TaylorStSox Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 I can't take a thread seriously that includes Masset and Holmberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 QUOTE (Papa Tru @ May 30, 2012 -> 08:20 PM) All you did was name players that those teams let walk away from them, our numbskull GM TRADES these players away for nothing in return. We really are a poorly run organization that lucked into a World Series in 05 which has kept this awful GM in office ever since. This is such a meatball thing to say. Prospects are probabilities. Gio's value at the time was not what it is at his ceiling, it's the average of all possible outcomes. More often than not, hard throwing lefties with major control issues become relievers. Occasionally, they hit their absolute ceilings and become frontline starters. KW traded lottery tickets for established talent, which was what he needed at the time. Oakland bought lottery tickets at the cost of established talent, which made more sense for them at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Apr 9, 2013 -> 05:20 PM) This is such a meatball thing to say. Prospects are probabilities. Gio's value at the time was not what it is at his ceiling, it's the average of all possible outcomes. More often than not, hard throwing lefties with major control issues become relievers. Occasionally, they hit their absolute ceilings and become frontline starters. KW traded lottery tickets for established talent, which was what he needed at the time. Oakland bought lottery tickets at the cost of established talent, which made more sense for them at the time. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 I forgot Hudson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 9, 2013 -> 05:29 PM) No. Uh... touche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Gio had a solid minor league development pattern when we threw him in the Oakland-Swisher deal. He was major league ready when Oakland got him. Bad trade, I hated it immediately, but that's old news. But, speaking of that trade, has anyone picked up Ryan Sweeney after the Bosox cut him last month? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 QUOTE (oldsox @ Apr 9, 2013 -> 08:39 PM) Gio had a solid minor league development pattern when we threw him in the Oakland-Swisher deal. He was major league ready when Oakland got him. Bad trade, I hated it immediately, but that's old news. But, speaking of that trade, has anyone picked up Ryan Sweeney after the Bosox cut him last month? He wasnt ready yet, he only had a cup of coffee at the major league level in 08 and in 09 he had a 5.75 ERA after he got called up in late June. Gio was an extremely valuable chip that got the Sox a good player in Thome and a bustout in Swisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Don't forget Faustino DeLosSantos, haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickofypres Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Apr 9, 2013 -> 02:58 PM) Another interesting thing to think about was the Torii Hunter situation of 2008. The White Sox were coming off a miserable 2007 campaign and were in the desperate need for an upgrade in the OF. The White Sox pretty much had Hunter signed until the Angels swooped in last minute to offer him a ridiculous deal the he couldn't refuse. If the White Sox sign Hunter, they do not trade for Swisher and essentially keep Gio. I always think about that too. Hunter instead of Swisher probably doesn't have that mental weakness vs the Twins in the late 2000s. Assuming Hunter didn't have a bad 2008 like Swish, they probably don't play a game 163, even with TCQ going down. QUOTE (flavum @ Apr 9, 2013 -> 02:59 PM) Good chance we don't have Sale now either. True that. Edited April 10, 2013 by whitesox901 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 QUOTE (oldsox @ Apr 9, 2013 -> 08:39 PM) Gio had a solid minor league development pattern when we threw him in the Oakland-Swisher deal. He was major league ready when Oakland got him. Bad trade, I hated it immediately, but that's old news. But, speaking of that trade, has anyone picked up Ryan Sweeney after the Bosox cut him last month? Sweeney is in Triple-A for the Cubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 If we didn't trade Gio, we would have never been able to draft Derrick Rose. /thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 QUOTE (whitesox901 @ Apr 9, 2013 -> 10:17 PM) I always think about that too. Hunter instead of Swisher probably doesn't have that mental weakness vs the Twins in the late 2000s. Assuming Hunter didn't have a bad 2008 like Swish, they probably don't play a game 163, even with TCQ going down. True that. It would also be nice to imagine we had the horses to trade for Miggy Cabrera and didn't cast Jim Thome adrift in the ill-fated Kotsay/Jones experiment. Brian Anderson develops or Chris Young doesn't need to be traded for pitching. Joe Borchard becomes a star and there's no pressing need for Thome and/or Swisher from the LH side. Theoretically, we could have gotten away with Torii Hunter in CF, even though at that point he was more of a corner guy...especially after some of the injuries. In terms of ability, we haven't let many go that stand out, especially position players. Michael Morse is one, but he was years and PED's away from being a success at the time of the Garcia