though. He has 6 walks and 1 home run and an OPS just south of .700. I barely rate Phegley in the top 20. Wow, I hadn't realized just how far he dropped off in May. His April line was .382/.405/.539/.945. In May it is .191/.238/.266/.504. Yikes. He does seem to be putting it back together the last few games though, going 9-for-34 w/ 3 2B. I obviously hadn't looked at his numbers lately. That said, I still think he is more in that first tier of players mentioned, than the 2nd. Even with a .700 OPS, having a catcher like that in AAA is big value. And if he bounces back and suddenly gets that number closer to .800, that's even better. His strikeout rate is reasonable, but he does need to draw more walks. Of the position players mentioned in that post earlier, I'd go: Mitchell Thompson Phegley Saladino Walker Ravelo And there may be others that I'd put in between some of those bottom three names. And I could flip-flop Phegley and Thompson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I still like Saladino quite a bit due to the walk rate. I have to say it's much harder to rank the pitching prospects than the hitters right now. To pull a caulfield like tangent: the new pitchers aren't really doing much, but the guys given up (Quentin and Santos) aren't being missed at the moment. Both have been hurt for much of the year while the replacements the Sox have put in place have done fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (danman31 @ May 31, 2012 -> 02:24 PM) I still like Saladino quite a bit due to the walk rate. I have to say it's much harder to rank the pitching prospects than the hitters right now. To pull a caulfield like tangent: the new pitchers aren't really doing much, but the guys given up (Quentin and Santos) aren't being missed at the moment. Both have been hurt for much of the year while the replacements the Sox have put in place have done fine. Yeah, the pitching prospects are a total crapshoot at this point. Here's how I'd rank the top 10: 1) Molina 2) Castro 3) Quintana 4) Axelrod 5) Olacio 6) Jaye 7) Petricka 8) Rienzo 9) Johnson 10) Walters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 31, 2012 -> 01:19 PM) Charlie Shirek is in his 6th year in the minors at age 26, and he's pitched 518 innings over 114 games (80 of them starts). He's got 72 innings in AAA and 247 innings in AA. At this point in his career, it really doesn't add any more value to give him an array of situations. At this point and level, he should be performing the role that makes him most likely to add value to the club or in trade, and it seems pretty clear to me that is relieving, not starting. If we were talking a guy 1 or 2 years in, in A ball, I might agree with you. But in this case, it just isn't useful anymore. That's the only explanation that comes to mind. I agree with you though, he's better suited as a reliever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 QUOTE (JPN366 @ May 31, 2012 -> 11:18 AM) For innings. I think most guys start in the minors simply to get innings and to have opportunities to pitch in a wide array of situations. You can probably evaluate a guy better long term the more innings he has and the more situational experience he gets. See Nathan Jones and Hector Santiago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 31, 2012 -> 04:01 PM) Yeah, the pitching prospects are a total crapshoot at this point. Here's how I'd rank the top 10: 1) Molina 2) Castro 3) Quintana 4) Axelrod 5) Olacio 6) Jaye 7) Petricka 8) Rienzo 9) Johnson 10) Walters Hernandez and Doyle have opened a lot of eyes with their surprising performances. Maybe Hernandez ultimaely ends up in the pen, but 2-3 weeks ago Quintana was a non-entity almost. Similar to Santiago's rise last year. Stewart should also be another name under consideration, although technically he's no longer a rookie. Edited June 1, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 31, 2012 -> 09:33 PM) Maybe Hernandez ultimaely ends up in the pen, but 2-3 weeks ago Quintana was a non-entity almost. You crack me up. How is this one sentence? Neither part has anything to do with the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 31, 2012 -> 09:30 PM) See Nathan Jones and Hector Santiago. Except of course those are entirely different situations. Santiago was 23 last season when they had him starting, had only about 250 innings at that point, and was only just touching AA. Also, he's seen as a guy who may actually start later. Jones had less than 200 IP at the point they had him start are W-S in 2010, and was 24 years old, and went back to relief work for AA. Shirek is the opposite - 500+ innings, three years older, starting all along. The situations are really nothing alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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