deal. Hudson, obviously. Brandon McCarthy, although that worked well for the Sox until recently. Clayton Richard...although we'll see how he does with the shortened fences. Frank Francisco, when he wasn't throwing chairs or acting like a lunatic. Getz has done okay with KC but he's more of a utility guy on a very good team. Jury's still out on Cris Carter, another hitter in the "all or nothing" Tyler Flowers mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Harrell ought to fit somewhere on that list, even if he only is with the Stros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 QUOTE (whitesox901 @ Apr 9, 2013 -> 01:42 PM) For me, it's hard to say because I believe in the butterfly effect in baseball. Just because he figured it out in Oakland, doesn't mean he would have figured it out in Chicago. Given the record pitchers have here, odds say he does, but you never really know. You can almost the same thing about Swisher. He has worked out in Oakland & New York, but he didn't in Chicago. He had the worst season of his career by far for the Sox. If he puts up his normal numbers, maybe he stays a few years at his then lower salary and the trade looks differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 30, 2012 -> 06:26 PM) Since the Sox brutalized the Phillies in the Garcia trade, I never really think about what could have been with Gio. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Gonzalez and Sale are the only impact players that K-Dub drafted in 12 years, and he didn't know what he had in the former. Just in case people are wondering why the current product is hot garbage.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Apr 10, 2013 -> 11:01 PM) Gonzalez and Sale are the only impact players that K-Dub drafted in 12 years, and he didn't know what he had in the former. Just in case people are wondering why the current product is hot garbage.... Yet, they have been able to use those very minor league players to get pretty much the entire roster assembled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Apr 10, 2013 -> 10:01 PM) Gonzalez and Sale are the only impact players that K-Dub drafted in 12 years, and he didn't know what he had in the former. Just in case people are wondering why the current product is hot garbage.... KW was also in charge of the minor league system from 1995-2000. So you have to include the likes of Mark Buehrle, Aaron Rowand, Joe Crede, Chris Young, Jon Rauch (once one of the top pitching prospects in baseball before his labrum injury), Brandon McCarthy, Clayton Richard, Michael Morse and Daniel Hudson. Some pretty impactful players there. Not to mention he brought in the likes of Esteban Loaiza, Jose Contreras, Bobby Jenks, Alexei Ramirez, Tadahito Iguchi and Sergio Santos for free, virtually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 11, 2013 -> 08:33 AM) Yet, they have been able to use those very minor league players to get pretty much the entire roster assembled. White Sox management is kind of the opposite of Bulls management. Very savvy with trades and contract negotiations. Can't draft worth a hot s***. Bulls management will strike gold on a late first-round prospect who develops into a solid rotation player then overpay him, then refuse to trade some overrated low-ceiling player when an impact player is available for trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I've been paying attention to Liptak's thread on WSI about the Sox philosophy. He's been doing a lot of investigating on attendance and other things. His conclusion is much like mine. The organization needs to be gutted from the top. New ownership is needed. So many things keep in place with no success. A new approach is needed and Hahn may not be part of that either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Apr 16, 2013 -> 02:18 PM) I've been paying attention to Liptak's thread on WSI about the Sox philosophy. He's been doing a lot of investigating on attendance and other things. His conclusion is much like mine. The organization needs to be gutted from the top. New ownership is needed. So many things keep in place with no success. A new approach is needed and Hahn may not be part of that either. LOL. You cant fire the owner, so if you dont like it, too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 16, 2013 -> 02:27 PM) LOL. You cant fire the owner, so if you dont like it, too bad. I think what he's saying is, it's now a Bill Wirtz-like waiting game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 QUOTE (flavum @ Apr 16, 2013 -> 02:30 PM) I think what he's saying is, it's now a Bill Wirtz-like waiting game. Except that comparing Jerry Reinsdorf to Bill Wirtz is a bit like comparing a kitten to a hungry tiger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 16, 2013 -> 02:48 PM) Except that comparing Jerry Reinsdorf to Bill Wirtz is a bit like comparing a kitten to a hungry tiger. 7 World Championships kinda factors in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 16, 2013 -> 02:48 PM) 7 World Championships kinda factors in here. Reinsdorf cares about making profit and being ultra-loyal to people that either do a bad job, or were part of 2005. I'm glad 2005 happened, but in my opinion, what is happening now and in the last few years is a result of hanging on to 2005 too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.